City target Dos Santos

Drifter · 28th May 2008, 11:23

Under Ramos he could go on to be a star.

BaldwinLegend · 28th May 2008, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Get real. I haven't written him off as a player. I've just stated what is obvious to the naked eye. He is not a winger any more. At 34 He clearly struggles out wide more often than not. It isn't a coincidence that his most impressive performances over the last 3 months have all come with him in a more central role. People should start getting used to the idea that his best role on the pitch has finally changed.

Such as? Name one...

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 28th May 2008, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaldwinLegend

Such as? Name one...

The champions league final

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 28th May 2008, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

No Brown is better then Pique simply because Brown is a better defender then Pique. He is faster, more experienced, a better tackler, a better leader, he has better positioning erm he is a better defender. .

Brown isn't a better tackler than Pique. He isn't a better Leader, neither is his positioning better. Anyone who watched him in La Liga and has watched Brown through out his United stay can see this clearly.What Brown is, is much faster and more experienced. That is why he is better. Nothing else.It's the same with Park. He crosses better than Dos santos, has better work rate, makes better decisions, defends better, doesn't ran into blind alleys when dribbling as often all because he is far more experienced. That makes him better. Period. Only if Dos santos was a mature player like Messi was at 18 woud you have a point. But he isn't that way at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

There again we are not talking here about the defense where experience is crucial. We are talking about the flanks where technique, dribbling and pace are much more important.

Experience matters every where. Park has the technique of a decent winger and has the experience too. Dos Santos as a player isn't even close to him ATM. And at a club like United talent alone wont get you a start. You need experience too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

...... Those are the criteria on which a winger is judged on.

Yeah right. A winger is judged mainly on creative end porduct, link up play with the other team members and decision making. Not goals. Do santos' over rall link up play is very average, his end product is erratic at best and his decision making is still poor. All he does best is score goals ATM. Basically Park shits on him as a winger right now. Because Giovanni is too raw. Thus he can't be a better player than Park. This is blatantly obvious

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

In my opinion Id rather have a raw version of Ronaldinho (thats how you have called him) who can develop and become a world class winger rather then a useful but above average winger who have little chance of ever winning a first team place.

Park is not there to win a first team place. He is there to be a quality squad player. In addtion, as I said before we are more than capable of having Park, Dos Santos, Nani and Ronaldo in the same team. But you would rather have a 34-35 year old Giggs on our wing instead of Park. Because you clearly rate him little.

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

And how can you play Dos Santos ahead of Park and Nani if he (in your opinion) is not better then Park?

Because he has more talent and if I was a manager I'd rate talent above experience. That is why I wanted to keep Pique and let Brown leave. This is something you already know very well.. .

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

PS you only agree with those who agree with you.

So what? You are no different.

rooney__10 · 28th May 2008, 15:15

I would probably rather us take zarate on loan then go for dos santos. If we could loan zarate for the year I'd like that.

JCurr · 29th May 2008, 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney__10

I would probably rather us take zarate on loan then go for dos santos. If we could loan zarate for the year I'd like that.

Agree with that fully. Zarate could turn out a cracking little player. Would be a very subtle signing.

devilish · 29th May 2008, 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Brown isn't a better tackler than Pique. He isn't a better Leader, neither is his positioning better. Anyone who watched him in La Liga and has watched Brown through out his United stay can see this clearly.What Brown is, is much faster and more experienced. That is why he is better. Nothing else.It's the same with Park. He crosses better than Dos santos, has better work rate, makes better decisions, defends better, doesn't ran into blind alleys when dribbling as often all because he is far more experienced. That makes him better. Period. Only if Dos santos was a mature player like Messi was at 18 woud you have a point. But he isn't that way at all. Experience matters every where. Park has the technique of a decent winger and has the experience too. Dos Santos as a player isn't even close to him ATM. And at a club like United talent alone wont get you a start. You need experience too.Yeah right. A winger is judged mainly on creative end porduct, link up play with the other team members and decision making. Not goals. Do santos' over rall link up play is very average, his end product is erratic at best and his decision making is still poor. All he does best is score goals ATM. Basically Park shits on him as a winger right now. Because Giovanni is too raw. Thus he can't be a better player than Park. This is blatantly obviousPark is not there to win a first team place. He is there to be a quality squad player. In addtion, as I said before we are more than capable of having Park, Dos Santos, Nani and Ronaldo in the same team. But you would rather have a 34-35 year old Giggs on our wing instead of Park. Because you clearly rate him little. Because he has more talent and if I was a manager I'd rate talent above experience. That is why I wanted to keep Pique and let Brown leave. This is something you already know very well.. . So what? You are no different.

Wes is a better defender then Pique. If that wasnt the case then SAF would have sold Wes and kept the Spaniard. I cannot understand why you rate Wes so poorly. I mean we are talking here about a player (a first teamer in a team capable of making the golden double) with more then 200 appearances with us and more then 17 caps with England. How can you ever compare him with Pique?

I do rate Park. He is a good utility player but he is not first team level. On the other hand Dos Santos has potential to become better then that. Regarding Giggs I apologise for still having faith in a player who will be remembered as one of the best wingers football had ever had. SAF tend to do that same mistake.

Experience is crucial for a goalkeeper and a defender, because you do one mistake in that role and you are fecked. The flank role is different, you are judged on the chances you create and your ability to score goals, in fact both Ronaldo and Giggs won a place when they were very young.

I still cannot understand how you can say that Dos Santos is still inferior to Park but you would still play Park ahead of him.

PS I had just told you that you're right on part of your post.

JCurr · 29th May 2008, 11:01

If Brown's appearance record this season didn't speak for itself, 1-0 to Bolton at the Reebok should've erased any doubt. I reckon Anelka probably sent Pique flowers after that match. And comparing a squad player(Park) to a teenage starlet(Gio) is absolutely lunacy. Give it a rest. FFS, lads.

devilish · 29th May 2008, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCurr

If Brown's appearance record this season didn't speak for itself, 1-0 to Bolton at the Reebok should've erased any doubt. I reckon Anelka probably sent Pique flowers after that match. And comparing a squad player(Park) to a teenage starlet(Gio) is absolutely lunacy. Give it a rest. FFS, lads.

Dos Santos is not a 16 yr old but a 19 year old. He is as old as Anderson who is pretty much one of the best attacking midfielders in the EPL. What's wrong in saying that he has more talent then Park? If I compared Dos Santos with Ronaldo than that would be lunacy but we are talking here about comparing him with a utility player.

JCurr · 29th May 2008, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

I reckon that a 17 yr old Cristiano Ronaldo was better then Park. Whats wrong with that? Now Im not saying that Dos Santos is as good as Ronaldo. Im just saying that he is more technically gifted and a better scorer then Park and if I had to choose between the two Id choose Do Santos. Whats wrong with that?

Nothing. But the discussion is pointless. A teenager with the ability to star at the top level being compared to a squad player who's reached his full potential... Why?

devilish · 29th May 2008, 11:18

[quote=JCurr;4690519]

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

I reckon that a 17 yr old Cristiano Ronaldo was better then Park. Whats wrong with that? Now Im not saying that Dos Santos is as good as Ronaldo. Im just saying that he is more technically gifted and a better scorer then Park and if I had to choose between the two Id choose Do Santos. Whats wrong with that?[\QUOTE]

Nothing. But the discussion is pointless. A 17 year old with the ability to star at the top level being compared to a squad player who's reached his full potential... Why?

You know that they do play in the same position.

When Giggsie burst into scene he was still 17 and fresh from the youth academy. Despite all he was given a first team place ahead of England's international left winger. Now Im not saying that Dos Santos is as good as Giggs or that he should take a first team place with us. Im am only saying that he is a better option then one of our utility players. Btw, Dos Santos is 19, the same age Anderson had when he signed with us. Would it had been stupid to say (before April, because in April Anderson turned 20) that he was a better option then Fletcher?

JCurr · 29th May 2008, 11:27

[quote=devilish;4690535]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCurr

You know that they do play in the same position.

When Giggsie burst into scene he was still 17 and fresh from the youth academy. Despite all he was given a first team place ahead of England's international left winger. Now Im not saying that Dos Santos is as good as Giggs or that he should take a first team place with us. Im am only saying that he is a better option then one of our utility players. Btw, Dos Santos is 19, the same age Anderson had when he signed with us. Would it had been stupid to say (before April, because in April Anderson turned 20) that he was a better option then Fletcher?

Blimey.

I agree with you. Your opinion is an obvious one. Not even worth discussing, in fact. That was my point. Shite argument. You should've pulled out the

a long time ago.

devilish · 29th May 2008, 11:32

[quote=JCurr;4690558]

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

Blimey.

I agree with you. Your opinion is an obvious one. Not even worth discussing, in fact. That was my point. Shite argument. You should've pulled out the

a long time ago.

I apologise for the misunderstanding then.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 29th May 2008, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

Wes is a better defender then Pique. If that wasn't the case then SAF would have sold Wes and kept the Spaniard.

Fergie kept Wes because he is way more experienced and almost as talented. & Fergie felt that was too good to lose. Fair dues to him. That is beyond obvious. It had zero to do with Pique being worse than Brown.

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

I cannot understand why you rate Wes so poorly.

I rate him poorly? Yous re about that Devlish? Especially when I didn't want a player of his ability and talent to be wasted as mere back up on our bench & believed Pique was better suited to that role? And you did and still do think brown is fantastic for a mere bench role for us (which is what he is getting by staying)? and I rate him less than you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

I mean we are talking here about a player (a first teamer in a team capable of making the golden double) with more then 200 appearances with us and more then 17 caps with England. How can you ever compare him with Pique?

Because he has no business, with all those things you mentioned, being finally over his injury problems, coming into the peak years of his career, being just back up to Rio, Vidic and who ever we bring in at fullback, on our bench. Pique who is just as talented but far less experienced was better suited for the role of back up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

I do rate Park. He is a good utility player but he is not first team level. On the other hand Dos Santos has potential to become better then that. Regarding Giggs I apologise for still having faith in a player who will be remembered as one of the best wingers football had ever had. SAF tend to do that same mistake.

First off, you can 't rate Park and then claim Dos Santos a totally raw teenage no where near first team level, is a better player than him right now. Sorry, but that is not poosible.

Secondly Fergie hasn't made your "mistake" at all!. Of late he hasn't been using Giggs out wide but more centrally. & the up turn in the great mans performances has justified this particular tactic. & my statements on Giggs' role change all the more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

Experience is crucial for a goalkeeper and a defender, because you do one mistake in that role and you are fecked. The flank role is different, you are judged on the chances you create and your ability to score goals, in fact both Ronaldo and Giggs won a place when they were very young.

Neither of them won it based on criteria with goals scored. It was for their ability to link up play and create chances plus to find space for the rest of the team to operate. Dos Santos in terms of that is not close to Park at all. As a big fan of Dos Santos I'm under no illusions about this. Dos Santos isn't better than Park yet. Not by a long shot. Especially when you add experience into it

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

still cannot understand how you can say that Dos Santos is still inferior to Park but you would still play Park ahead of him.

Because you are either just stubborn or you don't bother to read what I post properly. I already said if I was United manager start Gio ahead of Park because I rate talent above experience. Because I feel talent always matures faster when given game opportunity. If you can't understand that then the problem lies with you, dude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

PS I had just told you that you're right on part of your post.

I am aware. That was duly acknowledged

Count Duckula · 29th May 2008, 13:18

Once again the Chief tries his tactic of subtly changing his argument when he's clearly losing the fight.

He's now no longer claiming that selling Pique and keeping Brown was a bad thing because Pique is more skilled, better for the team and a better prospect, as he had originally been arguing, but now he claims it's for Brown's own good, and that at his age he should be playing regular first team football.

Newsflash: He IS playing regular first team football. Wes Brown is a better defender than Pique. That's a fact. Ferguson keeps his best players. Were Pique a better defender then we would have kept him and sold Brown. We didn't.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 29th May 2008, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Duckula

Once again the Chief tries his tactic of subtly changing his argument when he's clearly losing the fight.

He's now no longer claiming that selling Pique and keeping Brown was a bad thing because Pique is more skilled, better for the team and a better prospect, as he had originally been arguing, but now he claims it's for Brown's own good, and that at his age he should be playing regular first team football .

You are clearly mad. My views never ever change. It' s who constantly fails to grasp them. Ending up viewing them as separate thing. It's not the first time you've done this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Duckula

Newsflash: He IS playing regular first team football.

Because Gary Neville hasn't been fully fit all season. Once he is and if Alves is bought as seem to be the case, Brown will be back on the bench. Guaranteed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Duckula

Wes Brown is a better defender than Pique. That's a fact.

No that's merely your opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Duckula

Ferguson keeps his best players.

Wrong. Fergie keeps what suits his team best. That's why men like O'shea will never ever be sold and Fortien was around as long as he was. It has zero to do with them being "his best players"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Count Duckula

Were Pique a better defender then we would have kept him and sold Brown. We didn't.

Bullshit. Fergie wasn't about to let a defender of Brown's calibre walk out on a free. This was obvious the moment he offered hima new deal. Once that was signed Pique' fate was sealed. He was never EVER going to get in to the side ahead of player with Brown's experience. & with Evans around too, his only option was to leave in order to save his career. Which he has duly done.

Name Changed · 2nd June 2008, 11:36

We can safely say now that he's not going to Citeh!!

rooney__10 · 30th June 2008, 16:07

New Tottenham signing Giovani Dos Santos, 19, has revealed he turned down Manchester United, Chelsea and Ajax to sign at White Hart Lane from Barcelona. "I also had good offers [from them], but I loved Juande Ramos's ideas. I am going to do great things with the Spurs," he said. (Setanta Sports, 1110)

as if he would turn down us, well I hope he didn't anyway if we were in for him. That would be him and ramsey.

GlastonSpur · 30th June 2008, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney__10

... as if he would turn down us, well I hope he didn't anyway if we were in for him. That would be him and ramsey.

... and Mpoku

charleysurf · 30th June 2008, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney__10

New Tottenham signing Giovani Dos Santos, 19, has revealed he turned down Manchester United, Chelsea and Ajax to sign at White Hart Lane from Barcelona. "I also had good offers [from them], but I loved Juande Ramos's ideas. I am going to do great things with the Spurs," he said. (Setanta Sports, 1110)

as if he would turn down us, well I hope he didn't anyway if we were in for him. That would be him and ramsey.

His agent obviously told him that "Manchester" were interested in him, but Dos Santos thought United were the only club in Manchester.

Mojo_pin · 30th June 2008, 20:16

United interested? Rubbish.

Glad he is at tottenham...would be surplus to requirements as we have better attacking options.

Name Changed · 30th June 2008, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney__10

New Tottenham signing Giovani Dos Santos, 19, has revealed he turned down Manchester United, Chelsea and Ajax to sign at White Hart Lane from Barcelona. "I also had good offers [from them], but I loved Juande Ramos's ideas. I am going to do great things with the Spurs," he said. (Setanta Sports, 1110)

as if he would turn down us, well I hope he didn't anyway if we were in for him. That would be him and ramsey.

I'd say fair play to him. He turned down extra money for footballing reasons. I respect that.

Eto'odinho · 1st July 2008, 01:26

Funny kid, perhaps he's trying to endear himself to Spurs' fans right away. Saying daft things like these might help BUT he might want to consider more appropriate opposition (Notice my reluctance to use the word "rivals").

Arse? naah too big, West Ham? perhaps, QPR? Possibly.

hotshot2004 · 1st July 2008, 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by IhabX7

Have watched him a lot this season, not really impressed.

Agreed mate. didn't impress me either. Barca are thinking along the same lines, rather than paying more money.

28th May 2008, 11:23	#81 (permalink)
Drifter First Team Regular Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 17,131	Under Ramos he could go on to be a star.

28th May 2008, 15:15	#85 (permalink)
rooney__10 Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,272	I would probably rather us take zarate on loan then go for dos santos. If we could loan zarate for the year I'd like that.

29th May 2008, 11:01	#88 (permalink)
JCurr Reserve Team Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: the desolate land of football that is the United States... feckin wankers galore. Posts: 805	If Brown's appearance record this season didn't speak for itself, 1-0 to Bolton at the Reebok should've erased any doubt. I reckon Anelka probably sent Pique flowers after that match. And comparing a squad player(Park) to a teenage starlet(Gio) is absolutely lunacy. Give it a rest. FFS, lads.

29th May 2008, 13:18	#95 (permalink)
Count Duckula First Team Sub Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: In the corner, losing my religion. Posts: 5,836	Once again the Chief tries his tactic of subtly changing his argument when he's clearly losing the fight. He's now no longer claiming that selling Pique and keeping Brown was a bad thing because Pique is more skilled, better for the team and a better prospect, as he had originally been arguing, but now he claims it's for Brown's own good, and that at his age he should be playing regular first team football. Newsflash: He IS playing regular first team football. Wes Brown is a better defender than Pique. That's a fact. Ferguson keeps his best players. Were Pique a better defender then we would have kept him and sold Brown. We didn't.

2nd June 2008, 11:36	#97 (permalink)
Name Changed weso26 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Dublin Posts: 4,517	We can safely say now that he's not going to Citeh!!

30th June 2008, 16:07	#98 (permalink)
rooney__10 Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,272	New Tottenham signing Giovani Dos Santos, 19, has revealed he turned down Manchester United, Chelsea and Ajax to sign at White Hart Lane from Barcelona. "I also had good offers [from them], but I loved Juande Ramos's ideas. I am going to do great things with the Spurs," he said. (Setanta Sports, 1110) as if he would turn down us, well I hope he didn't anyway if we were in for him. That would be him and ramsey.

30th June 2008, 20:16	#101 (permalink)
Mojo_pin Youth Team Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 235	United interested? Rubbish. Glad he is at tottenham...would be surplus to requirements as we have better attacking options.

1st July 2008, 01:26	#103 (permalink)
Eto'odinho Retard magnet Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cirith Ungol Posts: 8,820	Funny kid, perhaps he's trying to endear himself to Spurs' fans right away. Saying daft things like these might help BUT he might want to consider more appropriate opposition (Notice my reluctance to use the word "rivals"). Arse? naah too big, West Ham? perhaps, QPR? Possibly.

1st July 2008, 07:59	#105 (permalink)
The_Red_Hope Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 696