Downing to Liverpool?

alastair

You don't know that yet. If Carroll scores 25 league goals for 5 consecutive seasons, in this day and age, £35m won't seem too extortionate.

Plechazunga

Annoying things Liverpool have done the last few years:

Come back from 3-0 down in a CL final in a most unlikely manner

Get rid of Hicks and Gillett without much fuss or expense

Pick up Suarez

Hopefully defenders will know a bit more about him next season and he'll find things harder.

Pogue Mahone

alastair

Better than 1 in 2 in the league over a long period of time? £35m? High, but not a massive waste of money.

crappycraperson

But his whole point was that we paid 28m for someone who was being compared to Zidane while Liverpool have paid 35m for someone who could be next shearer or end up in championship in 2 seasons.

WireRed

Whether he does or he doesn't, £35m at the time was an extortionate sum. You can pay a slight premium for future potential as they did with Henderson and as we did with Jones but that premium must have cost about £15m in relation to the ability Carroll had previously showcased in a grand total of 6 months of PL football across his entire career.

He's a good player with further scope for improvement IMO, but no chance was he worth more than Suarez let alone worthy of a British record fee. Whether he goes on and produces enough to justify that price tag shouldn't detract from the fact he was worth nowhere near that at the time and that better/more proven players are moving for much less.

SmashedHombre

Well obviously. But you might as well apply that argument to anybody. If we signed som 17 year old Brazilian for £35million, and he then went on to score 30 goals a season for 10 seasons he would be a bargain. However at the time he wouldn't be worth £35mil, and nor was Carroll. You can say you are paying for potential, but I haven't seen anything from Carroll to even suggest he will be worth 35mil and you pay top price for top talent, you don't pay top price for hypothetical potential.

Spoony Youngblood

Al, your IQ does you no favours.

alastair

Ever since the 25 man squad rule, English player prices have become even more extortionate. This wasn't a usual transfer either - Torres had just left and Liverpool had one day to sign a new player, and thus the fee was very high. It's impossible to compare Carroll to Suarez.

At the time you signed Hernandez, he wasn't worth £7m. But he's worth 4x that now. Bizarre argument. Carroll has shown unbelievable potential - most exciting English striking talent by a mile.

alastair

It doesn't take an IQ of 150 to work out that Carroll could well prove his worth. I do get the impression that ever since United have stopped buying big, people here don't get that fees have got higher and higher as a whole. £35m for players will not be the exception anymore, they'll be happening every summer.

peterstorey

You're mistaking a bit of hyperbole for the serious point (much like people do when I say Fletcher's shit). Most people are impressed with what fatboy did for Blackpool they also think he's not the right calibre for ManU and probably not for Liverpool or Spurs either. Basically he's a £10M player.

Lance Uppercut

Plechazunga

er... have to say I agree with alastair here. If he went on to score 25 goals every season, clearly those people saying Liverpool overpaid would be wrong. It would prove in retrospect a very good judgement of what his potential was worth.

Let's hope none of that fecking happens, and he proves to be a bit of a hamfisted cockfaced Geordie oaf.

Bryan_Munich

Hernandez cost us £6m.

peterstorey

Yeah, but he won't so it's a shit point.

alastair

The point stands. Having a decent scoring record in the Mexican Primera doesn't make you worth £7m. But he's worth excessively more than that, because he's proved his worth. You have to give Carroll a chance.

SmashedHombre

Well yes, but it's such a retarded argument. You may as well apply it to anybody. Let's sign Santa Cruz for £35 mil too whilst we're at it, if he goes on to score 25 goals every season he would be a bargain! Flawless.

alastair

Tell you what Pete, let's have a proceeds to the Caf bet. £10 that Carroll scores 30 goals all comps next season.

alastair

Yeh, but Santa Cruz wouldn't do that, because he's average. Carroll isn't. I think your argument wins on the retardation stakes.

SmashedHombre

Stupid point. I think you're missing the whole argument here. With promising young players, you take a gamble. That goes without saying. £7 mil is a more than acceptable price for a young player who may, or may not, go on to be a fantastic purchase. £35mil is not. I would have thought Arsenal fans above all would recognise this

Lance Uppercut

I don't even know where to start with this one. Truly miraculous.

Sam

He's average at best. Newcastle couldn't even sell him for a million a year ago. Oh and as for your 'most exciting English striking talent by a mile', I think both Sturridge and Welbeck would have something to say about that.

SmashedHombre

amazing

alastair

But the key word is gamble here - Hernandez was more of a gamble than Carroll. In six months in the PL, Carroll had demonstrated that he was good enough to cut it at a high level, and was causing defences no end of trouble. He might never show that he's worth £35m, but it's not like he'll prove to be a dud worth less than £10m.

alastair

Oh god, the whole Welbeck is the best English striking talent argument again. I thought that had died.

alastair

I love how when a sensible, and non-bitter point, is made about a player, posters just post a smiley and claim that the other person is retarded. It doesn't exactly win the argument.

Lynk

Carroll will only get about 12-14 a season, if that. If I'm right I'm gonna quote myself back and gloat.

Spoony Youngblood

Look at his record and then tell me he's got the potential to be a great goalscorer. You don't pay that sort of money on a player who's only had a decent 6 months. I think that's why most people believe Liverpool were fleeced...back in January. Could and if, come on....if he goes on to become the best player ever...then 35mil will have been peanuts.

Sam

So Hernandez at just £6 million was more of a risk then Carroll at £35 million? Seriously?

Himself and Sturridge both have far far more technical ability then Carroll has, or ever will have.

SmashedHombre

I've made my point, re-iterating it would just be pointless and I haven't the patience of the Chief to do so.

You obviously think Carroll is some world beating talent, I do not.

Spoony Youngblood

He's one of your lot, you ought to be embarrassed.

alastair

Well I'm more than willing to stake money on it, because it's obvious he's got goals in him.

I've said already that Carroll will probably prove to be a tad overpriced simply because of the circumstances surrounding his transfer. It was hardly conventional. But making out that he's a £15m player is bizarre in my view - Spurs put a bid of £25m in apparently, so obviously multiple managers rate him.

alastair

I can't wait to bump this thread next summer. Surprised no-one's put their money where their mouth is, though.

CnutOfAllCnuts

Whatever way you want to look at it, paying £35m (£35m!) for Andy fecking Carroll is and was shocking!

Even if he goes on to become the new Pele.

Even a Liverpool loving Arsenal fan like yourself must be able to see that.

Lance Uppercut

I think we all are, at this point.

Sam

Tbf, 'Arry would bid for a pringle were it to be available at the right price.

alastair

What would you pay, hypothetically, for a striker with a 1 in 2 record? And what would you pay for a striker with a 1 in 2.5 record?

Spoony Youngblood

How's it obvious he's got it in him to score bucketloads? Can someone post his scoring record? I can't because I'm on my flipping phone.

alastair

Internet hardman Lance, not making a point of your own but jumping in when you agree with the majority. You win at this internet lark.

Lance Uppercut

Didn't he also bid £30 million for pretty much every striker in Spain around the same time?