Juan Manuel Iturbe - the next Messi?

Originally Posted by letranger0

Porto officially confirmed the signing yesterday. They now own 60% of Iturbe's rights and he will join up with the team in June before heading off to the U20 World Cup. The transfer fee was undisclosed but if Google Translate and A Bola are to be believed the combined value of 60% of Iturbe and 90% of Kelvin Mateus de Oliveira from Paraná (the other player they confirmed) cannot exceed €3m. So Iturbe ≤ (€3m - 0.9*Kelvin)/0.6.



As the price of Kelvin, K, fluctuates from €0 to €3.33m, the price of Iturbe, X, fluctuates from €0 to €5m.

How to segue from the above to my thoughts on Iturbe? I can't think of a good way.

My thought process re: Iturbe has gone through something like a four-stage evolution. The first stage was excitement, on the eve of the Sudamericano U20 when his name and the accompanying 'new Messi' tags started appearing in the papers. The second was disappointment when I actually watched him play. Yes he could dribble but all the other parts of his game needed a lot of work, and I don't think he justified the hype created by people who had almost certainly never actually watched him play. This was the impression I was left with when the tournament ended. The third stage was cautious optimism as a result of watching him in the Copa Libertadores with Cerro Porteño. While many of the same negatives were still present I did think there had been improvements, even in that short space of time.

The fourth stage came about when I watched the Sudamericano U17 a few months after the U20 version. I think that tournament really helped me with perspective in that Iturbe is still only 17 and at the tournament was playing against players 2-3 years older than him. Seeing players of his own age playing at the U17, and seeing their general level, I think has made me see Iturbe in a new light.

He still has his flaws, no doubt. His off the ball movement is casual, his general passing is average and his defensive work rate is practically nonexistent[1]. He has a lot to learn about what it means to play as a team, work as a team and defend as a team.

But what he does have is elite level dribbling[2] and close control relative to his age group. Everything else, all the negatives I mentioned, can be worked on but to already be so far ahead of the curve in a decisive, rare and valuable trait is a huge advantage. He's not the next Messi, but he is an exciting young talent and if he works hard and focuses on improving his overall game he could become a special player. I think he has made a good decision joining Porto and I look forward to following his progress next year. [3][4]

[1] His work rate was a little better in the recent match against Jaguares in which he played at times on the left of a midfield three in a 3-5-2.

[2] As far as his dribbling style he isn't a Messi-type of dribbler, constantly touching the ball, nor is he a Ronaldo/Sanchez-type of stepover merchant. His dribbling is more direct and powerful, like he sees an opening, plays the ball through and charges after it. Despite his small size he is pretty strong and not easy to knock over or off balance. He has quick feet and reacts well to bounces and changes of direction.

[3] I should have mentioned something about his pace and burst of acceleration and ability to control the ball even at high speeds.

[4] Footnotes, talking to myself, a graph and an equation all in one post. I think it's time for me to go to bed.

Originally Posted by letranger0

Porto officially confirmed the signing yesterday. They now own 60% of Iturbe's rights and he will join up with the team in June before heading off to the U20 World Cup. The transfer fee was undisclosed but if Google Translate and A Bola are to be believed the combined value of 60% of Iturbe and 90% of Kelvin Mateus de Oliveira from Paraná (the other player they confirmed) cannot exceed €3m. So Iturbe ≤ (€3m - 0.9*Kelvin)/0.6.



As the price of Kelvin, K, fluctuates from €0 to €3.33m, the price of Iturbe, X, fluctuates from €0 to €5m.

How to segue from the above to my thoughts on Iturbe? I can't think of a good way.

My thought process re: Iturbe has gone through something like a four-stage evolution. The first stage was excitement, on the eve of the Sudamericano U20 when his name and the accompanying 'new Messi' tags started appearing in the papers. The second was disappointment when I actually watched him play. Yes he could dribble but all the other parts of his game needed a lot of work, and I don't think he justified the hype created by people who had almost certainly never actually watched him play. This was the impression I was left with when the tournament ended. The third stage was cautious optimism as a result of watching him in the Copa Libertadores with Cerro Porteño. While many of the same negatives were still present I did think there had been improvements, even in that short space of time.

The fourth stage came about when I watched the Sudamericano U17 a few months after the U20 version. I think that tournament really helped me with perspective in that Iturbe is still only 17 and at the tournament was playing against players 2-3 years older than him. Seeing players of his own age playing at the U17, and seeing their general level, I think has made me see Iturbe in a new light.

He still has his flaws, no doubt. His off the ball movement is casual, his general passing is average and his defensive work rate is practically nonexistent[1]. He has a lot to learn about what it means to play as a team, work as a team and defend as a team.

But what he does have is elite level dribbling[2] and close control relative to his age group. Everything else, all the negatives I mentioned, can be worked on but to already be so far ahead of the curve in a decisive, rare and valuable trait is a huge advantage. He's not the next Messi, but he is an exciting young talent and if he works hard and focuses on improving his overall game he could become a special player. I think he has made a good decision joining Porto and I look forward to following his progress next year. [3][4]

[1] His work rate was a little better in the recent match against Jaguares in which he played at times on the left of a midfield three in a 3-5-2.

[2] As far as his dribbling style he isn't a Messi-type of dribbler, constantly touching the ball, nor is he a Ronaldo/Sanchez-type of stepover merchant. His dribbling is more direct and powerful, like he sees an opening, plays the ball through and charges after it. Despite his small size he is pretty strong and not easy to knock over or off balance. He has quick feet and reacts well to bounces and changes of direction.

[3] I should have mentioned something about his pace and burst of acceleration and ability to control the ball even at high speeds.

[4] Footnotes, talking to myself, a graph and an equation all in one post. I think it's time for me to go to bed.

Originally Posted by Wibble

Is that a serious post?

Originally Posted by Wibble

Is that a serious post?

Originally Posted by letranger0

Porto officially confirmed the signing yesterday. They now own 60% of Iturbe's rights and he will join up with the team in June before heading off to the U20 World Cup. The transfer fee was undisclosed but if Google Translate and A Bola are to be believed the combined value of 60% of Iturbe and 90% of Kelvin Mateus de Oliveira from Paraná (the other player they confirmed) cannot exceed €3m. So Iturbe ≤ (€3m - 0.9*Kelvin)/0.6.



As the price of Kelvin, K, fluctuates from €0 to €3.33m, the price of Iturbe, X, fluctuates from €0 to €5m.

How to segue from the above to my thoughts on Iturbe? I can't think of a good way.

My thought process re: Iturbe has gone through something like a four-stage evolution. The first stage was excitement, on the eve of the Sudamericano U20 when his name and the accompanying 'new Messi' tags started appearing in the papers. The second was disappointment when I actually watched him play. Yes he could dribble but all the other parts of his game needed a lot of work, and I don't think he justified the hype created by people who had almost certainly never actually watched him play. This was the impression I was left with when the tournament ended. The third stage was cautious optimism as a result of watching him in the Copa Libertadores with Cerro Porteño. While many of the same negatives were still present I did think there had been improvements, even in that short space of time.

The fourth stage came about when I watched the Sudamericano U17 a few months after the U20 version. I think that tournament really helped me with perspective in that Iturbe is still only 17 and at the tournament was playing against players 2-3 years older than him. Seeing players of his own age playing at the U17, and seeing their general level, I think has made me see Iturbe in a new light.

He still has his flaws, no doubt. His off the ball movement is casual, his general passing is average and his defensive work rate is practically nonexistent[1]. He has a lot to learn about what it means to play as a team, work as a team and defend as a team.

But what he does have is elite level dribbling[2] and close control relative to his age group. Everything else, all the negatives I mentioned, can be worked on but to already be so far ahead of the curve in a decisive, rare and valuable trait is a huge advantage. He's not the next Messi, but he is an exciting young talent and if he works hard and focuses on improving his overall game he could become a special player. I think he has made a good decision joining Porto and I look forward to following his progress next year. [3][4]

[1] His work rate was a little better in the recent match against Jaguares in which he played at times on the left of a midfield three in a 3-5-2.

[2] As far as his dribbling style he isn't a Messi-type of dribbler, constantly touching the ball, nor is he a Ronaldo/Sanchez-type of stepover merchant. His dribbling is more direct and powerful, like he sees an opening, plays the ball through and charges after it. Despite his small size he is pretty strong and not easy to knock over or off balance. He has quick feet and reacts well to bounces and changes of direction.

[3] I should have mentioned something about his pace and burst of acceleration and ability to control the ball even at high speeds.

[4] Footnotes, talking to myself, a graph and an equation all in one post. I think it's time for me to go to bed.

Originally Posted by letranger0

Porto officially confirmed the signing yesterday. They now own 60% of Iturbe's rights and he will join up with the team in June before heading off to the U20 World Cup. The transfer fee was undisclosed but if Google Translate and A Bola are to be believed the combined value of 60% of Iturbe and 90% of Kelvin Mateus de Oliveira from Paraná (the other player they confirmed) cannot exceed €3m. So Iturbe ≤ (€3m - 0.9*Kelvin)/0.6.



As the price of Kelvin, K, fluctuates from €0 to €3.33m, the price of Iturbe, X, fluctuates from €0 to €5m.

How to segue from the above to my thoughts on Iturbe? I can't think of a good way.

My thought process re: Iturbe has gone through something like a four-stage evolution. The first stage was excitement, on the eve of the Sudamericano U20 when his name and the accompanying 'new Messi' tags started appearing in the papers. The second was disappointment when I actually watched him play. Yes he could dribble but all the other parts of his game needed a lot of work, and I don't think he justified the hype created by people who had almost certainly never actually watched him play. This was the impression I was left with when the tournament ended. The third stage was cautious optimism as a result of watching him in the Copa Libertadores with Cerro Porteño. While many of the same negatives were still present I did think there had been improvements, even in that short space of time.

The fourth stage came about when I watched the Sudamericano U17 a few months after the U20 version. I think that tournament really helped me with perspective in that Iturbe is still only 17 and at the tournament was playing against players 2-3 years older than him. Seeing players of his own age playing at the U17, and seeing their general level, I think has made me see Iturbe in a new light.

He still has his flaws, no doubt. His off the ball movement is casual, his general passing is average and his defensive work rate is practically nonexistent[1]. He has a lot to learn about what it means to play as a team, work as a team and defend as a team.

But what he does have is elite level dribbling[2] and close control relative to his age group. Everything else, all the negatives I mentioned, can be worked on but to already be so far ahead of the curve in a decisive, rare and valuable trait is a huge advantage. He's not the next Messi, but he is an exciting young talent and if he works hard and focuses on improving his overall game he could become a special player. I think he has made a good decision joining Porto and I look forward to following his progress next year. [3][4]

[1] His work rate was a little better in the recent match against Jaguares in which he played at times on the left of a midfield three in a 3-5-2.

[2] As far as his dribbling style he isn't a Messi-type of dribbler, constantly touching the ball, nor is he a Ronaldo/Sanchez-type of stepover merchant. His dribbling is more direct and powerful, like he sees an opening, plays the ball through and charges after it. Despite his small size he is pretty strong and not easy to knock over or off balance. He has quick feet and reacts well to bounces and changes of direction.

[3] I should have mentioned something about his pace and burst of acceleration and ability to control the ball even at high speeds.

[4] Footnotes, talking to myself, a graph and an equation all in one post. I think it's time for me to go to bed.

Originally Posted by letranger0

Porto officially confirmed the signing yesterday. They now own 60% of Iturbe's rights and he will join up with the team in June before heading off to the U20 World Cup. The transfer fee was undisclosed but if Google Translate and A Bola are to be believed the combined value of 60% of Iturbe and 90% of Kelvin Mateus de Oliveira from Paraná (the other player they confirmed) cannot exceed €3m. So Iturbe ≤ (€3m - 0.9*Kelvin)/0.6.



As the price of Kelvin, K, fluctuates from €0 to €3.33m, the price of Iturbe, X, fluctuates from €0 to €5m.

How to segue from the above to my thoughts on Iturbe? I can't think of a good way.

My thought process re: Iturbe has gone through something like a four-stage evolution. The first stage was excitement, on the eve of the Sudamericano U20 when his name and the accompanying 'new Messi' tags started appearing in the papers. The second was disappointment when I actually watched him play. Yes he could dribble but all the other parts of his game needed a lot of work, and I don't think he justified the hype created by people who had almost certainly never actually watched him play. This was the impression I was left with when the tournament ended. The third stage was cautious optimism as a result of watching him in the Copa Libertadores with Cerro Porteño. While many of the same negatives were still present I did think there had been improvements, even in that short space of time.

The fourth stage came about when I watched the Sudamericano U17 a few months after the U20 version. I think that tournament really helped me with perspective in that Iturbe is still only 17 and at the tournament was playing against players 2-3 years older than him. Seeing players of his own age playing at the U17, and seeing their general level, I think has made me see Iturbe in a new light.

He still has his flaws, no doubt. His off the ball movement is casual, his general passing is average and his defensive work rate is practically nonexistent[1]. He has a lot to learn about what it means to play as a team, work as a team and defend as a team.

But what he does have is elite level dribbling[2] and close control relative to his age group. Everything else, all the negatives I mentioned, can be worked on but to already be so far ahead of the curve in a decisive, rare and valuable trait is a huge advantage. He's not the next Messi, but he is an exciting young talent and if he works hard and focuses on improving his overall game he could become a special player. I think he has made a good decision joining Porto and I look forward to following his progress next year. [3][4]

[1] His work rate was a little better in the recent match against Jaguares in which he played at times on the left of a midfield three in a 3-5-2.

[2] As far as his dribbling style he isn't a Messi-type of dribbler, constantly touching the ball, nor is he a Ronaldo/Sanchez-type of stepover merchant. His dribbling is more direct and powerful, like he sees an opening, plays the ball through and charges after it. Despite his small size he is pretty strong and not easy to knock over or off balance. He has quick feet and reacts well to bounces and changes of direction.

[3] I should have mentioned something about his pace and burst of acceleration and ability to control the ball even at high speeds.

[4] Footnotes, talking to myself, a graph and an equation all in one post. I think it's time for me to go to bed.

Originally Posted by RedThaiDevils#7

Is this official yet ?



Blazing pace.

Originally Posted by Cantona07

What I cant understand is how come we never go for talents such as this and end up with Bebe and Diouf etc.

Originally Posted by Cantona07

What I cant understand is how come we never go for talents such as this and end up with Bebe and Diouf etc.

Originally Posted by Ramshock

Thats the mystery with Fergie, always has been, never goes for the top stars when they are young with the odd exception. Always remember the talk about Cantona recommending Zidane to Fergie when he was still at Bordeaux. I dont see the point in having south american scouts if the likes of this kid arent considered as worthy of buying.

Originally Posted by Robbie Boy

He was linked with Bolton yesterday. So, not doing too well at porto I would imagine.

Originally Posted by Reapersoul20

That's why we have scouts, then.

Originally Posted by Robbie Boy

He was linked with Bolton yesterday. So, not doing too well at porto I would imagine.