Why we won't spend big on a striker this year

CockneyHammer · 6th May 2008, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by lao

Which automatically means that he's a bad buy? Benzema scoring less than 20 goals in Ligue 1 means he'll score about twelve here, since he's surrounded by other lethal players?

United scores more goals than Tottenham, mind you.

I think he'll be a good signing,though there are plenty of better options out there in terms of both quality and price

Ceks · 6th May 2008, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilish

Adeboyor had more space in France rather then in the EPL and yet he settled down pretty well. So did Drogba while Ravanelli was considered the Serie A donkey (a bit of Italian version of Beattie) and yet he ended up becoming topscorer. Im sure that Weah and Ole where given more space in Norwegian and African leagues then they were given in England and Italy and yet.....they survived didnt they? The bottom line of the story is that you can only score in the league youre playing in and if youre good youll do well no matter where you play.

What we need is a good striker, preferably young (you would be a bit stupid to spend 12 - 15m on an old striker) who would give a different dimension to our forward line when needed. Someone who wouldnt mind to sit on the bench and wait for his chance. Berbatov is not that kind of player.

And whats wrong in not having another 20m rated striker on the bench? Adebayor is good and had costed Arsenal just 3m. Ole was brought to OT for less then 2m. You dont need to spend bucketloads of money to bring a good striker. What you need is a good scouting net and a bit of luck.

1) You have proved my point exactly. Even if(as somebody earlier said) he had the potential of pele, Manucho will still need time to adjust to the premier league. Drogba(who cost 24m!) was awful in his first season at Chelsea, and Adebayor has taken a similar amount of time to find his feet in the PL. If Utd want to challenge on all fronts, and hope to match or better the 99 season, SAF will surely want to bring in a world class forward. Cole/Yorke/Sheringham/Ole were all established, and proven at this level in that season. Will you continue to doubt SAF abilty to juggle 3 world class strikers next season, when considering he has done it before?

2)Why preferably? Like I said you already have 5 young strikers in the squad, who are all still learning their trade. (Rooney/Tevez/Manucho/Welbeck/Campbell)

Surely it makes sense to bring in an older head?
Berbatov fits the bill perfectly, and best of all, he is proven, so there is a much lower risk. £10-15m on a young, perhaps unproven striker will actually prove a greater risk in financial terms. Surely spending another £5-10m on a proven striker would make better sense. Some players like Rooney/Tevez could even learn alot from a player like Berbatov.

It seems silly that you would even want to argue against this.

3)Getting bargains on players like Adebayor/Van Persie/Ole are rare, are you feeling lucky then?

charlenefan · 6th May 2008, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes

Sign Obafemi Martins. Crackin striker. basically, a fit Louis Saha

Except not actually anywhere near as good as a fit Louis Saha

Ceks · 6th May 2008, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyHammer

Berbatov will score less goals at Man United as he will be surrounded with other world class players and the work load will be more evenly shared rather than carrying a mid table team

Quite a strange theory here. So Berbatov will score less at Utd, even though Utd are likely to create a greater amount of goalscoring oppurtunities? Utd are desperate for someonwho is more clinical in front of goal.

Berbatov is a very intelligent player. He is likely to benefit from playing with better and more intelligent players. Who all have intelligent movement on and off the ball.

Basically you are suggesting that Berbatov will play better when surrounded by players like Lennon/Keane/Malbranque/Jenas/Zokora/Huddlestone instead of Rooney/Scholes/Ronaldo/Tevez/Carrick/Giggs..

Im assuming you believe Tevez played better whilst at West Ham, surrounded by lesser players?

Care to back up your theory?

lao · 6th May 2008, 23:07

Berbatov would be first choice striker. Rooney and tevez taking turns being second striker and winger/sub. Of course depending on how good Berbs would co-operate with them.

But he offers something different, a target player. Which would see us waste a considerable amount of less long balls.

Ceks · 6th May 2008, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyHammer

No Tevez is a batter player, i've alwys said that

As for backing up my theory;

Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes, Nani, Flethcher, Park, Giggs, Hargreaves and Anderson are all more likely to score than their counterparts;

Jenas, Tanio, Zakora, Malbranque, Boatang, Taarabat, Huddlestone, Lennon, O'hara,

When mdfielders are capable of scoring they will attack and if they are any good they will score

Where they aren't actually very good and the team relies on one player a lot the midfielders tend to pass to him or rely on him setting them up.

Where Manchester United have a decent midfield who are capable of scoring Berbatov will get less service from them. Also most of the service from Man Utd's midfielders goes to Ronaldo and that will not change as Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo are all much better than Berbatov.

Berbatov also will not be the first choice striker so with limited games you also get limited scoring chances

That probably doesn't make sense to you but it does to me

1) I can not be bother to check this, but I would think that those Tottenham midfielders will actually have scored more/similar amount of goals in comparison with the Utd players you have named(excluding Ronaldo who has been exceptional).
I feel this is a weak point, and the stats are likely to prove this.

2) If the players "aren't actually very good " surely the serive will be worse, and goalscoring oppurtunities will arise less frequently?

3)Berbatov is likely to get more and better service at Utd, like you said, he will be surrounded by better players.

4) I think he would be first choice. if not, he is likely to play as many games as Tevez. Berbatov will allow Rooney to flourish, as Rooney will be playing as a support striker, which is his natural position.

Sam#1 · 6th May 2008, 23:14

We won't be signing Berbatov.

Younited.7 · 6th May 2008, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyHammer

No Tevez is a batter player, i've alwys said that

As for backing up my theory;

Ronaldo, Carrick, Scholes, Nani, Flethcher, Park, Giggs, Hargreaves and Anderson are all more likely to score than their counterparts;

Jenas, Tanio, Zakora, Malbranque, Boatang, Taarabat, Huddlestone, Lennon, O'hara,

When mdfielders are capable of scoring they will attack and if they are any good they will score

Where they aren't actually very good and the team relies on one player a lot the midfielders tend to pass to him or rely on him setting them up.

Where Manchester United have a decent midfield who are capable of scoring Berbatov will get less service from them. Also most of the service from Man Utd's midfielders goes to Ronaldo and that will not change as Rooney, Tevez and Ronaldo are all much better than Berbatov.

Berbatov also will not be the first choice striker so with limited games you also get limited scoring chances

At the end of the day; it is a matter of opinion, nobody can be vindicated yet.

My opinion is that he would start, regularly.

I also believe that:

In a similar vein to the beginning of last season; we would be scoring goals all over the pitch. Once we have that added threat to our front line, and lets not forget Berbatov's playmaking abilities; we would be making extra space for more of our players to score. I think that by signing him; Fergie would reinstate 4-4-2 as our primary formation, giving balance, and stretching the game instead of over relying on the creative abilities of three player or a good ball from midfield. This season Evra, and in recent weeks Hargreaves, have been the only players to take the ball up the byline, wingers, conventional or not, dont exactly exist in the current way we are playing. I still think Ronaldo is best out wide, drifting in, and the same goes for Nani; this is where their pace and skill is best used.

I just have a feeling we are going to sign Berbatov, a sort of premonition about it. Im not a psychologist, and im not in the know, i can explain why i think these things, but i shall not be arsed, i dont want to enter into a debate about why i think them, its mostly interpretation.

CockneyHammer · 6th May 2008, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by united.7

At the end of the day; it is a matter of opinion, nobody can be vindicated yet.

My opinion is that he would start, regularly.

I also believe that:

In a similar vein to the beginning of last season; we would be scoring goals all over the pitch. Once we have that added threat to our front line, and lets not forget Berbatov's playmaking abilities; we would be making extra space for more of our players to score. I think that signing him would make Fergie reinstate 4-4-2 as our primary formation, giving balance, and stretching the game instead of over relying on the creative abilities of three player or a good ball from midfield. This season Evra, and in recent weeks Hargreaves, have been the only players to take the ball up the byline, wingers, conventional or not, dont exactly exist in the current way we are playing. I still think Ronaldo is best out wide, drifting in, and the same goes for Nani; this is where their pace and skill is best used.

I deleted that post as I didn't think it made sense, I was going to re write and try to get my point across better

He may start regulalry but I don't think he will score as many goals as he did at Spurs, he will be a much more effective player but his goal tally will go down. Overall with him in your squad Man Utd will score more goals but his tally will decrease

lao · 6th May 2008, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

We won't be signing Berbatov.

If we run a bigger chance of signing Benzema I hope you're right. Otherwise I see him as the second best thing for us at the moment. Depending on price tag of course..

lao · 6th May 2008, 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyHammer

I deleted that post as I didn't think it made sense, I was going to re write and try to get my point across better

He may start regulalry but I don't think he will score as many goals as he did at Spurs, he will be a much more effective player but his goal tally will go down. Overall with him in your squad Man Utd will score more goals but his tally will decrease

And how is that in any fan's mind a bad thing?

Sam#1 · 6th May 2008, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by lao

If we run a bigger chance of signing Benzema I hope you're right. Otherwise I see him as the second best thing for us at the moment. Depending on price tag of course..

We will sign neither.

Younited.7 · 6th May 2008, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

We will sign neither.

I just have a feeling we are going to sign Berbatov, a sort of premonition about it. Im not a psychologist, and im not in the know, i can explain why i think these things, but i shall not be arsed, i dont want to enter into a debate about why i think them, its mostly interpretation.

Spose we will just have to wait and see.

lao · 6th May 2008, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

We will sign neither.

Thanks for the almighty knowledge. Got any updates on the children TV shows for the summer as well?

Sam#1 · 6th May 2008, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by united.7

I just have a feeling we are going to sign Berbatov, a sort of premonition about it. Im not a psychologist, and im not in the know, i can explain why i think these things, but i shall not be arsed, i dont want to enter into a debate about why i think them, its mostly interpretation.

Spose we will just have to wait and see.

Chelsea will want him.

And we simply don't have the financial muscle to compete with them.

I think we will sign a striker, but (and this will seriously disappoint the muppets), I don't think he'll be a 'big name' player.

CockneyHammer · 6th May 2008, 23:24

Malbranque - 4
Jenas - 4
Huddlestone - 3
Kaboul - 3
Lennon 2
O'Hara - 1

Ronaldo - 30
Nani - 3
Giggs -2
Scholes - 1
Hargreaves - 2
Carrick - 2
Park - 1

As you can see you win by miles mainly down to Ronaldo what would be the interesting stat though is how many of those goals are assists from Berbatov, I would think it's quite a lot

CockneyHammer · 6th May 2008, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by lao

And how is that in any fan's mind a bad thing?

I didn't say it's a bad thing

I think though there are much better options as I said above on price, quality, age, experince and attitude

lao · 6th May 2008, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by united.7

I just have a feeling we are going to sign Berbatov, a sort of premonition about it. Im not a psychologist, and im not in the know, i can explain why i think these things, but i shall not be arsed, i dont want to enter into a debate about why i think them, its mostly interpretation.

Spose we will just have to wait and see.

I wouldn't want to make a psycho analysis on you either. You seem too illogical and most of what you write looks like jibberish to me at the moment anyway mate.

Sam#1 · 6th May 2008, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyHammer

I think though there are much better options as I said above on price, quality, age, experince and attitude

I agree 100%.

Ceks · 6th May 2008, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by cockneyHammer

Malbranque - 4
Jenas - 4
Huddlestone - 3
Kaboul - 3
Lennon 2
O'Hara - 1

Ronaldo - 30
Nani - 3
Giggs -2
Scholes - 1
Hargreaves - 2
Carrick - 2
Park - 1

As you can see you win by miles mainly down to Ronaldo what would be the interesting stat though is how many of those goals are assists from Berbatov, I would think it's quite a lot

Like I said, excluding Ronaldo.

lao · 6th May 2008, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

Chelsea will want him.

And we simply don't have the financial muscle to compete with them.

I think we will sign a striker, but (and this will seriously disappoint the muppets), I don't think he'll be a 'big name' player.

Yeah, cos Chelsea will attract Berbatov. Already having Drogba and Anelka in the same mould. With Pizarro, Shevchenko and Kalou lurking around. Lots of playing time.

CockneyHammer · 6th May 2008, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by cekscrayons

Like I said, excluding Ronaldo.

You can't just exclude Ronaldo

Younited.7 · 6th May 2008, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

Chelsea will want him.

And we simply don't have the financial muscle to compete with them.

I think we will sign a striker, but (and this will seriously disappoint the muppets), I don't think he'll be a 'big name' player.

Yeah i could see that happening, sadly, waste of a great attacking talent.

So its Benzema or nothing (lesser known back-up player)?

Which i can understand, but Chelsea will spend heavily this summer, they wont necessarily gel, but they might start playing football, Fergie needs to get it right. Im sure he will.

Berbatov reminds me so much of watching Cantona, his touch, vision and just outrageous ability to make space for himself with the simplest of fake, dummy, touch or turn. He does not have the same charisma, but he is an absolute magician, and i would love to see him playing for us.

Sam#1 · 6th May 2008, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by lao

Yeah, cos Chelsea will attract Berbatov. Already having Drogba and Anelka in the same mould. With Pizarro, Shevchenko and Kalou lurking around. Lots of playing time.

Drogba will be gone, as will Shevchenko . And probably Pizarro (Is he even still alive?)

Sam#1 · 6th May 2008, 23:34

Sorry, united.7, I can't agree.

I don't want Berbatov at United at all. Good player, but as CH said, there are better options based on price, quality, age, attitude etc

Ceks · 6th May 2008, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam#1

Sorry, united.7, I can't agree.

I don't want Berbatov at United at all. Good player, but as CH said, there are better options based on price, quality, age, attitude etc

You may not, but Ferguson made it quite clear that he wants/wanted Berbatov at OT.

Younited.7 · 6th May 2008, 23:52

Quality-Are there any better options? Eto'o maybe, does not enjoy bench time. Benzema? Debatable

Age-He does not rely on pace, more speed of thought alike another ex-Tottenham player that signed for us. Think about the success he had.

Attitude-He was loyal to Leverkusen, and has been to Tottenham. It is time for him to showcase his talents on the biggest stage, and of course in the biggest stadium (wink wink). I dont see what evidence you have to suggest he has a bad attitude to be honest, he has always come across as quite earnest to me. Fergie has a history

6th May 2008, 23:07	#85 (permalink)
lao A Real Cock Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Surrounded by Swedish Pussies. Posts: 1,984	Berbatov would be first choice striker. Rooney and tevez taking turns being second striker and winger/sub. Of course depending on how good Berbs would co-operate with them. But he offers something different, a target player. Which would see us waste a considerable amount of less long balls.

6th May 2008, 23:14	#87 (permalink)
Sam#1 First Team Regular Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: I'm in love with a girl I can't have :-( (It's not JLS) Posts: 12,521	We won't be signing Berbatov.

6th May 2008, 23:24	#96 (permalink)
CockneyHammer Or just Cock for short Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hiding with the fortunes Posts: 4,222	Malbranque - 4 Jenas - 4 Huddlestone - 3 Kaboul - 3 Lennon 2 O'Hara - 1 Ronaldo - 30 Nani - 3 Giggs -2 Scholes - 1 Hargreaves - 2 Carrick - 2 Park - 1 As you can see you win by miles mainly down to Ronaldo what would be the interesting stat though is how many of those goals are assists from Berbatov, I would think it's quite a lot

6th May 2008, 23:34	#105 (permalink)
Sam#1 First Team Regular Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: I'm in love with a girl I can't have :-( (It's not JLS) Posts: 12,521	Sorry, united.7, I can't agree. I don't want Berbatov at United at all. Good player, but as CH said, there are better options based on price, quality, age, attitude etc