Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by NotBrendanRodgers honest, Jan 15, 2018.
Really? I was thinking nailed on for RM if he doest renew at Spurs.
Really? Interesting. He’s got a deal that runs until 2023 signed just last year but not once has he actually said he will be there, even next season. From a Spurs perspective, he’s left things way too open to interpretation.
If Spurs go trophyless this season too, there's a good chance that Poch would think he has taken the club as far as he possibly could and it's time to look for a new(bigger) challenge.
He has signed a long term contract and talked about wanting to be here long term many times. My stance is just that I don't think anything he has said or not said has any indication of him wanting or not wanting the United job. As fans we are starved of information so we try to find it where we can, but I don't think we can take much from the fact that he hasn't directly ruled anything out. There are arguments for and against, and for me it's more interesting to discuss those than what Poch hasn't said in public.
He said he wants to stay but when United comes calling he'll jump at the opportunity quicker than you say Poch.
What has Poch done to deserve the United job?
I am just not convinced by Poch as a United manager who will deliver silverware. But maybe if he gets the job, he'll prove me wrong.
This. He's achieved exactly what Olé has (playing beautiful attacking football without winning anything, yet).
I like the idea of Poch here because he's young but if anything he has underachieved given how his XI were better than everyone bar City the past 4 years. Did they even reach a final in that time? The league could be excusable because of depth but tell that to Leicester City.
Ole has done it for 5 games in England, Pochettino has been doing it for 5/6 seasons, bit of a difference.
Let's see about that shall we?
Re first sentence also said his ambition is to win big two but if we don’t change Way we do things then it’s going to hard or words to that effect. The inference and implication of what he’s saying is pretty clear. I wanted to stay but Daniel wouldn’t change so I’m going somewhere they will. He’s very clever. Not said anything, either way, that can’t be explained away.
But surely by leaving it open and some of his comments open to interpretation it doesn’t help, giving oxygen to the idea that he does want the job? I’m not a Spurs fan but if I was I’d want more.
However, wouldn’t fancy trying to get him away from Levy. Good luck with that Woodward.
Speaking reverentially about Sir Alex today. Mind you, he was asked.
It's the consistency that's impressive along with his ability to improve the majority of his players.
Even Rafa Benitez would struggle to say something negative about SAF if asked directly, to be fair.
2014/15: 5th (net spend: 4m)
2015/16: 3rd (net spend: -16m)
2016/17: 2nd (net spend: 30m)
2017/18: 3rd (net spend: 18m)
2018/19: *3rd (net spend: *0m)
Imagine Poch with the Utd budget
Exactly what Poch will be telling Levy, too. If Spurs don't give him the money after they move to the new stadium, Poch will be the next United manager.
It'll all be down to Levy.
Levy is the biggest obstacle not our sbility to convince Pochettino.
United fans on here have a hard-on for Poch, as if he's a new SAF. So many on here clearly have a cult like view of him, because they say over and over again that he's the only man for the job. When I learnt that Poch has taken a liking to a situation without a director of football, the doubts in my mind were doubled.
These people probably ignored the red flags that Wenger had in the late 2000s because they think net spend erases all the negative and keeps the positives (cognitive dissonance clearly). Spurs fans on the other hand, regularly acknowledge that he's not a coaching God because they watch every game. A good coach yes, but has a level to go up.
Woodward just has to be prepared to get bent over and reamed.
Levy will only agree to tear up the contract if we pay off the remaining however many years Poch has. And then sufficiently compensate Spurs for Pochettinos services.
With how much it would cost + Levy tax there surely must be other options we should be considering? Or maybe Ole stays on.
What Poch has achieved at Spurs is nothing short of miraculous given the limited resources he's had to work with. I agree, there are legitimate concerns regarding Poch's ability to manage a huge club like United or Real (the fact that Spurs seem to bottle it every time the going gets tough is a particular concern) but don't you think he's done enough in his managerial career to have earned a chance to prove himself?
The alternatives, of which there are a great many to be fair, carry no less of a risk in my opinion.
I'm not denying he's done a good job. But I don't think he's really shown enough yet.
I keep thinking of how they bottled the title race with Leicester, ultimately not even finishing 2nd.
With United's budget maybe he could win things, but nothing is guaranteed.
If Ole does well when he comes up against the big teams I don't see any point in rolling the dice again
For Spurs to have bottled the title race (be it against Leicester or Chelsea) they'd of actually had to be leading at some point. Being the closest challengers and not winning it isn't bottling it
He's a non-entity IF we can convince Poch to make the jump, if he wants out. We'll pay the remainder of his contract which would work out at £34m.
You can keep a player against his will but not a manager. It's up to us to sell Poch this job.
This. He's still unproven as Ole for this job for me. Stabilizing a club like Tottenham with little to no ambitions of winning trophies, when the big club like United, Arsenal and Liverpool are struggling is one thing, but making United great again is a task that even the master of winning trophies at all cost recently found that it was not easy, is another thing.
He's proving that he can't win against better managers despite having one of the best team in the league for 4 consecutive seasons now. An "has been" Mourinho comfortably finished in front him last season with a struggling United and Klopp and Pep have left him behind. It's good having Spurs playing CL football, but don't think he'd have been able to achieve that if United, Arsenal and Chelsea didn't struggle during the same period of time.
Seriously I hope Ole does well and gets the job because 1st he's our own legend, then I don't want to see another expensive manager to come here and break his teeth again and hearing excuses one after one.
I don't get this buying out his contract logic. Surely Spurs can buy out the contract by sacking him? Poch can only resign and then not work for five years.
Yet every season for four years people largely expect Spurs to drop off because the big clubs keep investing. And they don't. United finished 4 points clear - that's not comfortable and bare in mind they moved from WHL so had a unique challenge. WHL was a fortress in the last season so the move really came at the wrong time.
Furthermore what actually is his best team? It used to be with Rose and Walker as full backs two years ago. Now it is Davies and Trippier. It used to be a fit and reliable Dembele and Wanyama. 4 key components of that team two years ago are not a part of the team now. One got sold, three are crocks. They replaced them from within and not suffered badly in comparison so that's a credit to his management.
That's the thing, United finishing out of top 4 has nothing to with Tottenham, but due to our own problems and mistakes; same with Chelsea and Arsenal, Tottenham just capitalized on those mistakes. Look at their points total the lats 10 seasons : 51, 70, 62, 69, 72, 69, 64, 70, 86, 77; apart from the 2016/17 seasons where they got 86 pts, they practically got the same kind of points each seasons, other big teams under performed and Tottenham just capitalized on their mistakes. We finished comfortably in front of them because the entire season we were in front and at no time during last season tottenham threatened to overtake us.
Not long ago some people told me how Tottenham have better team than United, and when you look closely to their team, every key player have been there for no less than 4 seasons.
I meant ONLY Spurs can buy out his contract.
In what industry does the logic of giving an employer the employee's salary back (which hasn't even been paid yet!) constitute a buy out clause?
Mate come on, Pochettino came in and built a squad capable of making CL football multiple seasons in a row on a shoestring budget, whilst playing very good football.
Ole has come in mid-season and played good football against Cardiff, Huddersfield, Bournemouth, Newcastle and Reading. In what universe is that exactly the same achievement? It's 5 games! Ole has been handed a far better squad than Pochettino was, the idea that their achievements as a manager are remotely comparable is totally ridiculous. Ole got Cardiff relegated and then was poor with them in the championship too, he's come in and had 5 good games in English football under comfortable circumstances.
I was talking about achieving trophies. Both have won zero.
A manager is important as a player so if for me he costs £50/£60m I’d happily sacrifice a player to get him.
Sure, but you don't think there's a little more to managing a football club than your raw trophy count? They might have both won zero trophies but Pochettino has done a remarkable job with us and that should be recognised. I very much doubt Ole could have done the same.
The lack of trophies is a definite mark against Pochettino, but you can't just ignore the great work he's done in building up a squad consistently able to make the top four. That isn't an easy task that any old manager could have come in and achieved.
You are making it out it is lucky for them. They can't control what happens at other clubs where they get significantly outspent. They find other ways to compete and have done it well. The fact is they've made it into the CL places in spite of being the lowest spenders of the top six - you only need to see the past threads here on how people start out the new season skeptical of them keeping it up.
For a club like United, everything is measured in trophies and rightly so.
Poch built and fantastic team playing fantastic ball. However, he has underachieved in my opinion by nothing winning anything with his club. He's comfortably had the second best squad on paper for the best part of the last 4 years. Yet he has failed to reach a final.
United under terrible management and declining stars have made 3 finals within that time.
Spurs fan (and Poch fans in general) always say they can't compete because they haven't spent enough money. But then turn around and say their players are among the best in the league.
The real issue is that, for the last 4 seasons, Poch has had the top 2 (or 3) squad in the league and failed to win anything. Even if he spends 400 million, he's only going to get the 2nd best squad in the league because there's no way anyone competes with City on money. The benefits to the squad would be marginal at best.
On top of that, if he comes to United, how likely is he to get a squad better than what he has now at Spurs? He would spend 400 million to get a squad with a similar quality to what he has now. Along with higher expectations and pressure of delivering trophies, his job would be harder than what it is now.
People are skeptical of them because people predict a season where United, Arsenal, Chelsea are back at their best, only to be deceived. You can call it luck but what I meant is that Pochettinho is doing the job Tottenham expect him to do; he got the same points that, previous to 2014 they wouldn't get top 4 with; it just happened that he stabilized them at the same level but other teams are the one not meeting expectations. I backed my theory by quoting last season when United where back at their standards, we comfortably finished in front of them.
Yes he didn't spend anywhere near the other top 6 managers but isn't it unanimously accepted that he has one of the best squad in the league? So expectations should be high, isn't it? Leicester won the PL with less spending than the rest of league, SAF too did it as did Simeone with Athletic, Klopp with Dortmund and Jardim with Monaco; that's what genius do, punch above their level. When a genius of a manager is in charge of a talented team, he's expected to deliver trophies.
And if he's proving he can't beat other managers when he spends less then them, why bring him here when we can never beat City's spending? Even the like of Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal can match our spending, so are we going to break the bank for him only to fight for top4?
I'm really tired of this constant excuse that all clubs are below par or in transition. As soon as United, City. Arsenal or Chelsea under-perform a season or even several season it's always the same argument that it's a one-off season or in transition and that it will soon be back to normal. Things may change back to how it was a few years ago, but this is far from inevitable. Right now Spurs are getting into the top 4 because they are getting the points needed. Last 3 seasons Spurs have got 77, 86 and 70 points. 4th place before 2014 usually had around 70 points, and the last 3 seasons the bar has actually been raised, not lowered. Just because some teams who were there before isn't managing to get the total points needed doesn't make it a weaker league. I don't know why it's easier for you to believe that a number of other teams and managers have been constantly under-performing instead of acknowledging that Pochettino and Spurs have managed to break into the top 4 on merit.
I'm also not sure that it is unanimously accepted that he has one of the best squads in the league. Spurs got some great players, but so do other teams - and as was mentioned earlier every season most people predict Spurs to fall out of the top 4. This season Pochettino is comfortably third with Davies and Trippier as full backs and Winks and Sissoko in midfield. On top of this he has had to deal with many injuries to key players and had to trust academy products or young inexperienced players.
Separate names with a comma.