Would an all time Scotland XI beat an all time England XI

Melbourne Red

Not many people would have ever thought it was possible, but time and time again, throughout the decades, Scotland have often overcome seemingly insurmountable odds and managed to be even more rubbish than England are.

All this aside though, the fact remains that for such a tiny nation they have produced an extraordinary number of top class footballers.

Conspicuously absent from every all time greatest list ever compiled on the Caf are Kenny Dalglish and Graeme Souness. The latter I'm led to believe was some sort of midfield superhero hybrid who combined the dynamism of Steven Gerrard, Deco's passing, Roy Keane's inspirational leadership and Vinnie Jones' thuggery. Meanwhile Kenny Dalglish is universally regarded as Liverpool's greatest ever player, which takes some doing when you remember that we're England's most successful club (18 League Titles 5 European Cups).

Throw in Jimmy Johnstone, who Celtic fans regard as their greatest player despite King Kenny's having played there thereby making him greater than the greatest player to play at England's most successful club (18/5) and you've got 3 players who could match any 3 players that any other country could lay claim to.

Beyond those three you've got names like Billy Bremner, John White, Dave Mackay, Alan Hansen, Ian St.John, not to mention United legend Dennis Law, whom unfortunately only long-time United fans like Jasonrh can claim to know much much about (he's his favourite player you know!).

All up, that's 8 of the finest players ever to grace a football pitch. Unfortunately only one of these players is a defender, and that's where this otherwise fantastic idea for a thread could fall to pieces. This is where you knowledgable caftards enter the fray, first in finding 3 more players to complete the Scotland line-up as well as players I've missed, then in naming your all time England line-up before finally leading an intelligent and well-informed discussion of the question contained in the thread title.

Failing that, let's just have another greatest ever XI thread where loads of nameless gimps post names in formation.

Partizan

Slim Jim Baxter was wonderful midfielder, with the silkiest of skills. Pity the bottle cut his career short.

Melbourne Red

Yeah I was about to mention him but decided against it in case anyone decided to trot out the 'he never played in a decent league' arguement. Same thing could be levelled at Johnstone though.

Melbourne Red

But really the Scotland XI needs 3 more defenders and a goalkeeper.

Melbourne Red

Wasn't Eddie Gray from Scotland as well?

We may ultimately need to employ a 1-8-3 formation with no goalkeeper.

Ixion

Alex McLeish was alright wasn't he, played under Sir Alex at Aberdeen, won loads of Caps.

And obviously the mighty Andy Goram in net!

FranklyVulgar

Alex McLiesh and Willie Miller were the defensive partnership for aberdeen that won the league beat Madrid under SAF.

Jim Baxter is def worth a mention, Pele said he could have been brazillian.

It's just a shame that all the truely class scottish players are from years ago. I'd love it if a few more scottish lads could have the class of the old boys.

John Grieg is another defender for the team.

Plechazunga

What about our own Buchan and McQueen?

And Sandy Jardine...

Melbourne Red

How do you reckon these names stack up against an all time England list?

Gio

Danny McGrain was widely regarded as the best right-back in the world during the mid-to-late 1970s.

Ferguson said Willie Miller was the best penalty-box defender he has ever seen.

And certainly Goram in goals.

Xander45

Then again an all time Englan XI with the likes of Banks, Moore, Charlton, Greaves, Edwards, Hoddle, Robson, Shearer, Linekar, Gascoigne, Beckham, Barnes and so on would give 'em a game and a half.

For Scotland, how bout McCoist, and Colin Hendry? Both great players in their day.

golden_blunder

Leighton was a better goalkeeper than Goram, and certainly better than a lot of people give him credit for

golden_blunder

Maurice Malpas was a handy player too

Melbourne Red

I was a fan of Leighton from what I saw

Melbourne Red

Are this lot actually better than Dalglish, Souness, Johnstone, Bremner, Law, Hansen, White and Mackay though?

Never saw any of them play, I actually want to know.

sincher

Colin Hendry? This is a best ever thread, not most ginger ever.

sincher

Yes, but you're a Liverpool fan so you will have enjoyed him being rubbish for us.

Xander45

Never saw most of them play so can't say for sure. But Greaves' goal scoring record was phenomenal, Hoddle at his best was fantastic and one of the best readers of a game, his passing range was top notch.

Xander45

I smell another thread coming

sincher

You can't actually smell gingers you know. That's noodlist.

Melbourne Red

Only saw him in Scotland internationals tbh. He left United when I was 4.

peterstorey

Redheaded women are supposed to smell the best.

Melbourne Red

They fucking reek when it rains.

CnutOfAllCnuts

As opposed to Mel Red, I am not an old cnut, so can only speak about Dalglish and Souness, and the players more recent than those.

Those two are as good as almost any, if not all, players England have had over the last 20-30 years.

As for goalies, Gordon is the best Scottish goalie I've seen. Which does highlight that Scotland have not been able to display the same quality in goal as England has been able to with Shilton, Clemence and Seaman.

Hansen is another player who is as good as most England defenders over the last 2-3 decades.

But, whereas as Scotland has been able to get through a few top, top class players, they can't compete with England in terms of numbers. Which is natural, considering the size of population.

giggs-beckham

banks

??? ferdinand moore ???

beckham charlton ??? gazza

rooney edwards

(Thats the best i could do from my head)

UnitedRoadRed

Best ever England XI without much consideration:
Banks
Byrne
Moore
Butcher
Sansom
Charlton
Edwards
Matthews
Robson
Lineker
Greaves

That's with no real consideration, just 11 household names and no real thought but it's a starter for ten that would take some outdoing by an all-time Scotland XI that's teetering on the brink of including Goram and Hendry.

Melbourne Red

You've picked Rooney ahead of Gary Lineker and Jimmy Greaves which may understandable if you're young and haven't read much football history but even Michael Owen has scored something like 40 England goals in your lifetime.

Plechazunga

Jesus Christ.

Rams

To be fair McQueen was pretty crap, for us as well.
Buchan was a good player though.
Maybe Baxter & Law were the best Jock players?

Floyd

I don't know where to start.

If that's you doing your best then I'd love to see your worst, for pure entertainment value.

Ramshock

Check out this all time All Ireland XI plus subs

Jennings
Irwin
McGrath
Moran
Sheedy
Roy Keane
Whelan
Brady
Whiteside
Best
Robbie Keane

Given
Stapleton
Houghton
Staunton
McIlroy
O'Leary
Blanchflower

CnutOfAllCnuts

My England XI in my lifetime (basically 80's, 90's and 00's):

---------Shilton--------
Neal-Rio-Butcher-Sansom
Beckham-Robbo-Gazza-Barnes
------Lineker-Shearer

Spoony Youngblood

Butcher was vastly overrated.

CnutOfAllCnuts

Nah, a winner. What he lacked in skills he made up for in attitude.

But, Engand have had quite a few good centrehalves the last couple of decades, so there might be a case for another one alongside Rio.

Melbourne Red

Are we now allowed to draft in players from the other home nations?

In that case, I'm putting John Charles in my Scotland side.

EDIT: Never mind

Spoony Youngblood

A winner? what did he ever win?

He was all hype. The blood flowing from the cut on his head, elevated his status.

Floyd

Was Sansom better than Pearce?

Melbourne Red

'French military victories'

Floyd

For what it's worth, he did say ALL Ireland XI.

Gio

Goram in the early to mid 1990s was on a different level to what Leighton ever achieved, although I agree he was under-rated in some quarters.
I'd have Goram above Seaman as well.