January midfield targets

Bryan_Munich

We already have good established midfield players.

dev1l

Is he Fletcher's younger bro by any chance?

And wr8_utd, will you open a sneijder-esque thread for Elm?

Devil may care

That's because those type of midfielders are not really being produced now. Most teams play with three and the duties are divided into sections of the pitch, the box to box leader is not really a type of player being produced anywhere.

I'm always right

Elm isn't even a regular for the National team over here, there's no chance we're in for him at that silly price. It's a crap, lazy article written by a Swedish paper (aftonbladet) about a Swedish player "wanted by a big club".

7even

You know your stuff. But SAF also have a fair point. How many players are available who clearly can improve our midfield. And available is key word.

Varun_Utd

"Availability" depends on a lot of factors. If a club like Manchester United came calling with a good price, a lot of clubs would be forced to sell players they normally wouldnt.

Berlinknives

What price did Bébé sign for?

MacMUFC

Fuck me, I'd almost forgotten about that guy. What an absolutely outrageous signing, called it at the time. You just dont sign semi pro footballers for that price, there's something really dodgey about that transfer.

Cina

He has the same agent as De Gea (and I think previous Portugese players we signed?) so I would think that had something to do with it.

Not too sure though.

KM

Yup Jorge Mendez is the agent of Ronaldo and Nani.

Fergies Formula

Bébé - apparently there is no value in the market yet ferguson spent millions on this guy.

I'm frustrated by our inabilty of addressing a problem which has been evident for at least 2 years. My guess is the money isnt there to make massive signings. Obviously younger players come in with incentive/ performance based clauses which means any transfer fee is broken up where as with a marquee player a lot of the money is paid upfront, this is where we fergusons hands are tied at the high end.

The ronaldo money was never reinvested and we haven't progressed since Ben unfortunately.

Interval Level

Don't worry. This'll be confirmed soon enough by many on here who visit the United board room regularly.

Frankly, I don't see anything wrong with what SAF said. He may have identified 3 players like Modric, Goetze and Sneijder. But either the prices and wages were prohibitive or the player was unwilling to move.

This thread is a disaster waiting to happen.

KM

Heh. I knew this was gonna happen when this thread was made, the midfield threads is like a magnets of retards here on the Caf.

7even

Agree and we will not buy any of those three.

KingMinger22

We simply will not pay the Market rates for a top CM player - hence why we haven't got one in th least three years despite it being a painstakingly obvious limitation to the team.

CnutOfAllCnuts

So we'll pay the market rates for any other type of players than central midfielders?

Right...

rcoobc

Giggs 37, Carrick 30, Fletcher 27, Anderson 23, Cleverley 22, Jones 19.

Parker 31, Modric 26, Silva 25.

I'm sure if United find a player that a) Will improve the squad for the right price or b) A young player with potential for the right price, then we will buy him. But we have the players for the future.

Lance Uppercut

According to this tool before the last window, we had no money and weren't able to sign anyone. Then we signed 3 players and tried for a midfielder, but couldn't get it done. Now we "won't pay the going rate."

Some idiots just love to fucking moan. As usual, the least informed are the most opinionated.

wr8_utd

Sneijder's been injured most of the season. Who wanted him anyway?

KingMinger22

If you're referring to me, I never once suggested we wouldn't buy last summer. I thought we'd spend more tbh

Baby Faced Assassin

Ideally we need to cm's - an enforcer & a creative mid playing in an advanced position. But I would be glad if Fergie gets even one in Jan.

fortyseven

Who are the most informed? Apart from yourself, of course.

honcho

WR8 says.....Sneijder's been injured most of the season. Who wanted him anyway?

NICE ONE M8

Ole'sbodyguard

He's not comparing them though is he. He said if he could find a Robson or a Keane in the transfer market, he would be in straightaway. The only point Keane or Robbo were referenced in.

apotheosis

Why are we in the market for midfielders then?

apotheosis

What i can't get my head around is why he has waited so long to strengthen the midfield.

In the last 3 years we could have signed Modric for 15m, Sneijder for 12m and had a go for Silva before City were ever interested. these players were all well known, their talent was unquestioned and yet we now find ourselves in a position where we have to pay 3 times as much for players we could have got much cheaper when they were 3 years younger.

If we can pay £20m for the likes of Anderson, Nani, Jones etc, and take a chance on them, why were we not willing to take a similar chance on the less riskier and more established Modric or Silva, or buy an already recognised talent like Sneijder for 12m?

Can't understand it myself, how SAF can believe that the defence (which has been regarded as one of the best about) needed strengthening more than the midfield is beyond me. We have spent £48m on the defence this season, while we have not spent a penny on the midfield since 2007!

Baffling logic imo!

Lance Uppercut

Where did I say I was the most informed?

Varun_Utd

3yrs ago, we had scholesy around and carrick at his best. No reason to add midfielders tbh specially with the likes of fletch being around and talents like ando there too.

Its only since the summer of 10, that i'v really felt the need for a CM. ideally, i wanted someone who'd be at the club for a year while scholesy was there to learn from him. When that didnt happen, i fully expected us to sign someone this summer. our interests in Sneijder and nasri confirms that Sir Alex did actually try and get a player in for the position.

For whatever reason, it didnt work out. What i think is that after debacles like Veron and Berba(to an extent), SAF is a tad hesitant to spend 30mil'ish that it would take to land an absolute top midfielder unless he gets his first choice. which is why he did not go for a panic buy. thankfully so if i may add.

i am pretty sure we'l buy in one of the 2 upcoming windows. SAF wanted a player in the summer. nothing has changed since.

i dont care what he says to the media. as i've posted before in the thread. it counts for nothing. he says what he has to say to keep things normal. what he does has nothing to do with what he says to a couple of journalists.

Ash_G

Well I thought it was odd we didn't sign anyone this summer but then who was available? Let's not forget in recent years we've spent around 40mil on Hargreaves and ando. Unfortunately Hargreaves didn't work out but the money was spent. Ando was rated very highly and we've been unfortunate that he hasn't,t developed as we would have liked. With the Modric signing its all about hindsight really. He would have been perfect for us looking at him now but maybe at the time he was signed fergie saw more in ando etc. The two other players you mentioned don't fit our style. I'd love a silva or sneijder but both would require us to change to a three which is something fergie seemingly doesn't want us to do. I can understand why though because if you do that you restrict Rooney. He may get more goals as an out an out striker but his impact when in the hole is much more noticeable. Signing a player like a silva would mean he couldn't play there. I suppose sneijder might be able to play a two which may have been why fergie was interested in him in the summer but tbh I don't think he could play it effectively. Plus the price was ott.

That's the problem at the moment. In the style we play you need more traditional midfielders capable of handling themselves in a two man midfield and unfortunately right now we're in an age of specialised midfielders. Players like Modric are very rare and he's the sort of player we need. That's why I don't think we signed anyone, there's just not many players of the type we need who are available or proven.

apotheosis

Scholes was coming to the end, and he knew he was selling Ronaldo to Madrid at the end of the season.

I disagree with the 'only in the summer of 10'. We could not have replaced Ronaldo as a player, but we needed to sign more than one player to replace his contribution. We didn't and we have struggled for form and consistency, both individually and collectively ever since.

You are using Schoes as a justification for not signing a replacement back then, but using the same logic, why has he strengthened the defence now, while Rio and Vidic have at least 2 more years? I think even the most ardent supporter of our midfield would have to concede the midfield especially after the loss of Scholes and Hargo, required improving much more urgently than the defence.

apotheosis

Well this was my point Ash, we were forced to play a 3 when Ronaldo left to accommodate Scholes, so surely Sneijder would have been ideal to take the pressure of scoring all the goals off Rooney, because we saw what happened when Rooney got injured.... £12m for Sneijder then mate. £12m!

Again Modric was one of the stand out players in Euro 2008 qualifying, he was immense and it was galringly obvious even then he was going to be a top player. So i ask again why punt 18m on a kid who may or not be good, as opposed to spending 15m on Modric who had already proved his class?

Varun_Utd

Sir Alex has never really replaced like for like. in case of ronaldo, it wasnt even possible to do so. We could have signed more than 1 player but at which position. CM, imo was pretty well stocked. Scholes, even though nearing his end, was performing in most games and along with carrick and fletch and an upcoming anderson were a group of 4 really good midfielders.

Regarding our business this summer, i dont think we'd have gone for Jones had other clubs not stepped in. Much like the rooney transfer. Just too good a talent to let go of. Ideally, i think he'd have wanted him at blackburn for another year. Likewise, to a smaller extent, with smalling. HAd we not gone for him, he'd be an arsenal player now. Considering Evans shaky(to say the least) form and Rio's injury record, it'd have been suicide to not buy either of them when we were selling brown and oshea at the same time.

As i said, he did want to strengthen this summer. for some reason or the other, his primary targets couldnt be acquired. instead of wasting the 30mil on a panic buy, he decided to keep it for the upcoming windows. the sensible thing to do imo. I'd have been very disappointed had we gone out and got a henderson for 20mil. I'd rather wait for a window and get quality in rather than waste the cash because unlike the likes of Real, City and Barca, we dont have the luxury of flunking cash every window and getting rid of failures that cost huge amounts.

Ash_G

I swear we only played a three in batches here and there, in general we played a two didn't we? Also it's possible that was a stop gap until fergie could find the right striker to partner Rooney which he seemingly has now in Hernandez. I've always thought fergie favours the 442/4411 and so as I said the players you mentioned don't really fit into that style. If fergie did want to go to a three then I agree that it was odd but as I said it doesn't look like he does.

As for Modric again yeah he was great but you never know how someone would adapt. Also don't forget that in 2008 we had just won the cl and both Hargreaves and ando had made promising starts to their careers at united. At the point we had a carrick playing well as well as Hargreaves. Fletcher showing improvement, ando having a good debut season as well as giggs and scholes still showing they had enough in the locker. There was no reason to buy a midfielder then. Had he known what would happen with some of those players then I'm sure he would have gone in for him but at that point there was no need.

apotheosis

Well i admitted he couldn't replace Ronaldo, but you simply cannot only sign one winger, as a replacement for all the attributes ronaldo brought. He should have signed another striker, or a goalscoring midfielder. He didn't and imo it cost us the title that year.

See i don't agree that Fletcher or Anderson at that time can be put into the very good midfielder category. The bottom line was they were not as good as modric, who was bossing midfields at international level reguallry and was available for only 15m. This is my point Varun, we have simply made do, when we should have acted and since City's emergence it is nowe harder than ever to sign the quality of player we need. We did not act quickly enough back then and we are paying the price for that now.

I agree completely Varun, but i fail to see how the logic used in the defence scenario is somehow not applicable to the midfield. Not signing someone before this summer has left us in this position, suicide did u call such inaction with regards to our defence, i say the same regarding the midfield.

For me we have already waited too many windows, squeezing ever bit of blood out of Scholes instead of just signing someone. We have not strengthened the one area that could have improved us dramatically, and for that reason we have stood still. the problem with standing still is that you can be overtaken, which is what city appear to have done this season.

With their money and ever increasing possibility of success, signing the best will be harder than ever, and imo if City do win the title this season we will only have ourselves and our lack of action to blame.

apotheosis

We started poorly in a 4-4-2 and then switched to a 4-5-1 just before Xmas and then kept that formation until Rooney got injured.

Well i would suggest we knew he was going to be top quality, which is more than can be said for Fletcher or Anderson. this is my point, we have simply made do, when imo we should have acted. Modric was a special talent and for the same reasons we have gone for Jones we should have gone for Modric. We didn't and notw we have to pay ridiculous sums of money or miss out and continue to struggle. We have now found ourselves in a position where we are forced to do the latter.

Berlinknives

Perhaps a bit more physical strength in the team is needed, realistically I look at Valencia and maybe Giggs and that's about it. I mean when's the last time you seen the likes of Nani, Park, Young, Fletcher, Anderson, Cleverley, Carrick or Gibson bloody manhandling a striker on the break.

More gym work lads.

Ash_G

The thing is though that going in to this summer although we could have used a midfielder it wasn't essential. From fergies point of view he had a returning fletcher who has shown that when fit and on form he's more than good enough. A carrick wo finished the season very strongly, as well as ando who had had a good preseason, plus giggs and a returning clev. Those are good options who maybe aren't top top players but have shown they are more than capable of helping the club to success and then some younger players who have the potential to step up. As I said we all accept that a midfielder would have been good but its not absolutely essential and I think fergie thought that instead of paying over the top for someone like sneijder who would require the team to change he could wait and give some of the current players a chance to step up and also buy some more time to scout for the right player to improve us. As I said the sort of player we need is rare in today's game.

City have hardly strengthen their midfield this summer. They brought in a player we let go. Nasri is a good addition but he plays more in their attack then the middle. They have strengthen their attack though with aguero and as I said Nasri. We have as well though with the addition of Young, who although is off form right now fits our style very well and we have Rooney back, a player that we didn't,t really have for most of last season. They,ve obviously started much better than us but I don't think their team has surpassed us. We're going through a bad spell at the moment but when players get back on form our team including the midfield is more than good enough and had much more experience of winning the title then they do.

As I said I agree that it would have been nice to sign a midfielder but like I said the type we need is very hard to find. The options we do have though are good enough to see us through, they've proven that, carrick and fletcher have probably played more games then any of our other midfielders in these last five years. Bringing in a midfielder would help us but I don't think it's absolutely essential and I think we're good enough there to be able to wait to find the right player as well as give the likes of clev a chance to step up.

Ash_G

Didn't we usually play 442 but instead of having Rooney in the hole we used berbs more deeply and Rooney as the most forward player? I'm probably wrong. I remember playing 433 in a fair fee tough games but I thought the basic formation was berbs behind roo. As I said though that may have been a stop gap until he found the right players. I think in Hernandez he found the striker for Rooney to play off that he's been looking for and in young he's found another winger who can attack in a variety of ways. I thought these two signings were quite interesting and indicated to me that he's looking to play a 442/4411, I could be wrong though.

Again though like I said back in 2008 we had two players at a great age playing really well in carrick and Hargreaves. Two players showing good improvement in fetcher and ando as well as established performers in scholes and giggs. Not to mention he'd spent around 56mil combined for three if those players. At that moment I don't see why he would have thought he needed to sign anyone. In following seasons the players available became much more limited. Modric had passed and spurs weren't gonna sell and there was no one else established who's suited our style and was available. As I said I don't think he wants to go out and just spend over the top on just anyone but find the right player. I think it's too easy to say that Modric would have been a star. You can never be certain off that, look at veron, look at berba. Also with jones as you guys have said he was a talent we didn't want to miss out on and knew English football. But also remember we had let oshea and brown go as well as Neville so we needed cover there, we had the numbers in the midfield so it wasn't so essential, as I said I would have been happy to sign someone butit wasn't like we had to and I think fergie thinsks we have the quality there to see us through till we identify the right player or someone like a clev steps up.

Varun_Utd

We had enough strikers when ronaldo left mate. Didnt really need more. A goalscoring midfielder, well, he never really has bought an exclusively AM with his preference for a 4-4-2.

Modric was a gamble mate with his build and stature. There's a reason he went to spurs and not any of the other top clubs, had his quality been that obvious, he'd have had suitors greater than spurs. It was a gamble that spurs took and it worked brilliantly for them. Now, Fletch was very good back then, possibly the best he's played for us. The lead up to Rome is what am talking about here. Anderson was an obvious talent, everybody expected him to kick on. He hasnt but that couldnt be said 3yrs back. It made sense to give talents like him a chance to take over when the likes of scholesy retired.


As i said before, he DID try to sign quality players in nasri and sneijder in the summer. It did not work out. WOuld you have preferred to have him go for a panic buy in the last few days when the sneijder move didnt materialize?


Ideally, we'd have signed someone 2-3yrs back. My point is, it wasnt a necessity which it became once Scholesy retired. we had enough quality 3yrs back to not warrant another CM signing. We had scholesy carrick fletch ando and hargo(whom we had not given up on till then). that is quite a good set of CMs tbh.

CM became a real problem this summer. To Sir Alex's credit, he did try and address the issue this summer. n am sure he'l give it another shot in the upcoming one.

signing quality players is tougher now, agree with that.

Ash_G

Tbf I do agree that when ronaldo left we could have done with an extra attacker. In that 09/10 season we just lacked an attacker which cost us once Rooney got injured. Had he not or had we had one more quality striker to come in we would have won the title. But then at the same time again we had spent big money on berbs and he didn't reach the level we would have expected.