Wenger: the man, the mystery

RedDevilCanuck

I admire Wenger for trying to develop a squad with young players.

Unfortunately the game has changed so much that it just doesn't work anymore.

United and barca have the best mix of developing players and buying expensive players when needed.

SteveJ

God knows if the story told in the link posted below is genuine but, if so, it sheds new light on events at the Emirates:

More:
Arsenal Times - Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive

Lance Uppercut

The board wants him to spend money?

SteveJ

Ok then - it sheds old light on events at the Emirates.

rcoobc

Whether it is true or not, it speaks a lot of truth. Up until now Arsenal have managed to challenge for the league without paying the kind of wages and spending the money on players that Manchester United, Chelsea, City and Liverpool have done. This was in the knowledge that even if they fail to win the League they would remain in Europe and have a good chance of winning that too.

Now however they are at risk of slipping out of the Champions League and with it those revenue streams. So is it better to spend money and make certain of the Champions League spots or risk it, and keep the club on the well run course that it is currently on, where the players aren't paid wages that will break the club, and players are brought through.

The sad thing is, it is not Arsenal's fault that they plan isn't working, the likes of Chelsea who knocked them down to 3rd place pay crazy money on players from funds taken from their sugar daddy. Manchester City have done exactly the same and knocked them down to 4th. Had Financial Fair Play been around 10 years ago, and applied to every club in the Premier League we would not be talking about Arsenal being in a crisis, and everyone's wages would be less.

SteveJ

I'm not sure whether it's authentic info or an attempt to take some of the heat off AW.

peterstorey

I doesn't make any sense, Gazidis does the wage negotiations for recruit and retain so he more than anyone knows the state of the market.

SteveJ

Cheers, Pete. I was hoping an Arsenal fan would take a look & let us know what he thought of the info.

MikeUpNorth

I think everyone except the very deluded know the game is up at Arsenal. The best players have left or are looking to leave and they are being outmanoeuvred and outbid in the transfer market; they're down to the bare bones and the formerly heralded manager is increasingly looking like a mug.

peterstorey

I didn't have you down as a Sun reader Mike.

Fiskey

I think the article makes a lot of sense, what parts don't you think make sense? The fact that Gazidis does the wage negotiations does not in any way discredit the article.

Bryan_Munich

2 wins in the last 13 Premier League games for Arsenal.

The wheels have come off for Wenger.

Jopub

The 'game' has been up on Wenger for the last 5 years and how anybody has only recently seen that is a complete mystery to me

Devilton

Wenger will resign this year...

I'm always right

Nar.

The "demise" of Arsenal is being massively over-hyped and we're all getting sucked into it.

Come Sept 1st I think they'll have something resembling:


Schenzy

Sagna Jagielka Vermaelen Gibbs

Song Wilshere

Nasri/Hazard Arshavin

RVP


And that's a very good team.

Devilton

It it happens I'll revise my earlier statement...

But I don't see them getting better this year. Or finshing in the top 4.

In fact, I have Spurs finishing above them.

Devilton

Personally think it'll be a sad day when Wenger goes...

All said and done I respect what he has tried to do at Arsenal.

Tried being the operative word.

It's just that football has changed in the last decade and what worked for SAF simply can't work when you have 2-3 clubs with sugar daddies and the Barca's and Reals of the world which have a favorable tax system and disproportionate TV revenues trying to poach your best players.

crappycraperson

No it has not because for last 5 years Wenger has kept you in the CL.

His criminal mistake has been to not push on from that. Last season should have been the watershed moment for your lot instead it will be the season which will probably start the decline IMO.

You will be in contention for top 4 because of talent lik Wilshire, Ramsey and RVP. But I think there is a strong possibility if you miss out this time, it may be a while before you get back in. City, United and Chelsea are there to stay in top 4. Liverpool if they make it while build on with more investment.

Heardy

Assuming you mean Nasri or Hazard, depending if Nasri is sold, that's only 10 players.

Otherwise, I agree that their demise is being overplayed by the media, and they'll still compete for Top 4.

It isn't however, good enough to compete for the League title IMO.

I'm always right

Yep, Nasri or Hazard. I got confused there and counted both, tough to put an 11th player in though as I think that's where they come short, Ramsey, Walcott, Chamakh... I don't know which you'd pick, none of them jump out do they?

Yep, agree with that.

marjen

Anyone else think Wenger would actually have succeeded with his project if the financial fair play regulations had been present about 10 years ago? At least would have gotten a lot more success without Chelsea/City!

Jopub

No

The 'watershed' moments have arrived with regularity from 2005 onwards and only a complete fuckwit would not have seen where this would lead to

To be repetitive though, the things that would have put this right have never cost 80 million or needed huge resources - just simple prudent defensive acquisition and management.

Wenger although deep down knowing this and no doubt being told it by various 'assistants' who's expertise would be 'defensive' based - has chosen chosen to ignore it

In years to come it will be a lesson to those in football management of how not to allow formidable creative attacking and technical players to blossom whilst overlooking the simple defensive necessities required to meet the needs of a 'winning mentallity ' in the modern game

Rocket science?............... it is not

mariachi-19

No. You simply cannot get rid of all your title winning players and replace them with youth. Busby, Ferguson, Shankly etc, all realized that a dynasty needs to be built of success. Winning breeds winning. You cannot entrust a team full of 20 year olds to do your bidding. They're not mentally capable of the pressure cooker hence the reason Fergie has always integrated his youth policy with a fine variety of experienced players. At first it was the likes of Robson, Cantona, Bruce, Palister for the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Neville, Beckham. Then it was those lot for O'Shea, Ronaldo, Rooney, Fletcher. Now its those plus a few ring ins for the current crop.

marjen

But Adebayor, Nasri, Clichy, Toure, Cole etc wouldn't have left if money didn't come calling in the first place, at least not to their domestic rivals.

mufcwarm92

The end is most certainly nigh for old Arsene.

rcoobc

Yup tottally agree,

I'm not going to say that Chelsea and City have ruined football, or that what they are doing is cheating, they've played the game as the rules let them, but they have caused a spiral of higher wages which, in my mind, has taken away most of the good they have done such as plugging in millions of pounds into football clubs around Europe.

peterstorey

I always had you down as a Sun reader.

MikeUpNorth

You can't read anything with your head in the sand Pete...

Seriously though, Wenger's policy of youth development only makes any sense if you can retain those players as they reach their peak. If you develop good players only to have them leave when they reach their early-mid twenties, then you'll never win anything. You've become Ajax.

Donkey's Ears

I think people are being very kind about Gibbs, Song and Arshavin.

Plus if we were relying on a 19-year old the way Arsenal will be, everyone would be pointing out the dangers.

Jopub

Course I do, no use reading just the Guardian, the times etc and think only they tell the truth now is it

What do you read then Pete that makes you so confident that that paper exclusively tells you the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

I think I've got it - you must read something that tells the story of a Frenchman who came and saw and conquered the PL for 20 years.. oops sorry I mean 5 yrs and then of course the remaining 15 years were 'plans'

Do you at all feel a bit silly still fighting Wenger's corner whilst it all crumbles around us?

sincher

Big 10 days for Arsenal, as everyone is saying.

I think they'll get past Udinese, lose to us, and sign one player. Not so sure Nasri will leave now - whether or not he does could be crucial to whether or not they stay in the top four come the end of the season. Can't see them challenging for the title or anything silly like that though - the squad is light, even if the youngsters are good, which they probably are.

BaldwinLegend

Do you not feel silly flailing Wenger when you appear to be completely ignorant of all the mitigating circumstances at your club?

Where would Arsenal have been the last couple of years without Wenger? I certainly don't think they'd have challenged as much as they have done the last 2-3 seasons without him.

I feel for him actually - he'd have more credit amongst fans if he'd won the Carling Cup last year and he was unlucky not to do so, he's been unlucky this summer with Nasri and Fabregas both jumping ship, and he makes a fair point when he says the signings he's already made this summer will all contribute this season, given time.

Why don't you hold fire till September 1st?

Jopub

Are you serious "mitigating circumstances"
What ones were those that stopped him replacing a comedy goalkeeper for 6 fking years...please


I'd say had we broke the bank and got hold of say Hiddink 4 years ago he'd have sorted out the defence in two minutes flat and carried on the good creative attacking work and we'd have probably have won two titles and a major cup of some kind and we'd now be siting as a club that players want to stay at and players want to be a part of. Even if we had won nothing i'm sure we'd have a bunch that would not cave in at the first sight of February March every year


He's part of why there was no Carling cup win or anything else - too much mouthing off of the players beforehand arrogance and a pretty predicatable result when you have no bollocks to back it up - a Wenger trademark

There's been a lot of September the 1sts since 2005

misterredmist

In support of Wenger:

Not many Clubs have moved to new stadia and had it work out on the pitch, straight off anyway : Middlesbrough, Southampton, Leicester and Coventry spring to mind. The Bitters , who were gifted their Stadium, were rudderless , pennyless going under financially and in the depths of despair with Stuart Pearce and his non-scoring sky blues until the Thai and then the Arabs descended to the rescue.

So Arsenal have competed and not been in any "danger" of not being in the Top 4, until now. Wages wise, they are 5th in the list on last current figures I have seen, at £111m per annum, against Chavski at £174mpa, City £133mpa, United £132mpa and The Bindippers at £121mpa - as a %age of turnover, I estimate that ours and Arsenal's figures for wages are pretty similar.

To add to the melting pot

a) ourselves and Arsenal were competing for the Title over a 7 year period, up until 2004, by which time Abromovich changed the landscape by the arrival of his Olygarch kitty at Stamford Bridge and City have just recently done the same. With a resurgent Liverpool, the competion has got stiffer for AW and Arsenal.

b) Wenger used to have his own "secret" stash of unpolished "diamonds" from France and French colonial Africa - this source seems to have dried to a trickle now as other Clubs have cast their nets worldwide to compete for emerging talents.

So I have no doubt that he still remains an excellent manager and Arsenal would struggle to replace him, it's just that he and the Club have exposed themselves financially at a time when the competition got that much stiffer with two Clubs basically able to blow all the competion out of the water with unlimited energy dollars.

Anti-Wenger:

My own opinion, is he's a very stubborn man, and, he's treated the Arsenal Stadium "project" and re-financing as if it were his own money, and has failed to fill some glaringly obvious shortcomings in his team from both personnel and leadership points of view.

Not only that, but his belief in his young generation of players has been a total tunnel vision policy, to the exclusion of all other options, and he's yet to wake up and smell the coffee on that one.

I have great admiration for him in the manner he wants his teams to play, it's preferable to a lot that's on offer at other Clubs.

AlwaysRedwood

He's like someone's grandmother walking around a department store looking at the prices and saying 'Oh, that's too much. Those were only 4 pounds when I was a girl."

They need Scott Parker. They will offer West Ham 2 million. West Ham will respond with a laugh and say try over 10. Wenger will offer 2.5 million. Then the transfer window will close. Same as with Schwartzer last summer. Because he's an insane old woman with no grasp on the modern game.

Grinner

Some baffling comments in here. Hilarious even.

Do let me know which currently available managers would do better than Wenger.

adexkola

I agree. This place gets retarded at times

Grinner

Scott Parker to save Arsenal!

Christ...maybe in the Graham era.

alastair

Very few would have rivalled him over the last few years. That said, if there is no investment in the squad between now and the end of the season when there is clearly money available, surely other managers could do better than him, because they might have signed some players who would improve us. I'm really playing devil's advocate, because I'm behind Wenger and I generally agree with you.

Grinner

Doesn't matter who is managing, we cannot compete with City, the Chavs and Man U on wages and transfer fees yet. As long as AW keeps delivering CL football and keeps making money in the transfer market then that's good enough for me.

This isn't the 90's when all we had to do was beat Man U. Like it or not we are down the pecking order. Do you really want grubby Usmanov millions or some other twat funding ridiculous transfers and wages that may or may not make us competetive? I don't.