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#1 (permalink) | |
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First Team Regular
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Behind my
Posts: 10,189
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What next for Liverpool?
Hopefully we all enjoyed the last few weeks of Liverpool's season. 7th is simply a disgraceful return for such a great club given all the resources they have enjoyed the past few years. Frankly, its a complete disgrace.
If the Scouse fans were not so full of themselves, perhaps even we United fans would think it tragic that a genuinely great club seems to be falling apart at the seams. And it really is falling apart for them. The article below is a very good summation of the problems and challenges that they face ahead. Instead of the normal piss take and the banter that exists between RedCafe & RAWK I thought it was worth starting a serious thread on what RedCafe thinks are the reasons for Liverpool's failings:
I was with some strategy consultant friends over the weekend and we spent a few hours trying to dissect the 'Liverpool problem' and see just how one might resurrect the club if we approached it like another business and the scary thing was, none of us knew where to start. They just have so many interlinked problems .... they have fallen into a rotten business model of diminishing returns and the wheels have just fallen off! So what lies next for Liverpool? Quote:
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#4 (permalink) |
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iPete
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: http://bit.ly/9aS6f9
Posts: 3,114
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They only way back in to top 4 is the long way. No short cuts. They have to accept the fact that they simply are not top 4 material anymore. Build up slowly from the ground. That means deconstructing what there is at the moment
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#5 (permalink) |
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WUM Alert!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Obertans #1 fan.
Posts: 4,958
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They're doing well to spend the money on players like Shelvey and Wilson from Rangers. These players will hopefully (from thier point of view) take the place of bizarre signigns like Degen and Gonzalez in the past who've been bought for pittance, but already in thier prime and aren't going to get better. By focussing on youth who will make mistakes but blooom into decent players, they have a decent enough strategy.
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#6 (permalink) |
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All I want for Easter is a tagline
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: rubber dinghy rapids!
Posts: 35,480
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It very much depends on what happens over the summer. If they get some mega rich Arabs buying them and throwing money around they'll be back at the sharp end in no time. They are, no matter what our feelings towards them are, a club with history and the right image around Europe to attract big names. However if the Americans are unable to sell then they will be stuck in mid table mediocrity for a good while to come while those around them improve their squads.
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#8 (permalink) |
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WUM Alert!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Obertans #1 fan.
Posts: 4,958
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The thing is they really aren't a great prospect for buying, cost to much, a lot of money needed in the squad, a whole new ground needed soon. A very average team like Stoke or Wolves must seem like a much better purchase.
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#10 (permalink) |
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Brewlio's fugly sister
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Top is a humourless cunt. There, I said what everyone else was thinking.
Posts: 25,339
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Getting new owners is far from a done deal for Liverpool. They've had a few consortiums sniffing around them for a while, but there hasn't been a bid, which probably tells you everything you need to know. They need a new stadium, and massive investment in the team. It may take longer than Liverpool fans would hope to get out from under this mess.
To add to that, if they can't offload Benitez to another team, they're going to have to spend big money to pay him off. What manager would want to go into that sort of situation? I can see O'Neill leaving Villa this summer, and if he does, he might well be the sort of appointment they'd try to make. |
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#11 (permalink) | |
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,874
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Quote:
It's all dependent on the future of Torres/Gerrard/Benitez/the sale of the club. If all goes against them they are truly fucked.
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#12 (permalink) |
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Formerly RedAddict
Join Date: May 2008
Location: We can't stop here. This is bat country.
Posts: 8,772
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Maybe they need to accept that this might be their level.
I keep hearing stuff about Liverpool being a great club, and that they deserve better. Do they? Almost 20 years of constant failure and massive spending. Surely it could only go on so long before the arse fell out of it. A bit less hysteria, and a bit more acceptance of reality. |
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#18 (permalink) |
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Reserve Team Player
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,182
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They are in a bit of a bind. The best way out would be to negotiate Benitez's departure, bring in a proper manager, and sell Torres to fund 3-4 very good players for the new gaffer. But shhhh. Pray that this doesn't happen.
K.R.A.P! |
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#20 (permalink) |
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Being watched; will learn to post in the correct forum
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Gloves are worn for traction primarily. Someone like Evra needs them for good throw-ins when it's raining or snowing or the ball is damp. Kaka, might wear them because he get's fouled a lot. Scraping and cutting his hands on frozen pitches
Posts: 27,234
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The one in the city centre is the biggest one, but there is a smaller Next in the south west.
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#22 (permalink) |
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Being watched; will learn to post in the correct forum
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Gloves are worn for traction primarily. Someone like Evra needs them for good throw-ins when it's raining or snowing or the ball is damp. Kaka, might wear them because he get's fouled a lot. Scraping and cutting his hands on frozen pitches
Posts: 27,234
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It's not pride, it's me, I won't let them.
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#24 (permalink) | ||
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Attention Whoring Common Crow
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Red till i'm dead..
Posts: 30,375
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Quote:
Quote:
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#26 (permalink) |
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Caf Nostradamous 2008
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Near to nowhere, in the suburbs of Amnesia.
Posts: 7,465
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I'm not convinced that next year will be as bad for Liverpool. I think it was a blip, in the same way that the previous season's 2nd place was a blip th other way. I think they will be challenging City for 4th next season, maybe also Spurs if 'arry can motivate them again - but I don't see them finishing below Villa or any other team.
Whether the current position is Benitez's fault or not is a matter of opinion, but the one thing Liverpool need to do is to replace him because a new manager with fresh ideas will galvanise the existing players. I just think the owners are waiting for someone to make an offer so they don't have to pay his huge severance bonus. I still don't see him there at the start of next season. |
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#27 (permalink) | |
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Fending Off the Urge
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Quote:
But this bad season can have a domino effect for years to come. You hear it 2nd. |
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#28 (permalink) |
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Promised an Avatar, got a Tag Line!
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Over the Hill
Posts: 8,553
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For a start they need to get rid of the american owners. They are one cause of the Rot.
The manager is another, For all that some fans love him the fact is he has spent ALOT of money and all he has to show for it is a couple of cups, and the 2005 CL win was with Houlliers team if you ask me. Then the squad needs a complete overhaul. Gerrard , torres and mascherano and the keeper reina are the only ones worth keeping the rest need to go. David Ngog....Please. Saying that I cant see Torres staying too long more, one more rubbish season and he is off.....thats if he even stays past the summer Its basically goiong to be a long road back for them and as mentioned unless they get a billionaire to start throwing money in I fear for them I really do. |
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#29 (permalink) | |
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Doesn't post on a United Forum...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,311
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Quote:
Without new owners who can pay off their debts, I doubt Liverpool will be able to strengthen their squad and may well even have to sell one or more of their better players |
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#31 (permalink) |
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First Team Regular
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Behind my
Posts: 10,189
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what a stupid stupid idea! I mean what is the point of that? Its a complete waste of space, money and effort. Just build one mega stadium, make it the best in Britain if ego's are getting in the way and be done with it. This proposal smells of someone smoking some hot shit!
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#32 (permalink) |
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Reserve Team Player
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"For the second successive year, the auditors, KPMG, expressed "material uncertainty" about Liverpool's ability to continue as a going concern." '
Holy feck, I work at an accounting firm myself, such auditor's reports are rare, this is really, really bad... unbelievable that it has come to this... lets hope for liverpool football club that there's some rich arab wondering what to do with his money... |
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#33 (permalink) |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,227
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Things look pretty dire for Liverpool. Of course it's difficult to get a real grasp of what the real numbers are at this point. Here's an attempt:
2007 - Club sold to H&G for £218.9m 2010 - Club reports debt of £472.5m BBC SPORT | Football | My Club | Liverpool | US pair agree Liverpool takeover Liverpool pile up losses as group debts soar to £473m | Liverpool - Times Online So over the course of 3 years they have more than doubled (216%) the debt, assuming the original purchase was 100% borrowed. From what I remember H&G borrowed something like £340m at the start. What were the banks thinking? For whatever its worth, Forbes recently ranked Liverpool as having a value of US$822 (£556.5m). Soccer Team Valuations - Forbes.com So whatever the true value of Liverpool is, they need someone to come in and pay that value in cash. Then borrow against the club in order to build the stadium they so desperately need. On top of all this there are the managerial and player uncertainties, and a backdrop of a Europa League campaign starting in late-July. I suppose its not out of the question they could find someone to buy the club and invest in the stadium, presuming that whatever purchase price is paid is reasonable. |
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#34 (permalink) |
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First Team Sub
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,227
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Damn the football press are woeful at reporting financial information. After much digging I was able to find some basic information that is of interest, Liverpool's operating numbers (all numbers in £millions).
Operating Revenue 2007/08 - 159.1 2008/09 - 177.3 Change = +18.2 (11%) Operating Costs 2007/08 - (148.9) 2008/09 - (193.4) Change = (44.5) (30%) Operating Profit/(Loss) 2007/08 - 10.2 2008/09 - (16.1) Change = (26.3) Liverpool accounts: wages soar past £100m, losses £55m, debt up to £378m (and the bank needed paying in March) Sporting Intelligence First thing that jumps out is the growth in costs of 30%. Where the hell they spent that money is a mystery to me. Following on from that, Liverpool are reporting an Operating Loss of 16.1 million, which is a surprise considering this is all before interest and player sales/purchases. The numbers for this year (replacing the Champs League with Europa and the 7th place finish) will be worse I would think. The numbers for next year with no Champs League only Europa and whatever their league position winds up being could be ugly. |
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#35 (permalink) |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: I dont exist. I'm just a figment of your imagination.
Posts: 2,625
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What went wrong? One word. Rafa. His decisions were awful, in last 2 seasons. The keane episode, Alonso's sale, worthless buys, He has wasted so much money...and no wonder the owners are having doubts on backing him up, debt or not.
Nest season depends on whether they keep Torres or not. I can only see a further drop, it they do sell...and it will definitely be followed by Stevie G sooner or later and that the proverbial last straw. Goodbye Liverpool. |
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#36 (permalink) |
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Reserve Team Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: In the wilderness
Posts: 3,792
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If getting new, rich owners was all it took to get into the big time then City would have done it this season. It's not as simple as that. Liverpool also need Rafa, or a new manager, to perform. They are facing a distinctly tricky future.
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#37 (permalink) |
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Reserve Team Player
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: If I had to choose between sleeping with Miss World, or score against Liverpool from 40 yards, it would have been a difficult choice. Thankfully, I've done the both - Best
Posts: 1,086
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I thought about this a lot too. Because they have fallen a long way, Tottenham and Manchester City both have better squads IMO. I think the road back to the top 4 might be a long one. Its a club with a lot of dept, a handful of great players.
Reminds me of Leeds United... Lots of world beaters, lots of debt, they are sitting on a half financed new stadium.. Far away from getting a important Champions League income witch equals £30-60m+... Hicks and Gilett will want the same amounts they put in, preferably keep the debt at Liverpool, etc. I think Liverpool are in big trouble right now. |
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#38 (permalink) |
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From Barca to Orient - back down to earth with a bang
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: "Thomas..It's up for grabs now - Thomas, right at the end"
Posts: 4,531
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If they dont get in a new and decent manager to put some basic stuff right and quick, and keep Gerrard and Torres then they are fked - maybe for ten years or more imo
After all the blarney and hot air telling Everton "we are bigger than youse" and wont share a ground they'll be begging to share in 5 years should this carry on ! Nice one Rafa |
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#39 (permalink) |
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Reserve Team Player
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Seoul, South Korea
Posts: 2,584
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Liverpool's problem is the burden of high expectations.
I think that they need to imitate Arsenal's approach to cultivating young players on the pitch and hope that some investor with deep pockets buys the club off the pitch. |
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