Phillip Lahm

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber · 28th June 2008, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney__10

Obviously if your playing in the position fullback then you will be called that wes brown is a shit full back because he is not very good attacking wise.

Wes Brown is not even a fullback. AS I said, Freidrich is a great example of a defensive minded fullback. Who isn't shit going forward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney__10

However tactics do hamper your fullbacks ability to get forward.

Very wrong. Unless your team is under the cosh. Attacking fullbacks will always get forward. Even while you are applying counter attacking tactics. This should be obvious by now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney__10

And your point about fullbacks attacking regardless of tactics if frankly tripe I am afraid. Rooney is a bloody striker and he basically played as a defender on the right against barcelona and he loves to get forward but he didn't and that was inevitably down to tactics.

Rooney frankly has little to do with anything. Rooney and main attacking fullback like Evra couldn't get forward because we were useless with the ball in Spain. Which had zero to do with our tactics. At OT we used similar stifling tactics. But Evra got foward fine cause we used the ball way better

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney__10

If you have the ability to attack as a fullback and you do it well then you are a good fullback however if you can'/t attack well then its obvious your a poor fullback. I don't know any top fullback who can't attack and the defensive ones are just shit.

The defensive ones can never be shit. Because they are not shit going forward. Just ok. Possessing a defensive game that is superior to their attacking game. So you are very mistaken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney__10

Ashley Cole, Patrice Evra, Daniel Alves, Gianluca Zambrotta, Philipp Lahm, Roberto Carlos, Sergio Ramos. Boswinga, Gael clichy, sagnol, sagna

All those are attacking fullbacks.

Men like these :
Antonio Benarivo, Allesandro Birendelli, Daniel Prodan, Moreno Toricelli, Roland Nillson, Thomas Struntz, Angloma, Jose Chamot, Zdenek Grygera, Favalli, Arne Freidrich, Lauren, Lescott, Paul Fereira, to name a few

all fit the definition I put forward. Fullbacks who's defensive game is stronger than their attacking game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney__10

There's no two ways about it if your a defensive fullback with shite technique and one who cannot attack then it is just another way of saying your shit.

A defensive fullback is not one who cant attack. Just a fullback who's defensive game is stronger than his attacking game. You are confusing such players with the Wes Brown ilk.

esmufc07 · 28th June 2008, 22:10

RICTR you would get more sense out of a slug.

It's his 11th birthday tomorrow so try not too upset the lad too much.

Brwned · 28th June 2008, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by esmufc07

RICTR you would get more sense out of a slug.

It's his 11th birthday tomorrow so try not too upset the lad too much.

Mozza · 28th June 2008, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterstorey

Actually Neville started as a pretty dodgy fullback, very vulnerable to pace. As you say he's improved year-on-year to become a very good player.

I've always thought the bigger problem was his playing offside, tended to get caught as the line stepped up

Majestic16 · 29th June 2008, 03:48

Never heard the defensive fullback term before.

I know that theres a fullback and an attacking-fullback (or wingback as some still call them). A (younger) Maldini and a Roberto Carlos. The former won't let you get through, the latter will peg you back in your own half.

As for Neville, do you think he'd be more comfortable playing as a winger or a center back? I guess the answer should be obvious to all.

devilish · 29th June 2008, 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majestic16

Never heard the defensive fullback term before.

I know that theres a fullback and an attacking-fullback (or wingback as some still call them). A (younger) Maldini and a Roberto Carlos. The former won't let you get through, the latter will peg you back in your own half.

As for Neville, do you think he'd be more comfortable playing as a winger or a center back? I guess the answer should be obvious to all.

The reason being that its used by certian italian critics to distinguish the difference bid between the traditional fullback and a wingback. Now a wingback main strength relies in going forward. In the past these type of players weren't very weak in their defensive skills (Cicinho, Serginho, R Carlos etc) and where played as wingbacks in a 5 men defense (3 cb and another wingback). While a 'defensive' fullback strength rely in his defensive skills. That is why Maldini was still considered as a fullback 'or defensive fullback' despite being able to take the ball, go forward, dribble past defenses and grow dangerous.

To say everything the roles ('defensive' fullback and wing back) had merged alot in the past few years. A wing back is now expected to know how to defend well (Evra and Zanetti are good defenders) while a 'defensive' full back has to learn how to go forward. There again we have not yet reached the level where the differences are so slight that we can scrap these titles away.

Now the question is this. In which areas Gaz excel most, in defending or attacking? While I do rate Gaz ability in going forward I believe that his main strengths are in his positioning, his leadership and his ability to win the ball.

rooney__10 · 29th June 2008, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by esmufc07

RICTR you would get more sense out of a slug.

It's his 11th birthday tomorrow so try not too upset the lad too much.

Kin el why you trying to bum someone in an internet forum you must have a sad life lol.

Your gunna send him a pm soonn saying "you can thank me l8r"

Majestic16 · 29th June 2008, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

The reason being that its used by certian italian critics to distinguish the difference bid between the traditional fullback and a wingback. Now a wingback main strength relies in going forward. In the past these type of players weren't very weak in their defensive skills (Cicinho, Serginho, R Carlos etc) and where played as wingbacks in a 5 men defense (3 cb and another wingback). While a 'defensive' fullback strength rely in his defensive skills. That is why Maldini was still considered as a fullback 'or defensive fullback' despite being able to take the ball, go forward, dribble past defenses and grow dangerous.

To say everything the roles ('defensive' fullback and wing back) had merged alot in the past few years. A wing back is now expected to know how to defend well (Evra and Zanetti are good defenders) while a 'defensive' full back has to learn how to go forward. There again we have not yet reached the level where the differences are so slight that we can scrap these titles away.

Now the question is this. In which areas Gaz excel most, in defending or attacking? While I do rate Gaz ability in going forward I believe that his main strengths are in his positioning, his leadership and his ability to win the ball.

I agree with most of this. I certainly think that Gaz would fall under the old fashioned fullback category. His defensive qualities stand out. I tried implying that when I said that hes very comfortable as a CB.

It seems like he learned a thing or two off Becks when it comes to crossing. Other than that, not much of his attacking game stands out. He links up well with his winger, but so do all top fullbacks.

devilish · 29th June 2008, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majestic16

I agree with most of this. I certainly think that Gaz would fall under the old fashioned fullback category. His defensive qualities stand out. I tried implying that when I said that hes very comfortable as a CB.

It seems like he learned a thing or two off Becks when it comes to crossing. Other than that, not much of his attacking game stands out. He links up well with his winger, but so do all top fullbacks.

That is exactly my point!

friendlytramp · 29th June 2008, 21:46

i'd still take him we could probably get him on the cheap now...

ralphie88 · 29th June 2008, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber

Seriously, just Grow up! It's high time you learned to have a discussion with difference of opinion with somebody without resorting to such childishness. This is the same shit you pulled in other thread when you resorted to labeling people muppets. Plus a few other times that I wont mention here

Look who's talking. I simply disagreed with you and you got personal.

Hello Pot. This is Mr Kettle.

Name Changed · 29th June 2008, 21:48

I don't think Lahm is that good. Defensively he is poor enough, as shown tonight, both in general play and he was badly at fault for the goal. There is no doubt that he is a great attacking full back, but his defensive abilities are not good enough for United.

ralphie88 · 29th June 2008, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Name Changed

I don't think Lahm is that good. Defensively he is poor enough, as shown tonight, both in general play and he was badly at fault for the goal. There is no doubt that he is a great attacking full back, but his defensive abilities are not good enough for United.

He's had a stinker this tournament.

Terrible Father, terrible. Terrible's the word. No, terrible's too small a world. Forgive me for saying this but wouldn't it have been better if he had been kelled?

Lmarco · 29th June 2008, 21:59

Defensively, he's crap

Kelvin · 29th June 2008, 22:02

He is shite defensively and even though he is alright going forward, think we should stay clear of him.

Raven_Blade · 29th June 2008, 22:04

I think we can safely say that Phillip Lahm's services will not be required any more.

esmufc07 · 29th June 2008, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney__10

Kin el why you trying to bum someone in an internet forum you must have a sad life lol.

Your gunna send him a pm soonn saying "you can thank me l8r"

I think you're the only one who found this remotely funny.

KeyserSoze · 29th June 2008, 22:27

Love the change in Caf feelings after todays performance, this place would not be the same without it. I have never been a big fan personally but he is not totally crap all of a sudden. Poor tournament.

KeyserSoze · 29th June 2008, 22:28

reddevilcanada · 29th June 2008, 22:33

Big fuck up on the biggest stage once again allowing Torres to just go past him like that

Brwned · 29th June 2008, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddevilcanada

Big fuck up on the biggest stage once again allowing Torres to just go past him like that

Yeah because Torres almost never takes it past players like that. He's also very slow and in all honesty is fairly shit.

reddevilcanada · 29th June 2008, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwned

Yeah because Torres almost never takes it past players like that. He's also very slow and in all honesty is fairly shit.

he was favourite to the ball yet Torres quite easily went past him, for a player regarded as teh best RB in the business, that was quite a fuck up!

FlawlessThaw · 29th June 2008, 22:41

I tell you what I don't think Evra would have let Torres go past him like that. Unless of course he was playing next to Heinze.

Brwned · 29th June 2008, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddevilcanada

he was favourite to the ball yet Torres quite easily went past him, for a player regarded as teh best RB in the business, that was quite a fuck up!

It was, but enough of the knee jerk reactions like. If we had signed him before the Euro's it would have been *** city here.

friendlytramp · 29th June 2008, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddevilcanada

he was favourite to the ball yet Torres quite easily went past him, for a player regarded as teh best RB in the business, that was quite a fuck up!

You got to remember he was playing out of position and was outstanding when he was played at right back, and i don't think he was out paced our out muscled on the goal, it was his judgement that was off as he tried to leave the ball to Lehman rather than just hoofing it and that allowed Torres to steal in...his decision making and postioning can be improved.

reddevilcanada · 29th June 2008, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwned

It was, but enough of the knee jerk reactions like. If we had signed him before the Euro's it would have been *** city here.

'knee-jerk reactions' for fucking up on the biggest stage is actually understandable whereas wankfests on a player most caftards have never seen play yet claim to know is the best in teh business is the sort of thing that needs to stop. Lahm is a quality RB, but I don't see anything wrong with pointing out a fuck-up of that significance, it's a more valid point/observation than most comments made by the 'experts' on an internet forum.

reddevilcanada · 29th June 2008, 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by friendlytramp

You got to remember he was playing out of position and was outstanding when he was played at right back, and i don't think he was out paced our out muscled on the goal, it was his judgement that was off as he tried to leave the ball to Lehman rather than just hoofing it and that allowed Torres to steal in...his decision making and postioning can be improved.

I thought he was equally comfortable playing on either side

He's still a quality player, but he needs to be more consistent which will come with time I guess, and he's certainly got time on his side

peterstorey · 30th June 2008, 00:09

Not a great day for the 'wannabe wingers'. Ramos was even worse but got away with it.

28th June 2008, 22:10	#162 (permalink)
esmufc07 Smashed's bitch Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ex-Chairman of the all powerful and all conquering organistation - lolibfascon. Posts: 8,390	RICTR you would get more sense out of a slug. It's his 11th birthday tomorrow so try not too upset the lad too much.

29th June 2008, 03:48	#165 (permalink)
Majestic16 Youth Team Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sack Quieroz, Sell Ronaldo. Posts: 353	Never heard the defensive fullback term before. I know that theres a fullback and an attacking-fullback (or wingback as some still call them). A (younger) Maldini and a Roberto Carlos. The former won't let you get through, the latter will peg you back in your own half. As for Neville, do you think he'd be more comfortable playing as a winger or a center back? I guess the answer should be obvious to all.

29th June 2008, 21:46	#170 (permalink)
friendlytramp Reserve Team Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: J Stand Posts: 1,145	i'd still take him we could probably get him on the cheap now...

29th June 2008, 21:48	#172 (permalink)
Name Changed weso26 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Dublin Posts: 3,627	I don't think Lahm is that good. Defensively he is poor enough, as shown tonight, both in general play and he was badly at fault for the goal. There is no doubt that he is a great attacking full back, but his defensive abilities are not good enough for United.

29th June 2008, 21:59	#174 (permalink)
Lmarco Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: France Posts: 842	Defensively, he's crap

29th June 2008, 22:02	#175 (permalink)
Kelvin First Team Sub Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,764	He is shite defensively and even though he is alright going forward, think we should stay clear of him.

29th June 2008, 22:04	#176 (permalink)
Raven_Blade Attention Whoring Common Crow Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Berba Time...? Posts: 15,948	I think we can safely say that Phillip Lahm's services will not be required any more.

29th June 2008, 22:27	#178 (permalink)
KeyserSoze First Team Sub Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The Way I Hear It Soze's Some Kind Of Butcher Posts: 6,556	Love the change in Caf feelings after todays performance, this place would not be the same without it. I have never been a big fan personally but he is not totally crap all of a sudden. Poor tournament.

29th June 2008, 22:28	#179 (permalink)
KeyserSoze First Team Sub Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: The Way I Hear It Soze's Some Kind Of Butcher Posts: 6,556

29th June 2008, 22:33	#180 (permalink)
reddevilcanada First Team Sub Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 9,574	Big fuck up on the biggest stage once again allowing Torres to just go past him like that

29th June 2008, 22:41	#183 (permalink)
FlawlessThaw most 'know it all' poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London Posts: 9,147	I tell you what I don't think Evra would have let Torres go past him like that. Unless of course he was playing next to Heinze.

30th June 2008, 00:09	#188 (permalink)
peterstorey Winner of the 'Most pompous arrogant pretentious Gooner' title 2004 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Happy those, who can remain at Highbury! Posts: 8,250	Not a great day for the 'wannabe wingers'. Ramos was even worse but got away with it.