Fletcher to everton ?

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 10th July 2008, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCurr

Nonsense. Fletcher has much more mobility and shows some creativity on occasion which makes him far superior to the extremely limited, overrated Barry. As for your last statement, the fact that England isn't smart enough to leave Barry out of the squad is far more tragic than Carrick's exclusion....

You can't be serious. Capello is no fool. Barry is nor overrated nor is he limited.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 10th July 2008, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarni

That's just crazy. He has one year left on his deal and is definitely not worth more than about £6m in his current position. Had he extended his deal, he'd probably be worth about £3m more. As a back-up player at United you cannot really be rated at £15m+, this is the money that could buy you two midfielders of Fletcher quality and that's also the money that United would not be asking for.

He's a vital squad player, but still he's only a squad player. As long as he's willing to stick with the club and fulfill his current role I'm fine with it, but the minute he decides to leave he will be worth less than £10m. I mean, even if he leaves we will not have much trouble with finding a player that could replace him. Well, we wouldn't really have to replace him in an instant because we have 4 players ahead of him currently.

Spot on.

FranklyVulgar · 10th July 2008, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

I'd take Arteta. H can defend just as well and attacks far better. Plus is comfortable on the wings The most underrated midfielder in the premiership.

Gets found out too easily. Arteta has ability but in europe he was dire and his main attribute is the ability to win free kicks. Which is great if most of your goals are from set peices (everton style) but not great if you are United.

Good player yes but as an attacking midfielder he has nothing compaired to what United have. Fletcher can play a role because Carrick and Hargreaves are of a simelar mould but Arteta would be very out of place at a team like United. Everton is truely his level.

ralphie88 · 10th July 2008, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

What Gentleman's Agreement? Do you have a link?

If such a thing exists the European Commission would have football for breakfast. Again!

Wo-hoo, finally got to the bottom of this.

There is no Gentleman's Agreement for clubs in the top Leagues not to use the Webster decision. The Munich manager expressed a wish for such an agreement but there is none in place (and in fact Italy, Germany and England have clubs negotiating Webster deals as we speak).

However, as Red Indian points out, Fletcher may have missed the window for a Webster, as a request needs to be put in in the first 15 days after the season ends.

gaffs · 10th July 2008, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

Wo-hoo, finally got to the bottom of this.

There is no Gentleman's Agreement for clubs in the top Leagues not to use the Webster decision. The Munich manager expressed a wish for such an agreement but there is none in place (and in fact Italy, Germany and England have clubs negotiating Webster deals as we speak).

However, as Red Indian points out, Fletcher may have missed the window for a Webster, as a request needs to be put in in the first 15 days after the season ends.

Dont forget though Ralphie, Fletcher would never ever even think about doing that to United.

ralphie88 · 10th July 2008, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaffs

Dont forget though Ralphie, Fletcher would never ever even think about doing that to United.

Of course not, wouldn't cross his mind. And I'm sure it wouldn't cross his mind to walk away at the end of the season on a free transfer. He's as loyal as, oooooh I don't know, Ronaldo.

kietotheworld · 10th July 2008, 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

However, as Red Indian points out, Fletcher may have missed the window for a Webster, as a request needs to be put in in the first 15 days after the season ends.

Based on the transfer rules, and the amount of clubs you're allowed, as far as I remember, the season ends on June 30th.

All 3 United · 10th July 2008, 14:02

Personally I would be delighted to sell him (for anything). He is not needed we have 4 central midfield players and when he does play he is a long way behind the other 4 options.

FranklyVulgar · 10th July 2008, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by All 3 United

Personally I would be delighted to sell him (for anything). He is not needed we have 4 central midfield players and when he does play he is a long way behind the other 4 options.

Yet will still put in MOTM performances ahead of these other 4 options in a decent amount of the games he does manage to get in.

All 3 United · 10th July 2008, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranklyVulgar

Yet will still put in MOTM performances ahead of these other 4 options in a decent amount of the games he does manage to get in.

The myth of a big game player comes up again!!

Dippersripper · 10th July 2008, 14:48

Can they afford a latin superstar like fletchinho?

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 10th July 2008, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranklyVulgar

Gets found out too easily. Arteta has ability but in europe he was dire and his main attribute is the ability to win free kicks. Which is great if most of your goals are from set peices (everton style) but not great if you are United.

Good player yes but as an attacking midfielder he has nothing compaired to what United have. Fletcher can play a role because Carrick and Hargreaves are of a simelar mould but Arteta would be very out of place at a team like United. Everton is truely his level.

Fair enough. I disagree though. I'm certain Arteta would thrive on a bigger stage than Everton gives him

Mozza · 10th July 2008, 14:52

I'd sell him, he's a decent enough player but will not get enough time at United to become anything more then that, to be honest for his own good he should be trying to find a new club, if he was really ambitious he'd move abroad.

FranklyVulgar · 10th July 2008, 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by All 3 United

The myth of a big game player comes up again!!

Say he started 11 games. He was MOTM in 2 or 3. Not bad for a player who is miles away from the other 4 midfielders in the squad.

FranklyVulgar · 10th July 2008, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Fair enough. I disagree though. I'm certain Arteta would thrive on a bigger stage than Everton gives him

Well he didn't do well in spain, or particularly great for Rangers (he was very young). He does have ability but he will need to leave Everton or hope Everton do well in europe in order to get a move away because no big team would touch him at this moment in time.

Personally i think he would get found out but he needs to leave Everton for us to find out. One for a future discussion!

JCurr · 10th July 2008, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

You can't be serious. Capello is no fool. Barry is nor overrated nor is he limited.

Quite serious I am. Capello is no genius apparently when it comes to English football. And you, sir, need to watch a bit more of Gaweth Bawwy.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 10th July 2008, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranklyVulgar

.... but he needs to leave Everton for us to find out. One for a future discussion!

Indeed

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 10th July 2008, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCurr

Quite serious I am. Capello is no genius apparently when it comes to English football.

Actually he is. Ha has realised Carrick is not a DM, so he wastes him not there and soo eh will realise Carrick should be the one ocupying Gerard and Lampard's midfield slot. It's only a matter of time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCurr

And you, sir, need to watch a bit more of Gaweth Bawwy.

I've never heard of him

Any way seriously dude, I've followed GB's career since his Villa and England debut. He is far from limited. Limited = Hayden Mullins

Sarni · 10th July 2008, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranklyVulgar

I have a feeling that if fletcher was at a club like Villa, Everton, Blackburn etc he would have that consistency. In all honestly the best thing Fletch could have done for his career (in a playing/reputation sense) would have been to have left old trafford and established himself as a first choice at another club.

People get this "coat tails) impression of him, that without the wonderful team around him he would be a nothing player. It is his own ability that sees him still in the united squad when many other players who never got the same critisism have left (smith, richardson, jones etc etc). This is because Fletch is an extreamly capable central midfielder and anyone saying otherwise can go to hell and burn.

It's all ifs and buts. In fact clubs don't buy players and pay on the basis of what they may become in the future, they pay prices that reflect who they are at the moment of signing. Everton may be almost certain of him becoming a huge success yet it's still 'almost' and they have to pay a price that will be suitable to his current ability.

Sarni · 10th July 2008, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCurr

Quite serious I am. Capello is no genius apparently when it comes to English football. And you, sir, need to watch a bit more of Gaweth Bawwy.

Capello has proven himself virtually everywhere. To undermine his achievements by saying and thinking that Premiership is so special that it requires someone better to know it is a bit arrogant.

FranklyVulgar · 10th July 2008, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarni

It's all ifs and buts. In fact clubs don't buy players and pay on the basis of what they may become in the future, they pay prices that reflect who they are at the moment of signing. Everton may be almost certain of him becoming a huge success yet it's still 'almost' and they have to pay a price that will be suitable to his current ability.

Come on, alot of clubs will buy a player and pay alot for potential. Of course they wont pay top dollar because they arn't getting a complete player but they will fork out big money on potential. Anderson for example. Ronaldo at the time, Rooney. Yeah they were all good when they first joined but they all got better and will continue to get better.

Of course we don't know who will and wont be a success at clubs. Sometimes a player you think is a dead cert to succeed will fail, other times players who you don't think will do too great will surprise you.

I always thought and still do think that Fletch has it in him to surprise alot of people. SAF thinks so too.

gaffs · 10th July 2008, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarni

In fact clubs don't buy players and pay on the basis of what they may become in the future, they pay prices that reflect who they are at the moment of signing. Everton may be almost certain of him becoming a huge success yet it's still 'almost' and they have to pay a price that will be suitable to his current ability.

Many players are signed on the basis of potential - i.e. Ronaldo, Nani, Anderson etc etc.

Sarni · 10th July 2008, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranklyVulgar

Come on, alot of clubs will buy a player and pay alot for potential. Of course they wont pay top dollar because they arn't getting a complete player but they will fork out big money on potential. Anderson for example. Ronaldo at the time, Rooney. Yeah they were all good when they first joined but they all got better and will continue to get better.

Of course we don't know who will and wont be a success at clubs. Sometimes a player you think is a dead cert to succeed will fail, other times players who you don't think will do too great will surprise you.

I always thought and still do think that Fletch has it in him to surprise alot of people. SAF thinks so too.

Difference is, Anderson would be a regular for Porto and wanted among top European clubs which obviously drove his price up. Problem with him wasn't that he struggled to keep his place and not shown all his potential, he was just very young and could become even better.

Same goes for Nani and Ronaldo. Still, we paid about £12m for each which hardly reflects the price of Ronaldo at the moment, Nani and Anderson will probably go on to be worth about £25m to £30m each too. Yet we paid half as much for their signature because we couldn't have been sure that they would be worth this much in the future.

Let's face it, Fletcher is a player who never really had a first-team spot at United. He's already 24 and will obviously get better, but not by a countrymile. He's hardly in the same bracket as Anderson or Ronaldo when they came, there are no top clubs fighting for him.

Plus it's big clubs who pay big for talent. The likes of Everton rarely do that because they have no money to lose.

Sarni · 10th July 2008, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaffs

Many players are signed on the basis of potential - i.e. Ronaldo, Nani, Anderson etc etc.

A different situation. These are young players who could go on to achieve great things and become the best in their positions plus their prices did not reflected their future may-be prices. Fletcher is a different scenario.

kundalini · 11th July 2008, 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by All 3 United

The myth of a big game player comes up again!!

Milan (home), Roma (home), Arsenal (fa cup), Chelsea - how many examples do you want? Fletcher is far more of a big game player than Scholes or Carrick. In fact given the choice I'd let Scholes go and keep Fletcher because Scholes' career is coming towards the end.

Fletcher is a poor choice as a right side midfield player but in the centre of midfield he's a decent player who hasn't had the sort of opportunities that the likes of Carrick have had.

If he wants to leave then fair enough but I wouldn't be pushing him towards the exit. In fact I'd be doing the total opposite.

Red-Indian · 11th July 2008, 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphie88

Wo-hoo, finally got to the bottom of this.

There is no Gentleman's Agreement for clubs in the top Leagues not to use the Webster decision. The Munich manager expressed a wish for such an agreement but there is none in place (and in fact Italy, Germany and England have clubs negotiating Webster deals as we speak).

However, as Red Indian points out, Fletcher may have missed the window for a Webster, as a request needs to be put in in the first 15 days after the season ends.

Well, to be fair, the 15 days from the end of the season is only for fair notice. If he choses to use the ruling now, he can still do so - only he may be fined for not giving enough notice.

Perhaps this is the summer someone high-profile will use the Webster ruling though i'd be surprised if any club encourages it for fear of the future consequences on themselves. Real Madrid might... because they seem to believe that no player would ever want to leave them if not forcibly pushed out but every other club would hesitate to set the precedent and encourage a player to come to them on a Webster. Who knows... they could be screwed next.

10th July 2008, 14:02	#168 (permalink)
All 3 United Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Manchester Posts: 1,557	Personally I would be delighted to sell him (for anything). He is not needed we have 4 central midfield players and when he does play he is a long way behind the other 4 options.

10th July 2008, 14:48	#171 (permalink)
Dippersripper Educating ignorant bastards about God to achieve a near-perfect world Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Reason is an excuse for faith. Faith is everything. Please don't take, My Fletcher, Away..... Posts: 10,026	Can they afford a latin superstar like fletchinho?

10th July 2008, 14:52	#173 (permalink)
Mozza "Geek" Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Let Rooney be Rooney Posts: 16,682	I'd sell him, he's a decent enough player but will not get enough time at United to become anything more then that, to be honest for his own good he should be trying to find a new club, if he was really ambitious he'd move abroad.