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A new defensive line (not OTT, just be realistic)

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by Edgar Allan Pillow, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. Feb 1, 2018
    #41

    Cliche Guevara Full Member

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    What I’d like to see is DDG kick it long from the start.

    Too often he plays it out to Smalling or Jones who stumble around, pass it back and forward to each other the hastily knock it back to Dave, under pressure, who then has to boot it to feck.

    That would help things. Or at least throw it out to the midfield.

    And we need Bailly back ASAP he’s a massive miss.
  2. Feb 1, 2018
    #42

    Inter Yer Nan Full Member

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    Perhaps just a new right back and play three in the middle in tough games so that we can see the best of Pogba and keep it tight in the middle. We aren't in need of a huge overhaul. Our problems are further up the pitch.
  3. Feb 1, 2018
    #43

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    I wasn’t talking left back but I disagree about him being horrible there.
  4. Feb 1, 2018
    #44

    Patchbeard Full Member

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    Our defence might the joint best in the league on paper...but don't underestimate De Gea's giant influence on that. The amount of saves the guy makes every game...at least it's never a dull game for him.

    If he were to go then I'd fear we may get a lot more exposed, hopefully we won't see the day!
  5. Feb 1, 2018
    #45

    friendlytramp More full of crap than a curry house toilet

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    Shaw-Bonucci-Bailly-Valencia
  6. Feb 1, 2018
    #46

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers

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    Of our current personnel, I'm comfortable only with Bailly.

    Shaw - I likes him. Undecided.

    Jones is a useful rotation option...but somehow doesn't inspire consistency. Despite good performances, I somehow keep fearing that goofup which seems just around the corner and inevitable.

    Bailly - Settled in!

    Valencia - To be used in rotation considering his age. We need a successor and regular starter.

    Blind - Like him. Useful as a backup/rotation player to have in bench.

    Less said about others, the better.
  7. Feb 2, 2018
    #47

    RepardReece New Member

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    Jones has been solid... at times, but if you have actually watched all the games (I have, apart from Spurs, stopped at 70), he makes wayyyy to many mistakes. He's a defender that can play at a team such as Everton, but definitely not a top 6 team. And if you actually read what I wrote I said this already. He's prone to making mistakes, not what a team that should be challenging for the title want.

    If you've been watching games, you will also notice that Lindelof started to make progress, give him time and he should end up a solid defender. Vidic took a year, SAF took many before he started to deliver success. Just because Lindelof hasn't made a good start doesn't mean he never will produce.
  8. Feb 2, 2018
    #48

    Loon Full Member

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    I think if we had people up top capable of taking that ball, and playing others in, that would be a switchable tactic, but we haven’t got a Mark Hughes type at the moment.
  9. Feb 2, 2018
    #49

    Loon Full Member

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    I personally think we need an organiser in defence, somebody like a Bruce or Ferdinand. To play alongside the promising Bailly. We’re defensively tight because we’re defensively set-up. Be nice to have a reliable defensive unit which would allow the front people to operate more efficiently.
  10. Feb 2, 2018
    #50

    Ikon Full Member

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    ^^Completely Agreed^^
    I've never made secret that I am not convinced by any of our Central defenders, (with the exception of Bailly).
    When I see Jones, Smalling, Rojo or Lindelof being called into action, my heart is in my mouth, but in the "Good ol days" of Rio, Vidic, Stam, Johnsen, Berg, Bruce, Pallister I never, ever felt nervous about them.
    Of course, those guys had bad games, but it was always unexpected and I always knew it was just a blip.

    This current crop though, I always feel that there is a calamity just waiting to happen..

    Also, I think our defensive record is clouded by the fact that we have the best Keeper in the World.
    Without De Gea between the sticks we'd have easily shipped in a dozen more goals this season. Look at the Arsenal away game as a prime example.

    We really lack a dominant leader in there, and it really wouldn't surprise me if Jose is thinking about having a punt for Varane or even Umtiti to partner Bailly.
    I pray that De Gea stays with us, but if he is going to Madrid, I'm sure that Jose will want Varane in exchange.

    I also believe that Shaw is on trial for the remainder of the season, and that if he doesn't 100% nail down that LB berth as his own, then Sandro will be on Mourinho's shopping list too.


    Valencia.....Varane......Bailly......Shaw/Sandro
  11. Feb 2, 2018
    #51

    whatwha Sniffs Erricksson’s diarrhea

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    Vidic took a few months.
  12. Feb 2, 2018
    #52

    RC89 Full Member

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    De Gea has made about twice the number of saves of Courtois, Ederson etc. Shit defence, brilliant keeper.
  13. Feb 2, 2018
    #53

    Hawks2008 Full Member

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    Tbh we need Lindelof to come good. Seeing how dire Smalling and Jones were on the ball yesterday was maddening and if he can develop into a strong defensive presence to match his ball-playing abilities then he'd be a fine partner for Bailly. Both he and Bailly are 23 so have room to grow but we haven't seen much of them together so I'd like to see if they can form a capable partnership or even a 3ATB with Rojo before we go spending on a another CB.

    Fullbacks are a bit more complicated. Valencia is defensively pretty sound and has great athletic capabilities but often going forward his crossing is poor and when a defender blocks his path he just passes backwards or sideways instead of trying to beat them off the dribble. Wouldn't mind seeing us bring in an attacking RB as an understudy for him who we can rotate and slowly phase Tony out (I still love the guy but at 32 it wont be long before we see the decline). As for LB, Shaw looks like he's turned a corner under Jose but I'm still sceptical, could definitely see Mourinho dropping into the market for a LB.

    In all I think we have pretty decent defenders at the club without having any in the World-Class bracket. I wont be surprised if we end up signing a fullback or two but more than this we need another midfielder who can help out the defence. Jose seems to be in love with the 4-2-3-1 but it isn't going to work so long as Pogba is one of the 2 holders as he is a liability off the ball. The Spurs game highlighted how unbalanced our midfield is with only Matic defending, they bypassed us constantly through the middle. I think in a 4-3-3 we could play Pogba in a free role but we need the third midfielder to help out Matic, maybe Herrera can be that player with his intensity but with the Manager commenting on us bringing in a midfielder it seems likely we'll make a marquee signing in the middle of the pitch.
  14. Feb 2, 2018
    #54

    AgentP Full Member

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    Our defenders just had one bad game. No need to change the whole back line.
  15. Feb 2, 2018
    #55

    Escobar Poster originally known as Michel04

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    We need a RB and a CB. I dont understand why we still have not bought a RB especially when you see that there were quality options on the market
  16. Feb 2, 2018
    #56

    Andycoleno9 Full Member

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    Varane 60 mil or bonucci for 40 mil. Sandro for 50 mil. So 100mil will do.
    Valencia- bailly, bonucci- sandro

    Sell jones for 24.99, smalling 24.99, darmian for 15 and you have half of that money.
  17. Feb 2, 2018
    #57

    Kostov Full Member

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    Can we get a CB that can win a fecking header for a change? Somebody over 1.9m would be nice, thanks.
  18. Feb 2, 2018
    #58

    Jaybomb Banned

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    Valencia Bailly Rojo Sandro

    Unrealistic: Pique for Rojo
  19. Feb 2, 2018
    #59

    Zlatattack Full Member

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    This. We need mature experienced defenders.
  20. Feb 2, 2018
    #60

    londonredmaniac I suffer delusions of grandeur

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    Indeed
  21. Feb 2, 2018
    #61

    M Bison Full Member

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    Not sure you're right there, i dont think there's many out there, who are available and you could say are better than Valencia? I for one like him and think he's worthy of a first team slot. Dont know why he's under question myself.

    I'd have him as a starter next year with TFM as backup.

    Spend the money elsewhere.
  22. Feb 2, 2018
    #62

    NotQuiteManc Full Member

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    Defensively we are fine but offensively against well organised team, not as fine. I think if they played and attack well, result would have been different if they score two.
  23. Feb 2, 2018
    #63

    reddevilzZ Full Member

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    Someone with sense...kudos man !
  24. Feb 2, 2018
    #64

    Bestietom Full Member

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    Mourinho likes Umtiti and Varane. Bailly has to be there so I expect him to go with 3 CB's from next season.
  25. Feb 2, 2018
    #65

    Trizy Full Member

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    We're fine at the back if we have a fully fit back 4. Valencia-Jones-Bailey-Shaw are all brilliant players.

    Another potential class CB and potential world class RB to take over from Tony V. would be ideal.
  26. Feb 2, 2018
    #66

    Craig Ward Full Member

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    This.
    Perfectly put.
    Bar FB our CB's are ok.

    Midfield is in need of 2x additions
  27. Feb 2, 2018
    #67

    Infra-red Full Member

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    The fullbacks and central midfield are a greater area of concern than the cb's, which are not great, but passable.
  28. Feb 2, 2018
    #68

    Long Ball Full Member

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    We have a great crop coming through in fosu mensah, Tuanzebe and even possibly Mitchell given his loan form - in rotation with shaw. In 2/3 seasons the defence could be very strong. If Mitchell isn't favoured then there Ryan S from Fulham or tierney

    Lindelof still needs the benefit of the doubt too like evra & vidic
  29. Feb 2, 2018
    #69

    SwSw Banned

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    Why do we need a new back line? Lindelof and Baily is good players. Let's get them fit and give them a run. I'm tired of watching smalling boot the ball out under the slightest pressure.
  30. Feb 2, 2018
    #70

    Rozay Not good at posting fixture lists

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    Defence is possibly the least of our worries as a whole, although we have questions at full back. I believe Mensah will answer some (one) of those questions, and I’m not sure about Shaw still. I was more in favour of persisting with him when it appeared much of our budget would need to be committed to a forward, however, with the acquisition of Sanchez - the idea of getting Sandro is more appealing. Shaw has been good since he’s come back, but still doesn’t look real top class to me. He doesn’t have the quality of say Benjamin Mendy with delivery, or the penetration of Bellerin. He’s a good all-rounder, but wouldn’t be seen as special if he were 28. More ‘solid’ than anything else. Still, he’s young enough to take it up a level, it’s a question of how confident we are and if we are willing to wait.

    Central defence - we just need to decide on a pairing, but I think we have a good enough group. Lindelof should never have been signed though, and I’ll prefer Axel integrated, as unlikely as that is.
  31. Feb 2, 2018
    #71

    Havak Pokemon master

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    Have to assume as of right now, José's long-term plan is a new RB to take over from Valencia in the next couple of seasons, then persist with the development of Bailly, Lindelof, and Shaw. Hopefully all of them can stay fit and string games together in the future, but I really think that's the project. The only problem with this is that Bailly & Lindelof only seem to be any good as the RCB.
  32. Feb 2, 2018
    #72

    Escobar Poster originally known as Michel04

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    We need to build up a Valencia replacement now not when it is too late like we did in the past (Rio, Scholes, Giggs etc)
  33. Feb 2, 2018
    #73

    Infra-red Full Member

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    Both fairly weak/average in the air, too. Unless we replace Valencia with a big unit like Meunier, we could struggle in some set piece situations.
  34. Feb 2, 2018
    #74

    mitchmouse Full Member

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    I disagree. Lindeloff needs a run in the team and at CB not some half-arsed other position. Also it's time for Jose to decide: either pick Shaw or sell him
  35. Feb 2, 2018
    #75

    Cliche Guevara Full Member

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    I agree that’s time to just give Shaw the rest of the season. Young has done well for us, short-term, but he’s clearly not the future and isn’t giving us any more than Shaw should be able to.

    As for Ashley, if Jose wants to play him then pick him in the right-wing/forward position.
  36. Feb 2, 2018
    #76

    Rozay Not good at posting fixture lists

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    It’s not for no reason he hasn’t been given a run. He’s been largely terrible any time he’s played, at least in a back 4. There’s little basis to just give him a run of games.
  37. Feb 2, 2018
    #77

    Cliche Guevara Full Member

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    He was a bit shaky at the start but I genuinely felt he was starting to look a United player. He was becoming confident and getting stuck in.

    I think he could do well.
  38. Feb 2, 2018
    #78

    Rozay Not good at posting fixture lists

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    He was shaky even against Yeovil.

    I think he’s a good player, he just has no physical qualities at all, except being 6’2. He’s slow and weak, and terrible in the air.
  39. Feb 2, 2018
    #79

    sun_tzu The Art of Bore

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    RB - Valencia has been one of the best in the league for the past couple of seasons
    RB - Maybe TFM (though I still see him playing in the centre either in mid or def) so if not perhaps somebody young like henrichs who can challenge Valencia
    LB - Shaw I still think he has shown enough to be given a chance
    LB - Young he has looked ok for most of the season and he can play wing back - though I think he may also be about to go out of contract so possiby if we could get him sessegnon
    CB - Bailly hopefully he comes back from the injury fully
    CB - Jones has probably been our best defender this season
    CB - Smalling as he is a good option plus helps to fulfill the home grown criteria
    CB - Lindeloff is not the first defender to look a bit off the pace in his first year in the PL but we clearly rated him to buy him so I think he deserves another opportunity (plus potential RB cover)
    CB - Rojo as he can also cover LB and Jose seems to rate him

    Assuming we brought Henrichs and Sessegnon Id loan Sessegnon out along with tuanzebe and id let blind go and look at TFM as an option for defensive mid knowing he can also cover at the back

    1st team
    Valencia........Jones.......Bailly........Shaw

    back ups
    ...........Lindeloff....Smalling....Rojo.........
    Henrics.......................................Young

    Perhaps 50m spend (20-30m henrics similar for Sessengong)
  40. Feb 2, 2018
    #80

    wolvored Full Member

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    There's too many who seen to accept mediocrity as the norm. Jones rojo or smalling simply ain't good enough for an elite team. Baileys first season was brilliant and hopefully can repeat that when fit. Lindelof may be another slow starter that improves immensely like vidic. Dr Gea covers a lot of cracks and if he goes then we will be in trouble. He saves us a dozen to 20 certain goals a season with world class saves that 99% of goalies would miss. The trouble is it would cost a fortune to replace the lot in one go and with the midfield needing replacements it will be on the back burner