Why we won't spend big on a striker this year

devilish · 6th May 2008, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by cekscrayons

All smoke and mirrors. You'll see.

Do you really think he is going to rely on the likes of:

Manucho(Flop IMO)
Campbell (Has potential, probably not enough)
Saha (He'll be gone)
Welbeck(Too young)

Leaving:

Tevez
Rooney

What if one gets injured like Rooney earlier this season?

And, before you utter Ronaldo's name, He is certainly not as effecive playing as a CF.

How the hell can Manucho be considered as a flop? FFS he has yet to play 1 game with us.

And Ive never said that we wont be bringing in a striker. Ive only said that he will

not cost a fortune (ie 20m+)
he will probably be a young player who wouldnt mind to sit on the bench and learn from the best.

REd FUn DevIl · 6th May 2008, 17:15

Wellbeck and Campbell wont be in the first team squad next season yet.

We would have to bring one more striker to our squad apart Manucho who will probably get his work permit.

Rooney, Tevez, Manucho and a new one. Saha's future wont affect us.

Red17 · 6th May 2008, 17:32

Didn't Fergie or CQ said Ronnie will be given a fresh challenge as a striker...

Personally, I think :-
1. Manucho will be eased into the team, whether next season or the one after - Fergie's priority will be to ensure the player is ready for the challenge first of all. He will be assessed further in pre-season.
2. Fraizer will stay with the senior squad and be given a chance to prove himself. Loan will be a possibility if he fails to make his mark or take his chance.
3. Saha will be gone, if a taker can be found..
4. We will have 3 senior strikers + 1 younger or less experienced striker to be eased in.
5. Different striking options will be the aim. That means, a striker with a physical presence (more of height, rather than a shorter but robust type like Rooney or Tevez) or exceptional an athlete. Could be a Saha type, a Shearer type, even a Berbatov type and of course Benzema type. The decider will be availability.
6. I don't think we will be buying an established big name striker - not for lack of funds but rather we can't accommodate another 1st 11 player. We may pay big money for a young next big thing though.

IMO, the combinations could be:-
1. Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo + Fraizer/Manucho, in which case, we will be looking for a winger - hence perhaps the Valencia connection.
2. Rooney, Tevez, a new £10m-£15m rated striker (Santa Cruz, Vucinic, etc) + Fraizer/Manucho.
3. Rooney, Tevez, Saha, Ronaldo and new winger.
4. Rooney, Tevez, Saha & a young NEXT BIG THING.

cekscrayons · 6th May 2008, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

How the hell can Manucho be considered as a flop? FFS he has yet to play 1 game with us.

And Ive never said that we wont be bringing in a striker. Ive only said that he will

not cost a fortune (ie 20m+)
he will probably be a young player who wouldnt mind to sit on the bench and learn from the best.

Manucho may be effective. We don't know. I just don't believe he is going to be the next Drogba or Adebayor.

Although he has played more games lately and has played well. Its just that the premiership is an entirely different ball game, compared to the level he has played at. Making him not the most dependable player if Rooney or Tevez were injured.

Ok then, any suggestions to who this new young striker will be? Who won't cost anywhere near 20m?

Wouldn't make sense, plus SAF has a habbit of going for more established players. Unlike Wenger.

Decotron · 6th May 2008, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by REd FUn DevIl

He may be good but he is no better than what we already have.

What i mean is he wont bench any of our wingers. We can do better.

Other than Ronaldo and Nani I dont think we have any other wingers in the squad. Eagles and Martin will be sold. Park and Fletcher arent wingers. Giggs is more effective in the middle and Welbeck is a year away from even being a first team sub (unfortunatly) I suppose its nearly the silly season for transfer rumours but I think this one may have some legs.

MrMarcello · 6th May 2008, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

If you spend 20m on a striker then you will have to give him regular football. You dont bring in Torres just to keep him on the bench. May I remind you that while we do need a striker, we already have 2 world class strikers, players who would want to play regularly.

Why so? United paid 18m for a midfielder who plays here and there.

Name Changed · 6th May 2008, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anduin

I would not be surprised if we spend around £20m on a striker and another £15-20m on either a right-back or a central midfielder. If Fergie thinks Hargreaves will do the job at right-back for years to come, then there is no need to buy a right-back. But I would not understand a move for another central midfielder unless Fletcher is on his way out.
My personal guess is that Pique (£5m), Saha (£7m), Eagles and maybe even Evans (£5m) and Fletcher (£7m) could be on their way out. Net spent therefore should be somewhere in the region of £20m.
Strikers next season: Rooney, Tevez, new striker, Manucho, Campbell

No way should they be sold, especially Fletcher. Fletcher has shown this season that he can come in and do a fantastic job.

And why would we sell the other two? Evans is certainly a Premiership player and Pique is good also. Both will improve immensely over the next couple of years.

There are no reasons to sell good squad players like that? We would have to go and buy more squad players to replace them. Players that are not as good. That is stupid.

Fletcher is quality.

cekscrayons · 6th May 2008, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMarcello

Why so? United paid 18m for a midfielder who plays here and there.

Exactly.

United lack depth up top. If Saha stayed fit, it wouldn't be such an issue, but he's a liability.

Look at Arsenal: Adebayor,Van Persie, Eduardo, Bendtner, Walcott, Vela(next season)

Top clubs should have strength in depth up top.

devilish · 6th May 2008, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by cekscrayons

Manucho may be effective. We don't know. I just don't believe he is going to be the next Drogba or Adebayor.

Although he has played more games lately and has played well. Its just that the premiership is an entirely different ball game, compared to the level he has played at. Making him not the most dependable player if Rooney or Tevez were injured.

Ok then, any suggestions to who this new young striker will be? Who won't cost anywhere near 20m?

Wouldn't make sense, plus SAF has a habbit of going for more established players. Unlike Wenger.

Manucho was brought to cover a well defined role ie that of fourth striker. In the past few months he scored bucketloads of goals at both international and club level which sort of justify the choice. I wonder what you would have said if we brought a striker from Molde or Tonnerre Yaounde, the clubs Ole and George Weah played with when they were old as Manucho.

What we need is a young striker (or fairly young) whom while adding a new dimension to our side, he will accept the bench + he wouldnt cost a fortune. I wouldnt go through the muppetery route by starting mentioning names. Stating that I believe that there are good strikers out there who wouldnt cost the club 20m. Adebayor himself signed with Arsenal for a fraction of that sum (around 3m). Wouldnt you be happy if we got the new Adebayor or would you still want to spend 20m for a striker?

devilish · 6th May 2008, 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by cekscrayons

Exactly.

United lack depth up top. If Saha stayed fit, it wouldn't be such an issue, but he's a liability.

Look at Arsenal: Adebayor,Van Persie, Eduardo, Bendtner, Walcott, Vela(next season)

Top clubs should have strength in depth up top.

Which of these players has costed 20m?

GlastonSpur · 6th May 2008, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by united.7

... All this talk of 30 million plus is rubbish ..

I think you'll find it isn't, but we shall see.

Players like Berbatov don't crop up very often - Spurs know this probably better than anyone else. He has 4 years left on his contract and Spurs aren't desperate for money. Spurs will only let him go for big, big money - especially if it's to a club like MUFC that has plenty of it.

Sceptical? Then think back to Carrick, who had far less time left on his contract and was before all the extra TV money came sloshing into the coffers of Prem. clubs.

crappycraperson · 6th May 2008, 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlastonSpur

I think you'll find it isn't, but we shall see.

Players like Berbatov don't crop up very often - Spurs know this probably better than anyone else. He has 4 years left on his contract and Spurs aren't desperate for money. Spurs will only let him go for big, big money - especially if it's to a club like MUFC that has plenty of it.

Sceptical? Then think back to Carrick, who had far less time left on his contract and was before all the extra TV money came sloshing into the coffers of Prem. clubs.

Situation with Berbatov has changed now. Players wants a move now which will play into buyers hand. Unless Chelsea buy him, think you will sell him for around 20m.

REd FUn DevIl · 6th May 2008, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red17

3. Rooney, Tevez, Saha, Ronaldo and new winger.
4. Rooney, Tevez, Saha & a young NEXT BIG THING.

The funny shit is you think Ronaldo will be one of our strikers, this is a option we had to take because we had no options right now. This is not a test to turn him into a striker.

To give Saha another season to feck our chances is a joke, i thought you had enough with 2 season. If he stays or leaves we should plan without him.

We need a world class striker in the Berbatov/Benzema profile to improve our strikerforce and who can win games on his own (a match winner).

hycool · 6th May 2008, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlastonSpur

I think you'll find it isn't, but we shall see.

Players like Berbatov don't crop up very often - Spurs know this probably better than anyone else. He has 4 years left on his contract and Spurs aren't desperate for money. Spurs will only let him go for big, big money - especially if it's to a club like MUFC that has plenty of it.

Sceptical? Then think back to Carrick, who had far less time left on his contract and was before all the extra TV money came sloshing into the coffers of Prem. clubs.

Bullshit. The problem now is you seem to be trying to convince everyone that Berbatov is so good that everyone is chasing him. Wake up to reality. He is at most going to offer 10 odd goals a season, at most 15. Stop trying to convince deluded muppets here that he is the man for Man Utd. Clearly, he is NOT.

Rowem · 6th May 2008, 18:35

Manucho is not the answer for us next season. He's still only a raw talent. Even in the best case scenario I only see him being an option off the bench, and it will take him a while to reach the required level. The guy's been playing Angolan league football ffs, we need him learning and training around great players and coaches for a season or two before we should expect anything. In the mean time we need another option upfront. We have been lacking this season.

cekscrayons · 6th May 2008, 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

Manucho was brought to cover a well defined role ie that of fourth striker. In the past few months he scored bucketloads of goals at both international and club level which sort of justify the choice. I wonder what you would have said if we brought a striker from Molde or Tonnerre Yaounde, the clubs Ole and George Weah played with when they were old as Manucho.

What we need is a young striker (or fairly young) whom while adding a new dimension to our side, he will accept the bench + he wouldnt cost a fortune. I wouldnt go through the muppetery route by starting mentioning names. Stating that I believe that there are good strikers out there who wouldnt cost the club 20m. Adebayor himself signed with Arsenal for a fraction of that sum (around 3m). Wouldnt you be happy if we got the new Adebayor or would you still want to spend 20m for a striker?

Bucket loads? Ive seen alot of his goals, and he won't be given so much time and space in the PL

Both Rooney & Tevez have sat on the bench at times this season. They will again next season, whether Berbatov arrives or not. Players have come to accept it, as part of the modern game. Particularly if players find themselves at a big club challenging on 4 fronts.

Competition for places is healthy.

The competition for places at CM for Utd this season has proved successful. It lowers the risk of complacency among players too.

Why buy another young striker anyway? You already have several in Rooney/Tevez/Welbeck/Campbell/Manucho

REd FUn DevIl · 6th May 2008, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowem

Manucho is not the answer for us next season. He's still only a raw talent. Even in the best case scenario I only see him being an option off the bench, and it will take him a while to reach the required level. The guy's been playing Angolan league football ffs, we need him learning and training around great players and coaches for a season or two before we should expect anything. In the mean time we need another option upfront. We have been lacking this season.

You know fuck all. You havent saw him play by the way and yes he is the answer.

Manchester United Recall Manucho

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=684732

Rowem · 6th May 2008, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by hycool

Bullshit. The problem now is you seem to be trying to convince everyone that Berbatov is so good that everyone is chasing him. Wake up to reality. He is at most going to offer 10 odd goals a season, at most 15. Stop trying to convince deluded muppets here that he is the man for Man Utd. Clearly, he is NOT.

He's getting that many for Spurs, plus a lot of assists for Robbie Keane. He'd fit in well at United. I'd prefer Benzema because he offers more physically and is younger, but Berbs would be a very nice addition no question about it. Whether or not he's worth the price tag is a decision I'm happy for SAF to make.

cekscrayons · 6th May 2008, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by hycool

Bullshit. The problem now is you seem to be trying to convince everyone that Berbatov is so good that everyone is chasing him. Wake up to reality. He is at most going to offer 10 odd goals a season, at most 15. Stop trying to convince deluded muppets here that he is the man for Man Utd. Clearly, he is NOT.

Do you not watch football? Berbatov is class. If he was at Utd he'd score even more goals.

People tend to not realise his contribution to the team.

He is only 2nd to Ronaldo in the Goals&Assists combined chart.

And people rabbit on as if he's been shit this season.

GlastonSpur · 6th May 2008, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by crappycraperson

Situation with Berbatov has changed now. Players wants a move now which will play into buyers hand. Unless Chelsea buy him, think you will sell him for around 20m.

Carrick wanted to move to MUFC also. But that didn't stop us getting nearly 19m for him with far less time left on his contract than Berbatov has - and that was in a pre-inflationary era. And in world terms Berbatov is of a higher class than Carrick was regarded when we sold him.

IMO there's no chance we'll sell Berbatov for around just 1m more than we got for Carrick.

Rowem · 6th May 2008, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by REd FUn DevIl

You know fuck all. You havent saw him play by the way and yes he is the answer.

Manchester United Recall Manucho

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=684732

He's not the answer....YET (you seemed to not read the whole point I made in my post)

I don't care if he's got the potential to be as good as Pele. He won't be ready yet. He hasn't enough experience at a good level. Not just games, but training.

He needs to be in the United camp, learning from our players and coaches. I said this in my previous post, so yes that story is good but it doesn't counter any of the points I made you blind fuck. He needs 18-24 months minimum before we can properly judge his ability and rely on him.

cekscrayons · 6th May 2008, 18:51

[quote=GlastonSpur;4582930]Carrick wanted to move to MUFC also. But that didn't stop us getting nearly 19m for him with far less time left on his contract than Berbatov has - and that was in a pre-inflationary era. And in world terms Berbatov is of a higher class than Carrick was regarded when we sold him.

[b]IMO there's no chance we'll sell Berbatov for around just 1m more than we got for Carrick.[b][quote]

Different manager though. Also I think you are down playing how important Carrick was to that Spurs team when he left.

Hasn't Ramos already said that if Berbatov wants to leave, he can leave.

Ekeke · 6th May 2008, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiketsu_Zorro

Granted Fergie praised him and would probably like to have him in his team, but at the other hand Benzema himself has been quoted numerous times as saying he prefers Italy or Spain to England as the Premiership doesn't appeal to him. He also said that he wants to stay at Lyon for at least one more season to gain more experience.

As much as I would love it to happen, I don't think there's a chance of signing the boy, especially not in the coming transfer window.

We have no chance of signing him. Zero in my opinion. Not this summer anyway. But regardless, that was never my point.

My point is simple. If we bid £21 million for Benzema mid-season, theres nothing to stop us signing a new striker in the summer for big money. Nothing has really changed from then and now. It just wont be him.

Chris H · 6th May 2008, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by REd FUn DevIl

You know fuck all. You havent saw him play by the way and yes he is the answer.

Manchester United Recall Manucho

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=684732

For goodness sake, lad. It's goal.com. There are no quotes. No reliable source has subsequently picked up the story - unless you consider The Malay Mail to be a reliable source of Premiership news.

Don't get too excited. The "article" is completely meaningless. Try to save the 24-point bolded type for a bigger occasion.

GlastonSpur · 6th May 2008, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by cekscrayons

Different manager though. Also I think you are down playing how important Carrick was to that Spurs team when he left.

Hasn't Ramos already said that if Berbatov wants to leave, he can leave.

Different manager, but same club chairman - and he's the one that does any final negotiating on money.

Carrick was important to Spurs that's true. But he still wasn't regarded internationally and domestically as a player in Berbatov's current class.

As for Ramos, I'm not sure which quote you're referring to. But he has said:

""We know the situation of Berbatov and we are calm about it. If a team comes along and pays the asking price the chairman wants, then possibly yes, but we're delighted to have him here."

http://www.clubcall.com/index.jsp?storyID=337587

cekscrayons · 6th May 2008, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlastonSpur

Different manager, but same club chairman - and he's the one that does any final negotiating on money.

Carrick was important to Spurs that's true. But he still wasn't regarded internationally and domestically as a player in Berbatov's current class.

As for Ramos, I'm not sure which quote you're referring to. But he has said:

""We know the situation of Berbatov and we are calm about it. If a team comes along and pays the asking price the chairman wants, then possibly yes, but we're delighted to have him here."

http://www.clubcall.com/index.jsp?storyID=337587

Ok, yeh you are right, and they are all good points that you have made.

The quote I was referring to came from Poyet if i'm not mistaken. Sorry I made a mistake in naming Ramos. Although Poyet was probably just voicing Ramos' views.

6th May 2008, 17:15	#42 (permalink)
REd FUn DevIl First Team Regular Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: I Love Sugarcult Posts: 11,614	Wellbeck and Campbell wont be in the first team squad next season yet. We would have to bring one more striker to our squad apart Manucho who will probably get his work permit. Rooney, Tevez, Manucho and a new one. Saha's future wont affect us.

6th May 2008, 17:32	#43 (permalink)
Red17 Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,757	Didn't Fergie or CQ said Ronnie will be given a fresh challenge as a striker... Personally, I think :- 1. Manucho will be eased into the team, whether next season or the one after - Fergie's priority will be to ensure the player is ready for the challenge first of all. He will be assessed further in pre-season. 2. Fraizer will stay with the senior squad and be given a chance to prove himself. Loan will be a possibility if he fails to make his mark or take his chance. 3. Saha will be gone, if a taker can be found.. 4. We will have 3 senior strikers + 1 younger or less experienced striker to be eased in. 5. Different striking options will be the aim. That means, a striker with a physical presence (more of height, rather than a shorter but robust type like Rooney or Tevez) or exceptional an athlete. Could be a Saha type, a Shearer type, even a Berbatov type and of course Benzema type. The decider will be availability. 6. I don't think we will be buying an established big name striker - not for lack of funds but rather we can't accommodate another 1st 11 player. We may pay big money for a young next big thing though. IMO, the combinations could be:- 1. Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo + Fraizer/Manucho, in which case, we will be looking for a winger - hence perhaps the Valencia connection. 2. Rooney, Tevez, a new £10m-£15m rated striker (Santa Cruz, Vucinic, etc) + Fraizer/Manucho. 3. Rooney, Tevez, Saha, Ronaldo and new winger. 4. Rooney, Tevez, Saha & a young NEXT BIG THING.

6th May 2008, 18:35	#55 (permalink)
Rowem Reserve Team Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,729	Manucho is not the answer for us next season. He's still only a raw talent. Even in the best case scenario I only see him being an option off the bench, and it will take him a while to reach the required level. The guy's been playing Angolan league football ffs, we need him learning and training around great players and coaches for a season or two before we should expect anything. In the mean time we need another option upfront. We have been lacking this season.

6th May 2008, 18:51	#62 (permalink)
cekscrayons Reserve Team Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Maybe it's my birthday, I honestly don't know. I'm 58? There's not much I need - I have plenty of socks (Arsene Wenger) Posts: 972	[quote=GlastonSpur;4582930]Carrick wanted to move to MUFC also. But that didn't stop us getting nearly 19m for him with far less time left on his contract than Berbatov has - and that was in a pre-inflationary era. And in world terms Berbatov is of a higher class than Carrick was regarded when we sold him. [b]IMO there's no chance we'll sell Berbatov for around just 1m more than we got for Carrick.[b][quote] Different manager though. Also I think you are down playing how important Carrick was to that Spurs team when he left. Hasn't Ramos already said that if Berbatov wants to leave, he can leave.