Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Mickey, Apr 4, 2012.
My brothers team, at the age of 11, nearly folded because of that stupid rule.
Many others did.
That's a bullshit rule in itself.
You need a reason for it robo. You can't just do stuff for the giggles. If you're going to do one, you have to be fair about it. It's all or nothing, it shouldn't be one rule for one and one for another.
Because men are "in general" stronger than women, so having a separate women's game allows most women to play competitive football. Just like how 18 year olds are "in general" stronger than 16 year olds, so having a seperate under 16's game allows most under 16's to play competitive football.
And how is it a bullshit rule in itself How should it be done?
It simply doesn't make sense. Okay a is stronger than b, so a can't play with b. Yet b can play with a. Well that's the same result. They're both still playing together.
The argument that I've always seen for allowing women into football is in the interests of fairness. It isn't fair for them not to be able to play with men, it's sexist, etc etc.
Well the same would be true of both sides. You can't concede to one side on the grounds of fairness, but keep the other side where they are on the same terms you just conceded you couldn't uphold for the other group.
And that system is fine. What doesn't make sense for me is a completely mixed game which will inevitbly lead to less woman in football or some bizarre system where you keep the woman's game an then let other women in to the men's game. I dont see what the problem is with the two games as they are now.
As for coaching, well of men can ref and coach in the women's then I think it should work both ways and I imagine in the next few years there will be some womens coaches around the league, not managers but coaches which is a good step.
Because there may one day be a woman who can play for a top Premier League team. This woman may be able to get 100,000 pound a week in the men's game, but because she isn't allowed to enter it can only get 50,000 pound a year.
Equally there may one day be a women's league which is as popular as the men's. A male tennis player could enter the women's and equally make a load of money. Like I said either one system in which if there are women one day good enough to make it then they will, or three systems. A women's, a men's and a mixed.
Women's, Men's and mixed is perfect, and I am perfectly happy with that. But I know someone will say "well why does the men's leagues have to be corrupted".
Why would it corrupt the men's? If its 3 separate entities then I don't see how anyone can argue.
How many men would want to play in a separate mixed league? Who would watch it?
Okay, but does the men's league turn into the mixed league and a new men's league created? Or does a mixed league get created?
If the men's leagues suddenly became mixed. Between 0-5 women would get into the top European leagues. So to answer your question, none of the would care as it wouldn't change anything.
Then making a separate men's league would be a no go as it'd end up with conference level players and no one would watch. So there'd effectively just be a women's league and a mixed league, which is what people are against.
only skimming the thread, but if you cant see why a see why a 16 year old can play u18 football but an 18 cant play u16 football, god help you. Its in the name. 18 years and UNDER.
The FA's banned women's football for a hundred years and wouldn't let them play at stadiums which had men's football on. In this way, the English Leagues aren't the "men's English Leagues" they are the "only English Leagues", whilst the women's leagues are the "Women's leagues". So in my mind that is the exact situation you have at the moment.
Manchester United have 140 years of football whereas female clubs have 20. Manchester United aren't "Manchester United Men's Football Club", they are "Manchester United Football Club".
If you really wan't to keep the men and women's game separate, the men's game should pay the women's game a few billion pounds as compensation for monopolising the game of football for 100 years. All Football clubs should be renamed "Men's football clubs" and every men's football club should put money towards the creation of a mixed league with the women's game.
But that's not going to happen. Male football is football because we banned women's football for 100 years. Yes women are in general, weaker and slower than men, but if one could play at that quality then preventing her from joining those leagues is just a continuation of the 100 years of segregation that football underwent in the first place.
Someone help me out here.
Hope Powell is perfectly capable of coaching or managing a professional mens team. Whether she wants to or would be given a chance is another matter entirely. I doubt she would even want to, she is passionate and committed to the womens game, having been a player coach and manager.
Just at local level I know a couple of women down here who are perfectly capable of coaching a mens team in out top amateur league but none of them have any interest to do so.
Point is I believe that women are easily capable of coaching a pro team. But how many out there have that ambition to do so is a different story. There are high end jobs for women coaches within the womens leagues.
My experience of coaching at both top end male and female amateur divisions is that coaching a womens team is a more rewarding and enjoyable experience. Womens football isnt as big in pro terms by a massive amount as the mens game but it still has all the intensity, desire, drama, skill, tactical intrigue as is available to coaches of the mens game.
No women would get into a Ryman league side.
Indeed, but some of the other European leagues might be below that level
Edit - After all, this was the conference: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/fa_cup/4139315.stm
Admittedly several of those United players went onto find that the conference was about their level. Actually the Djemba twins nearly creaped into the Champions League groups stage this year.
I think the physical attributes of men and women will mean we wont see women ever playing in the EPL etc.
Ive coached boys, girls, youth and senior football of both sexes for years now. Im also coaching at regional rep level. Over the years in kids teams I have had a couple of very talented girls play in my boys teams and once they hit 14 the local fa here says they have to then switch to female only sides. From my experience from about 12 onwards the strength and speed of boys starts to leave the girls behind and there comes a point where its harder for the girls to compete. Having said that the 3 girls who played in the boys teams I coached from age 7 till 14 were essentially my best players in those teams. they were more skillful, read the game better, listened and learned faster at training and were more dedicated. I would love to see a female player make it into a top pro mens team because there are some out there skillful and gifted enough to do it, Marta being a good example but I doubt Marta could handle the higher pace and physicality of the EPL etc.
I think the saddest thing is general male attitude to female football. Womens football is an asset to the game of football on many many levels.
Marta would easily cope with the shitty Ryman league.
Personally, I wouldn't mind women playing in the 'men's' leagues and the argument that it would be unfair to not let men play in women's league isn't a problem as I don't see anyone ever wanting to do that. But I'm not really talking about what I think should happen, but what could happen. I think having a men's, a women's and a mixed league is totally unworkable, and public opinion seems to be against simply making our leagues mixed.
Not a chance, cf tennis if you think she'd have a hope.
Thanks for that, it's wonderful to here someone with some genuine knowledge of the female game!
The thing that strikes me is how different players find different roles for themselves if they have the skill. Scholes, Sheringham, Giggs, Yorke and Beckham have all done it amongst ex or current United players, and it's hardly unique to us.
One day there may be a freak woman who simply has the attributes of a man, and could play in the men's leagues and who is limited just as men are. But many players overcompensate slow pace and low fitness for technique and end up somewhere or another, although many usually have the pace first.
I just don't see a reason that a woman couldn't manage to fit in with the professional men's game with her technique overcoming her fitness. The most technical players are often tiny because they had to do the same thing. And this is without thinking about a "freak super-fit woman"
I'm hoping if a woman ever has the *cough* balls to attempt to play in the men's leagues and finds a club willing to buy her, that the EU will find that men's leagues cannot keep women out but women can keep men out.
Equality is all well and good but men and women aren't equal in strength. As already said, I wouldn't have a 18 year old in a 16 year old league, but I would have a 16 year old in an 18 year old's league.
Its the fecking ryman league and its not tennis. Marta is more skilful than any ryman league player, she also reads the game and has more vision than any of the donkeys in the ryman league.
She would have controlled and passed the ball to a team mate before any ryman league donkey could have got within 10 meters of her. EPL, Championship, div 1 and div 2 would be too hard but Ryman league hahahahahha fecking hell you are funny. Bet you havent even watched Marta play.
Solveig Gulbrandsen > Jordan Henderson, and it's not even close.
I've seen Marta (and the Ryman which you probably haven't recently if at all) and she isn't as skilful as the forwards in the Ryman, before you get on to speed and strength. You can't be serious.
I am fairly sure that's absolute bollocks.
Another opinionated chap who hasn't ever seen a Ryman league game.
You're right, I haven't. I have, however, seen plenty of games at higher levels, and seen plenty of players who have succeeded at far higher levels. And that makes your statement ridiculous.
The standard of women's football is absolutely atrocious. The reason players like Marta look so good is because the goalkeepers are woeful, and the defences are even worse.
Then you have no idea what you are talking about.
Her much-vaunted 'skill' is like freestyling - it doesn't translate into game play at any real level. There was a Swedish guy on here whose U17 team played the national side in a friendly and predictably thrashed them.
Same with South American football then.
Chris Smalling came from there to be fair. The Conference has professional teams these days, the next 2 tiers (5 divisions) are all semi-pro I believe. It's not a low level really.
I'd agree entirely with this. Mixed football will never be an issue because of the gulf between men and women's football. There's no comparable sport where men and women can compete.
The usual under-appreciation of the standard of football at Conference level or equivalent. The football might be direct and risk-averse, but throw your average Ryman league player into an amateur match and their touch, awareness and speed of thought would stand out a mile. On top of that, there's a physical gulf between men's and women's football which would be too immense to bridge, even at the semi-pro level.
Mixed football would end up been the death of the game, what next? mixed rugby? mixed boxing? women have their sports and men have ours I don't really see the big deal.
The big deal is if one could play at a high level in the mens game, and say earn 100,000 a week as a result, but was not allowed purely due to her sex, it would be rather immoral to stop her from trying, and in my opinion illegal too.
How would mixed teams be the death of the game? Oh no a conference team played a female, *bang* game dead.
Not really, one person has "under appreciated it", one person has said that the best female could walk into it, and everyone else is under appreciating the women's game. I agree with the rest.
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