Photos That Shook The World

Diabo_Sam

4th January 2009 - Gaza Strip


and the massacre continues

esmufc10

Berlin: January 16th - 2nd May 1945

The Battle of Berlin was the final major offensive of the European Theater of World War II and was one of the bloodiest battles in human history, with over 1.2m casualties.

RedKaos

Fantastic photos, finishing off the monstrous Nazi machine. 1.2M, quite horrific though. What was the official casualty count in Stalingrad?

esmufc10

Obviously it is nigh on impossible for any of these to be official or accurate, but Stalingrad was the bloodiest battle in human history with close to 2m casualties.

I find war pictures fascinating, particularly those of WWII. The whole of Europe was just a wasteland. Really was a terrible war. And what did we get out of it? The majority of Europe under Soviet control.

RedKaos

I'd like to think we stopped an evil war machine which commited horrible atrocities to 6 million Jews as well as threatening the annihilation of many more people. For all we know we could have been writing and speaking in German.

The Soviet Union was by no means the Angelic messiah of the world, but it was essentially them (Yes mainly them, the Americans DID contribute as well but they did NOT single-handedly win the war as they'd like to think) who turned the war into an Allied advantage.

esmufc10

When it came down to it, the Soviets were just as bad as the Nazis with regards to what they did to civillians. That's why the Germans towards the end wanted the US and Britain to capture Germany as they were shit-scared of the Russians and what they would do to them.

We fought a war for democracy yet left the majority of Europe under Communist control.


I'd agree, none of the 3 Allies single-handedly won the war. They all player their part and there are arguments for and against who were the most important.

Though for me, it was the Soviet Union. The War on the Eastern Front is what crippled the Nazis come 1945.

Nucks

This is going off the top of my head.

This is civilian as well mind you.

The prewar census of stalingrad was around 750k.

After the war there were just a few thousand civilians still residing there. It is slightly misleading however because the vast majority it is suspected actually were able to flee the city. Around 40 thousand civilians died in the initial blitz of the city, the majority of all civilian casualties are believed to have occurred in the first week.

In terms of military casualties, it's hard to nail down. There are really two phases, the first phase is the meat grinder actually IN Stalingrad. The second phase is Operation Uranus and Saturn which resulted in the capture of the German 6th army as well as large Romanian Hungarian and Italian forces. I believe 90k Germans were marched into captivity and 5k or so were repatriated in 1955.

In terms of total casualties for Stalingrad including Uranus and Saturn, you were looking at nearly 3 million combined casualties (killed/wounded).

I've got some solid primary sources around somewhere but I can't break it down as to exactly how many were killed without digging them up.

I do believe MORE soldiers died in Berlin as Stalin ordered the city taken at any cost as quickly as possible.

Nucks

True and untrue at the same time. True in the sense that the Soviets and the Allies all participated. Untrue in the sense that the Soviets turned the war around by themselves and drove the first nails into the coffin of the Nazi war machine alone.

This includes the classic arguments about Lend Lease and the strategic bombing campaign.

esmufc10

I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that Stalin asked his two Generals (Zhukov and Konev) which one would like to capture Berlin. When they both said they each would like to, he simply said "Go." and it turned into a race to see who could capture it first.

I think that partly explains why there were so many military deaths.

RedKaos

IMO 2 key events turned the tide of war.

1) Pearl Harbour - Forced the Americans into the war, they'd previously sat back watching Europe self-destruct.

2) The Battle of Stalingrad - if Stalingrad fell, Russia fell and the Germans would have conquered the eastern front, and would have consequently concentrated their efforts west, possibly leading to an axis victory.

esmufc10

I think the US would have stayed out of Europe was it not for Hitler's decision to declare war on them. They may have joined eventually, but I don't think it would have been as early as 1941.

Their next conquest would have been the Middle-East for the Oil (The thing that crippled them in the end. Romania switching sides and the strategic bombing of Germany's synthetic oil production ultimately cost them. They didn't even have enough fuel to carry out Autumn Mist effectively), and Hitler maybe would have sent more men to try and win in Africa. If that had have happened, god knows how the world would look now.

Kinky Melinky

Stupid fucking bitch.............sorry did I say that too loud ?

utdalltheway

reading that "what if" book right now. have yet to get to WWII but I'm sure all the stuff up above here will be mentioned.

Stalin killed more Russians than the Germans did, apparently.
probably not too many pics of that lying around though.

RedKaos

Depends how you define "killed".

If you mean by personal and deliberate executions then I doubt it, however if you're counting him sending millions of Russians to their deaths both poorly armed and equipped as personal killings, then you might have a point.

Nucks

Well, the war in the east really turned with the first Soviet general counter offensive in Dec-Jan '41/'42.

The three axis of attack, saw one reversed, one stagnate and the third progress till the summer before reversal.

Leningrad stagnated and stalemated.

Moscow was relieved and never threatened again.

The drive for the caucuses stalled out at Stalingrad.

So the Soviets stopped Germany in late 41 and early 42, by late 42 the ball reversed direction and by late 43, early 44 the route was on.

Lend Lease was only approved for the Soviets on Oct 30th I think it was in 1941. The first shipments did not leave until March '42 or thereabouts. Additionally something like 75% of ALL Lend Lease shipments to the Soviet Union arrived in 1945.

The idea that if Stalingrad fell, or Moscow, or Leningrad resulting in the collapse of the country is a fallacy. Stalingrad had virtually zero strategic importance. The General Staff even questioned the purpose of the siege since the oil fields of Baku and the caucuses were more important. Stalingrad was prestigious simply because it had the name of Stalin in it.

Stalin in '41 was prepared to flee Moscow east behind the Urals to continue the war.

Hindsight being 20/20 we can now look back and say fairly reasonably that Germany NEVER could have defeated the Soviet Union. Barbarossa went about as perfectly as could have been expected. Russia was simply too large, there were too many people to reinforce the Red Army and Stalins resolve was too strong to simply throw in the towel.

Of course in the moment it seemed the fate of the world was in the balance but they didn't have the full view that we have now.

utdalltheway

supposedly the Russians lost 20 million people in the war which is imo often overlooked.
I'd have to dig up the number that were killed after the war by Stalin.

Kinky Melinky

I know these photos may be slightly off the point but the story behind these photos is as follows - a narcotics traffic stop on the downtown connector turned deadly when a man climbed over the interstate railing, fell about 35 feet and was decapitated on a wrought-iron fence.

Officers in a marked car stopped the man as he drove south on the interstate above Auburn Avenue. The man, who has not been identified, stopped his vehicle and tried to flee by climbing over the railing, Lt. Danny Agan said.

Police still are investigating whether the man jumped or fell off the raised interstate.

"This is a new one for me in 29 years," Agan said

The decapitation shocked people who work in the neighbourhood. Gary White, an income tax preparer, came out of his office when he heard the commotion. "It's surreal," White said.

Agan said narcotics officers had been trailing the man for much of the day

Agan did not know if the officers who tried to arrest the man would be placed on administrative leave. "This is not something normally covered under the standard operating proceedure of the department," he said

esmufc10

I think it was more like 25m+ casualties for the Russians. Which, when you consider Britain lost only about 400,000 in six years of warfare, is quite staggering.

(I shouldn't say 'only' as it sounds disrespectful to those who died, but it's just to contrast the massive difference between the losses of Britain and the USSR)

Nucks

The purges, collectivism, the liquidation of the Kulaks, and other minority groups.

Yes Stalin killed many more than Hitler killed Jews and it was deliberate, callous and intentional.

I would like to point out that the idea that Soviet soldiers were all underfed, ill-equipped and forced into human wave attacks for fear of the NKVD mowing them down with maxims is a myth.

It happened yes, in Stalingrad for a period of a couple weeks where the fighting was especially desperate and the Germans were on the verge of claiming the entire city. You have to understand the morbid genius of Stalingrad.

It is likely and very probably that the Soviets could have won Stalingrad much sooner but without the decisive victory that it became. Stalin knew that by greasing the pot as it were and feeding just enough men into the battle he could keep the Germans engaged while the vast majority of his manpower amassed on the far side of the Volga for the operations of Uranus and Saturn. Uranus was the immediate encirclement of Stalingrad and Saturn was the attempt to cut off AGS by taking Rostov.

It was a very desperate time and as such men and equipment were limited as they were marshaling as much as they could for these two massive operations.

Other than that singular period I can't think of any other instances where men were being sent into combat without a weapon.

They did use penal battalions to sweep mine fields however. That's some pretty cold shit there.

Sorry I am geeking out a little bit here :P

esmufc10

Carry on Nucks, I find War on the Eastern Front absolutely fascinating. Shame I don't have the chance to study it for my A-Levels but I'll definitely be doing some in-depth reading on it when I get the chance.

And the fact that it is where the majority of the War took place.

Nucks

The Soviets took around 20-25 million casualties in WW2. It was split 60:40ish Civilian and Military depending on the figures you choose to accept.

Soviet civilian casualties were primarily inflicted by the Germans through direct combat action, or death squads. Or due to starvation in occupied territory. Over a million died to starvation in Leningrad alone.

Militarily the Soviets took around 8-10 million military deaths, this is HEAVILY skewed however by the summer of '41 and then the storming of Berlin. For example the Soviets lost almost 4 MILLION soldiers in the opening months of the war. Over 3 million of those soldiers were sent to forced labor camps in Germany where the majority of them were worked to death on a low caloric diet.

Nucks

I've always been extremely interested in WW2 and my studies eventually led me to have an enormous respect and fascination with the Soviet Union and their performance in WW2.

I blame much of the disinterest or lack of understanding on what happened in the east on the guys who wrote the history, namely the same German generals who lost the war. I wouldn't say that they are always intentionally misleading but so much of what was put out and taught and is still being taught is intentionally degrading.

The biggest myth is that the Soviets had limitless manpower and had such a massive numerical superiority that they just launched massive human wave attacks that ultimately overwhelmed the Germans.

The truth is that the Soviets while having more manpower obviously enjoyed at BEST roughly a 2.7:1 ratio of soldiers compared to the Germans. Sizable advantage but what was remarkable is how the Soviets were able amass MASSIVE localized advantages in key battles and operations.

Maskarovka, their art of deception in military applications. What is brilliant is that the Germans were almost always completely bamboozled by what the Soviet dispositions were. In areas the Soviets were planning to attack from, the Germans were reporting decreases in manpower. The biggest reason for this was a trick the Soviets used. During the day they would lazily march their troops AWAY from their destination. During the night they would double time towards it.

In a matter of 4 years the Soviets went from being a backward inept plodding behemoth to being the the foremost military power on the planet both doctrinally and operationally. They took the German blitzkrieg too its logical and ultimate conclusion. Where the Germans used a dagger like approach to breakthroughs and encirclements, the Soviets used a bulldozer to achieve the same, and almost always managed to completely fool the Germans in doing so.

kotler

kotler

true...and compared to gaza beslan is a walk in the park (in terms of scale)

and being a massacre conducted by a state makes it worse

dumbo

Yep, Uncle Joe's boys spilt at least as much blood, yet their sacrifice is not always sufficiently recognised.

It was a team effort though and if the US was the impact sub coming off the bench in the 2nd half, it was the soviets that scored the injury time winner. And I guess that would make Hitler the John Terry figure self destructing in the final moments.

RedKaos

Gaza is accepted, its justified to kill those innocents. Hamas is responsible for civilian casualties.

vanthaman

esmufc10

Hitler self destructed long before the final moments of his life.

He made an unbelievable amount of errors and bad decisions.

RedKaos

iSparky

esmufc10

Romani children in Auschwitz, victims of medical experiments.



Members of the Sonderkommando burn corpses in the fire pits at Auschwitz II-Birkenau.



Polish civilians after execution in Warsaw.



German policemen tormenting a Jew in Rzeszów, Poland.



A child dying in the streets of the crowded Warsaw Ghetto, where hunger and disease killed 43,000 in 1941 alone.

Diabo_Sam

Palestinian Holocaust Museum.

Alex

Why dont you just make your own thread Diablo Sam that would make more sense

idiot

kotler

all of his images are shaking the world currently so he might as well post them here

Alex

He had already started another thread 5 minutes before, I think it is fine for him to post them here, especially had he actually posted the pics.

vijay

Unreal!

esmufc10

Adolf Hitler, at a window of the Reich's Chancellory, receives an ovation from supporters in his first day in office as Chancellor. (January 30, 1933)



1934 Nuremberg rally



Chamberlain, Daladier, Hitler and Mussolini at the Munich Conference



Hitler enters the German populated Sudetenland region of Czechoslavakia in October 1938 which was annexed to Germany proper due to the Munich agreement

cj_sparky

There are some truly shocking images in this thread, the one with the vietcong execution picture is one I have always found so unreal!

Nucks

You gotta hand it to those Nazi's. They sure did nifty parades.

muller

This thread just cost me £20 - just bought 2 Holocaust books and one on the Rape of Naking. I find it all fascinating - how recent it all was and how much it is covered over.