4-2-3-1? 4-3-3? Or Something Else?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by worldinmotion66, Jun 14, 2017.

  1. Jun 20, 2017
    #81

    wolvored Full Member

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    4-1-4-1. An anchor who can pass, in front of the defence to allow the CM/AM and 2 proper wingers to get forward and support the target man/CF
  2. Jun 20, 2017
    #82

    Walters_19_MuFc Full Member

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    Basically a Carrick replacement?

    Unfortunately, there's not many players similar to Carrick out there. If so, then they're not attainable.
  3. Jun 20, 2017
    #83

    RC89 Full Member

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    Crossing the ball instead of stopping, turning back, stopping, then playing the cross would require a similar amount of energy to try get the cross in first time.
  4. Jun 20, 2017
    #84

    wolvored Full Member

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    Someone more solid than Carrick defensively, but where you find these players is another thing. Matic, Fabinho and Bakayoko have all been mentioned. Same as Carrick was different to Keane, these are different to Carrick.
  5. Jun 26, 2017
    #85

    worldinmotion66 Full Member

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    Would have liked us to take a punt on paredes as it seems he may be off to zenit, so definitely attainable and a more dynamic passing anchor man than Carrick. He's tenacious too, just lacks physicality which probably rules him out of mourinho's thinking.
  6. Jun 26, 2017
    #86

    SirMattBugsby Full Member

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    I don't get the "4-3-3 will get the best out of Pogba" argument, especially in our case when we don't have an amazing trio upfront. Yes, the advanced position has worked well for Pogba in the past but with the right partner, I think he's more than capable of excelling in a 2-man midfield, evident in the France-England friendly with Kante.

    If anything, we need an extra body in attack. So if the 4-3-3 is going to be Herrera sitting back and an attacking midfielder partnering Pogba, that's okay. But if it's going to be Herrera advanced with another defensive midfielder.. unless we expect Pogba to get atleast 10 league goals, I'm not sure how that helps us.
  7. Jun 26, 2017
    #87

    Grylte "nothing wrong with some friendly incest, bro"

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    I think people think more about formations than managers do.
    One gk, four in the back, one midfielder to help the defense, the rest attack, with fullbacks as support.
    The attackers obviously have defensive duties aswell, but i doubt many managers are as obsessed with formations as supporters are.
  8. Jun 26, 2017
    #88

    YouOnlyLiveTwice Full Member

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    Exactly. A trio of Perisic/Morata/Mhkitaryan wouldn't give us the neccessary amount of goals.

    4-2-3-1 it is, unless we sign someone out of the blue like Sanchez, which could change everything.
  9. Jun 26, 2017
    #89

    SirMattBugsby Full Member

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    Lot of experienced fans understand that as well. You can always discuss in terms of the respective roles of midfielders. That is what I see while discussing 4-3-3 vs 4-2-3-1, like for example, the role of Pogba, where Herrera will be better in the majority of matches, whether we need that third central midfielder to be attacking or sitting in front of the back four etc.
  10. Jun 26, 2017
    #90

    Grylte "nothing wrong with some friendly incest, bro"

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    I think it's more about players who complement each o
    If you can find the new Keane and Scholes, 2 would work, but normally it won't.
    Most teams have 3 midfielders these days, so using only 2, will give opponents and advantage.
    In 4231, the #10 would have to work alot more defensively, so it would basically be 3 midfielders.
    I prefer 433 with one dm, one b2b and a creative #8.
    I think i remember Mourinho ssying that his 10 is often an 8, or something along those lines.
    Both systems have a 9, two wide players, and 3 between the, and the defense.
  11. Jun 26, 2017
    #91

    Mike09 Full Member

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    I won't be surprised if Jose decides to go with the same system as his Inter's one.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    With Morata plays on Milito's role and Rashford plays on Eto'o role.
  12. Aug 3, 2017
    #92

    LawCharltonBest Obsessive dog poo sniffer & anal about tweets

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    Bumping this because Pre-season showed no real answer to our formation moving forward

    I hate the 3 CBs, but 3-5-2 might get the best out of Matic, Pogba & Lukaku
  13. Aug 3, 2017
    #93

    ovoxo Full Member

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    I think we'll play 3-5-2 in some tough games, like we did against Chelsea. Then we could see the 4-3-3 in the champions league, especially with Matic coming in. Although I still think we'll see the 4-2-3-1 against the majority of the premier league.
  14. Aug 3, 2017
    #94

    jderbyshire Full Member

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    The 3-5-2 has looked good - but do we have enough CBs?

    Bailly, Lindelof, Smalling, Jones (always injured), Rojo (out for most of the season, right?)

    also: Tuanzebe, Fosu-Mensah?
  15. Aug 3, 2017
    #95

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    I don't like the 3 back system, because it places an emphasis on your wing-backs providing a good amount of creativity and our wing-back options aren't exactly the most creative. Nor do I like sacrificing an attacker, when our problem is scoring goals.
  16. Aug 3, 2017
    #96

    jderbyshire Full Member

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    That's why we're after Perisic, though, isn't it.

    Perisic/Shaw at LWB and Valencia/Darmian at RWB (Young 3rd choice for either). Not too bad. Not great either, though like you say.
  17. Aug 3, 2017
    #97

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    Perisic is versatile, so he can fill lots of roles and play them relatively well. Would make sense why we're(or were) after him.

    Still against him coming, because I think there's better players out there and he won't move the needle much.
  18. Aug 3, 2017
    #98

    Grylte "nothing wrong with some friendly incest, bro"

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    I think alot depends on our left side.
    If Shaw or Darmian, can get their shit together, i think they both can be good lwbs, Darmian can also play in the right when Valencia needs a rest.
    Going with 352, Rashford and Martial will get more options as strikers.
    I also think it fits our squad, especially the midfield, best.
    I hate admitting that, since i personally prefer 4231 or 433.
  19. Aug 3, 2017
    #99

    frank lee madeer.. New Member

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    As somebody has already said, formations are overhyped, the important thing if you want to score goals is , your intent. You can play whichever formation you want, but if your first intention is to stifle & make things awkward for your opponent ,you ain't going to create much, whereas , if you set out with the intent to always put them on the back foot, you will be more positive , & therefore more creative.
  20. Aug 3, 2017

    buckooo1978 Full Member

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    have a feeling it will be a 3-4-1-2 in the tough games and 4-2-3-1 in the easier games

    3-4-1-2
    --------------------------DDG--------------------
    ------------Bailly---Lindelof---Rojo-------
    TonyV------Matic------Herrera----Shaw
    -----------------------Pogba--------------------
    ----------------Lukaku----Martial------------

    4-2-3-1

    --------------------------DDG--------------------
    TonyV-----Bailly-------Lindelof---Shaw
    ---------------Matic------Herrera------------
    -----------------------Pogba-----------------------
    Mkhiki-----------Lukaku----Martial--------

    obviously a bit of fluidity in terms of personal - I'm sure there are games where Matic/Herrera/Martial/CBs will be rotated
  21. Aug 4, 2017

    nokillingmoths Full Member

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    No one thought much of moses and alonso a year ago.

    I think 352 makes the most sense really at this point.
  22. Aug 4, 2017

    Walters_19_MuFc Full Member

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    The three formations Jose has played pre-season, are systems that can be changed in game without making any subs.

    See @Invictus post on page 1. Explains it brilliantly.

    De Gea
    Valencia Bailly Lindelof Blind
    Herrera Matic
    Rashford Pogba Perisic?
    Lukaku

    De Gea
    Bailly Lindelof Blind
    Matic
    Valencia Herrera Pogba Perisic?
    Rashford Lukaku

    De Gea
    Valencia Bailly Lindelof Blind
    Matic
    Herrera Pogba
    Rashford Lukaku Perisic?​
  23. Aug 4, 2017

    criticalanalysis Full Member

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    The formations are a great way for players to understand positions and all but I still think Mourinho needs to do more in terms of style/way of playing; not for aesthetics but to get the best out of the players and make our life easier i.e creating patterns of play to create consistent chances.

    It's clear the players were instructed at times in pre-season to high press but it's all very uncoordinated and kind of half-arsed. Many times the opposition were able to play their way out of it and in term turn it in an attacking chance. Against most teams this won't be a worry but that's not the point, we should be smothering teams in possession, pressing, attacking etc.

    We're a hard drilled and very professional team, which that has got us far so Mourinho deserves every credit for that but I expect a bit more with all the technical players at Mourinho's disposal. Hopefully we're able to demolish the 'small' teams because we need that in our locker if we want to title challenge.
  24. Aug 12, 2017 at 19:43

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    Knee jerk I know but watching City tonight I wonder if a 3-5-2 is the answer for us as well especially if we sign a LWB or if Shaw returns to full fitness

    Will certainly get the best out of Rashford and Martial, and Pogba in midfield. It'll also give us the similar number of options from the bench with the likes of Mata and Mhkitaryan (though maybe not as explosive as Sane)

    --------------------De Gea--------------------
    -------Bailly-------Smalling-------Blind-------
    Valencia--Herrera--Matic--Pogba--Shaw
    -------------Lukaku-------Rashford-------------

    Subs: Romero, Lindelof, Darmian, Fellaini, Mata, Mhkitaryan, Martial
  25. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:29

    Dobbs Full Member

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    The only advantage I see is that it allows us to get one of Rashford or Martial on the pitch in their best position. Not to be sniffed at I suppose but the wide positions look dreadful. It's more likely to be Darmian than Shaw and Valencia just doesn't have the creativity.
  26. Aug 12, 2017 at 20:39

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    Is Valencia worse than Walker?
  27. Aug 12, 2017 at 21:31

    Dobbs Full Member

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    He is.

    Valencia has lots of qualities but I sometimes think they mask his drawbacks.

    Then we have the left hand side of the pitch. With a wingback we'd be banking on Shaw being fit and producing form we haven't seen for some time. I think he's capable but it's a risk.
  28. Aug 13, 2017 at 00:28

    Mike09 Full Member

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    I think Lingard, Young and Darmian can also play in there just to be a workhorse player. And as per usual we will rely on our right flank more which I don't see it as an issue with creativity. Valencia, Herrera and Pogba can supply good ball for Lukaku & Rashford. And Blind's long ball might be able to pick up Rashford & Lukaku's run as well.

    Whatever the formation is, I think we should play any formation that allow us to play both Rashford & Lukaku more central together IMO.