5 best passers in each league?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Fortitude, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Dec 6, 2017
    #41

    TheeAma New Member

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    Pogba ain't a great passer of the ball. He has good range but his passing is average.

    1.KDB
    2.Fabregas
    3.David Silva
    4.Ozil
    5.Eriksen

    Spain: Inesta,Messi,Kroos,Modric,Rakitch
  2. Dec 6, 2017
    #42

    BBRBB Full Member

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    Without being biased at all Alves is definitely a top 5 passer in L1 too!

    Of course it's very difficult to compare experts in safe passing and midfield domination like Motta or Verratti to risk takers and chance creators like ADM or Pastore who misplace more passes but rack assists.
  3. Dec 6, 2017
    #43

    hasanejaz88 Full Member

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    Crucify me but I don't think Pogba is that great a passer to be above Ozil/Silva, he's a very flashy player who has a lot of creativity in his passes but also misplaces quite a few and I don't think he has the playmaking vision/consistency of players like Ozil, Silva. Being able to play the flashy chip pass or backheel flick is great, but sometimes playing the simpler pass is the more effective option. Ozil, Silva show an incredible ability to be able to pick the right pass each moment.

    For the PL I'd have (no order):

    Ozil
    Silva
    De Bruyne
    Fabregas
    Eriksen/Pogba

    For the Bundesliga:

    Thiago - Creativity and ability, but can attempt too many difficult passes (similar to Pogba)
    Kimmich - Combination of exceptional crossing and good short passing
    Weigl - Efficient and accurate passer but not creative enough to be a playmaker yet
    Gotze - Creative and superb vision. He'l be the best as he slowly finds his form again
    Forsberg - Crossing and final though balls on the counter. A bit out of form this season though.

    One thing I realized while trying to think of Bundesliga passers is that there is a real lack of quality playmakers (CAM) in the league at the moment. Compared to the Premier League where you'l find quality playmakers even in sides not necessarily competing for the title (Arsenal, Spurs), you can't find similar quality in sides like Leipzeg, Schalke. While obviously there is a gulf in overall quality in the sides, I would atleast hope there are talented players coming through who can achieve the levels of those in the EPL. Right now I don't see many (Havertz is the only hope).

    That being said, there is clearly more talent in the winger positions (Brandt, Coman, Pulisic, Harit, Sabitzer, Hazard). Clear preference for sides to attack on the counter, using quick wingers, and a preference to have holding players in the middle rather than attacking playmakers.
  4. Dec 6, 2017
    #44

    Stacks Full Member

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    Cesc is the best over the top passer in the league for many years. His assists and chance creation stats usually back this up also
  5. Dec 6, 2017
    #45

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Carrick can play a terrific pass into the feet of a striker, but that isn't a final ball. It doesn't lead to a clear chance for our centre forward. I asked for evidence because it simply doesn't happen. I'll often have this conversation with other fans and when push comes shove they can't substantiate their point of view. If he was one of the premier passers of his generation then you'd find no problem providing evidence of all the assists, through balls et all he's supplied in the last couple of seasons. Obviously you can't, because it simply does not happen. Hes a superb passer when it comes to dictating tempo and working it out from the back, but he doesn't find the final ball nearly enough for someone of his supposed pedigree. Blind has provided more key passes in each of the last three seasons, and that's playing plenty of those games at centreback.

    We've barely played a three man midfield this season. You're nuts if you think a fully fit Carrick would be starting games for us. We play a 3 man midfield only when we are up against top opposition. Herrera's ball winning ability and Fellaini's ability in the air will trump the requirement of a second passer in Jose's eyes every time.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  6. Dec 6, 2017
    #46

    HTG Full Member

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    Bundesliga:
    Thiago
    Rudy
    Weigl
    Baier
    James

    Don’t know about the order, but Thiago is number one.
  7. Dec 6, 2017
    #47

    NotBrendanRodgers honest Banned

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    De Bruyne
    Coutinho
    Silva
    Ozil
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  8. Dec 6, 2017
    #48

    cyberman Full Member

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    Is Countinho a great passer or does he just have a shot on him?
    I wouldn't even say he's the best passer at Liverpool.
  9. Dec 6, 2017
    #49

    Hugh Jass Full Member

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    :lol::lol:
  10. Dec 6, 2017
    #50

    NotBrendanRodgers honest Banned

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    He is a great passer imo and can put the ball through the eye of a needle (sorry for the cliche).. He has set up so many chances for Salah this season with great defence splitting passes, and even when Suarez was here he was doing that and was a key player in our 13/14 season
  11. Dec 6, 2017
    #51

    OL29 Full Member

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    I'm guessing you're an opposition supporter because anyone who watches united week in week out would know how ridiculous this sounds.
  12. Dec 6, 2017
    #52

    meninred New Member

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    You forgot david silva.other than that no argument.
  13. Dec 6, 2017
    #53

    NotoriousISSY $10mil and I fecked it up!

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    He tends to play quite advanced for Chelsea doesn’t he? I seem to remember him planted not too far from our 18 yard box in the most recent clash.
  14. Dec 6, 2017
    #54

    Infordin Full Member

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    When I think of great passers, I usually think of passers who create chances. Busquets almost never loses the ball or misplaces a pass, but he rarely delivers the Hollywood final ball.

    I guess I should change my criteria.
  15. Dec 6, 2017
    #55

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    Gylfi is better than either Coutinho and Wilshere.
  16. Dec 6, 2017
    #56

    belanglos New Member

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    Hey, since I already read a lot I thought: why not register? this forum seems very polite!

    my top passers from the Bundesliga:

    Bayern: Thiago and Kimmich
    Dortmund: Weigl
    Leipzig: Keita/Forsberg
    Schalke: Goretzka

    Can't decide on a Top5 though.
  17. Dec 6, 2017
    #57

    Lawman Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

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    That’s just mental @ivaldo, Blind is not even great on the ball, he’s good on it but nothing special. Carrick was/is a magnificent passer of the ball.
  18. Dec 6, 2017
    #58

    Stacks Full Member

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    In 2014 when they won it, I think I recall him chipping balls from deep and playing Costa in with high frequency. I believe Cesc has always been and will always be the best passer in the league
  19. Dec 6, 2017
    #59

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Come on, even for you that’s a gross exaggeration.

    Then show me all these examples of Carricks putting in the final pass. As I’ve said, for the last THREE seasons Blind has produced more key passes in total and per 90 minutes, and that’s playing large numbers of games at centreback. You can talk in generalities and vaguearies as much as you like, but at some point you’re going to have to substantiate the claim.
  20. Dec 6, 2017
    #60

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    This is why we need to go back to the old newbie system.
  21. Dec 6, 2017
    #61

    Yagami Full Member

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    Yep, Alves is up there. It was hard to leave him out but I didn't feel like I could leave any of the others out either!
    I was thinking of a BL one and I would've surely had Kimmich in there. What do you make of his passing ability?
  22. Dec 6, 2017
    #62

    VancouverUtdFan Full Member

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    KDB
    Fabregas
    D Silva
    Pogba
    Ozil
  23. Dec 6, 2017
    #63

    NotoriousISSY $10mil and I fecked it up!

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    Why does the best ‘passer’ in a thread where the OP relates to the likes of Alonso etc need a mention substantiating with numbers?

    Stats are not going to support every suggestion. Stats don’t support every suggestion in life.

    The stats culture is tiresome. It’s like saying Gerrard and Lampard were better than Scholes, because stats.
  24. Dec 6, 2017
    #64

    HTG Full Member

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    He’s great, especially his crossing. He could very well be up there.
  25. Dec 6, 2017
    #65

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    So now we are refusing to provide examples or evidence, and we are ignoring stats. Compelling argument you're building here.
  26. Dec 6, 2017
    #66

    NotoriousISSY $10mil and I fecked it up!

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    Provide me with evidence of where Daley Blind has been the key component in a title winning midfield.

    Provide me evidence of where Daley Blind has been able to hold a midfield together himself for more than, I don't know 90 minutes?

    If Daley Blind was THAT good a passer of the ball, Jose Mourinho would not refrain from actually using him in midfield.

    But let's ignore that too :rolleyes:
  27. Dec 6, 2017
    #67

    MZX7 @Vato @Varun @moses @Hectic @Solius

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    Ha ha :lol:

    Carrick is one of the good passers around.

    De Bruyne us probably the best in the PL right now.

    Pogba can get up there with a little more experience and maturity.
  28. Dec 6, 2017
    #68

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Ah, so instead of actually tackling the issue head on, you ask the most subjective thing you can think of. Outstanding counter argument!

    Where did I say he was THAT good of a passer? Being a midfielder and a good passer are two entirely different things. It’s like saying Chicarito isn’t a great finisher because he’s not at a top club. Nonsense logic.

    No evidence? Didn’t think so. Keep those fingers in yours ears, bud. :wenger:


    Edit: it’s not important anyway, this is about the top 5 passers in the league, and neither of them are on it.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  29. Dec 6, 2017
    #69

    Ødegaard formerly MrEriksen

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    PL:
    Pogba
    KdB
    Eriksen
    D. Silva
    Fabregas

    In about that order.
  30. Dec 6, 2017
    #70

    NotoriousISSY $10mil and I fecked it up!

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    Sorry all - wayyyyy off track.

    League Stats: Because Stats are life.

    Carrick 2012/13 - 88% accuracy, 37 chances created - 36 apps: 1.027 chances/game
    Carrick 2013/14 - 88% accuracy, 28 chances created - 29 apps: 0.965 chances/game
    Carrick 2014/15 - 90% accuracy, 8 chances created - 18 apps: 0.44 chances/ game
    Carrick 2015/16 - 86% accuracy, 10 chances created - 28 apps: 0.35 chances/game
    Carrick 2016/17 - 89% accuracy, 12 chances created - 23 apps: 0.52 chances/game

    Summary: That's 0.708 chances/game and average accuracy of 88.2%

    Blind 12/13 - can't seem to find any stats for dear Daley because he was in a shit league (but all summaries will be based on averages), but I notice he is referred to as 'player of the year at left back'.
    Blind 13/14 (Ajax) - 87% accuracy, 11 chances created - 29 apps: 0.38 chances/game
    Blind 14/15 (United) - 88% accuracy, 17 chances created - 25 apps: 0.68 chances/game
    Blind 15/16 - 84% accuracy, 25 chances created - 35 apps: 0.714 chances/game
    Blind 16/17 - 86% accuracy, 27 chances created - 23 apps: 1.17 chances/game

    Summary: That's 0.714 chances/game and average accuracy of 86.25%

    Blind has also been known to take on set-piece duties and perform as a left back (notably in his Ajax days and under Jose Mourinho), a role in which crossing is often used - therefore popping a cross on someones head contributes to 'chances created' - as well as playing the CB role also.

    All I've substantiated is...nothing, because I'd rather substantiate my view with the following, as opposed to quantifying with stats:
    Blind: http://www.squawka.com/news/blind-on-best-passers-hes-played-with/527244#iap4dAcRkUfu81Hb.97
    http://www.squawka.com/news/young-c...rs-ive-played-with/520371#vOczELM3ci0DxIJ3.97
    http://www.squawka.com/news/herrera...e-ever-played-with/522891#gdA08jpxbb6v2roZ.97
    http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/2406976/scholes-praise-for-carrick
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/pep-guardiola-says-michael-carrick-10307986
    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...nchester-united-michael-carrick-a7773676.html

    Is that ok bud?
  31. Dec 6, 2017
    #71

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    That's an awful lot of work to put in to prove yourself wrong. You've been working on it so long it hadn't eve

    So to clarify, you've confirmed Blinds final ball (chance creation), the very point I was arguing, has been better for the last THREE seasons. In a thread about who is CURRENTLY the better passer.

    Great work! More than OK, bud. :lol:

    Anyway. Neither of them are in the top 5 in the league, so bit of a moot point.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  32. Dec 6, 2017
    #72

    NotoriousISSY $10mil and I fecked it up!

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    You do know chance creation is not the only measure of passing ability right, especially when one is fresh from a season as a left back/wing back and on corner duty more often than not?

    But I'll leave you to continue to believe whatever it is you believe.

    If Blind was that good a passer, he wouldn't be languishing as a back up LCB and second to Ashley Young at left-back and never ever play in midfield for Jose Mourinho. And even you should be able to admit that, not that you will because STATS.
  33. Dec 6, 2017
    #73

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    You do know that this had already been touched upon, prior to the half way post you quoted, right? If you’re going to come charging into someone else’s conversation, at least bother to read the context of the posts.

    I don’t think he is that good a passer, no matter how often you’re willing to say it. As I’ve said before, twice in fact, I don’t think either of them are in the top 5 in the league. Your point might have some validity if Carrick hadn’t accumulated even less appearances than Blind over recent years. Check your OWN stats for that.

    :lol: I still can’t beleive you put all that time and effort in a post just to prove me right! Brilliant!
  34. Dec 6, 2017
    #74

    NotoriousISSY $10mil and I fecked it up!

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    Nifty little edits make anything valid.

    Mkhitaryan is the best passer at United, because he has created the most chances per game on average than any player in the squad. Stats said so.
  35. Dec 6, 2017
    #75

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Anyway, as entertaining as it's been to watch you use stats that support my point to argue against it (:lol:), I'm done. Its been a pleasure.
  36. Dec 6, 2017
    #76

    SambaBoy Full Member

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    Not going to read through the argument and stats, but Carrick is a much better passer than Blind.

    Blind would probably be better in a drill where first one to clip it into a bin from 30 yards wins but Carrick's nouse, intelligence, touch and vision make him a much better passer.

    Carrick's drilled balls through the pressing lines is very underrated, into the strikers feet with purpose rather than a 50 yard floated ball to a non dangerous position.
  37. Dec 6, 2017
    #77

    Stacks Full Member

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    Would love to know what inspired this order?

    According to squawka - On Average
    total forward passes per game = KDB
    Total passes = Silva
    Pass completion = Silva
    Key Passes = Cesc by quite a margin
    Chance creation = Cesc (Slightly ahead of KDB but miles ahead of everyone else)
    Assists = Pogba
    Pass length = Cesc

    If you do per 90 min on squawka, Cesc sweeps the lot practically. I have to look at arbitry stats because everything else will be fan bias and singular moments instead of consistency.
  38. Dec 6, 2017
    #78

    Culero New Member

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    Apart from one person putting Busquets on his list his omission insane. Now if you start arguing about the range of passing being less than other players than you have changed the criteria to greatest range. Put it simply, how many players in world football does the role of Busquets to a comparable level....? Yeah change your top 5 guys.
  39. Dec 6, 2017
    #79

    Tom Van Persie No relation

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    Silva
    Ozil
    Pogba
    De Bruyne
    Fabregas
  40. Dec 7, 2017
    #80

    Mcking Full Member

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    I don't agree with his list too, but you don't have to use total passes, key passes, chance creation and assists to judge who the best passer is. Putting it into context, Man city usually pass and keep possession more than us, so their players realistically likely to have more stats than ours.