Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Carl, Aug 28, 2010.
The rhetoric made it a statement.
Alonso is better than Carrick and has always been.
Not nominated once, as far as I can see.
Agree with this.
Dunno whether you're guilty of overrating Carrick or underrating those 2.
Yeah most definitely. In the last 5 years he's been a mile ahead, but I'm sure people will disagree because he's not won what Carrick has.
No, it didn't. But you clearly don't want to answer me for obvious reasons so we can leave it here, if you like.
Prior to his fantastic last season for Liverpool, Alonso was distinctly crap and had been for a couple of years. Anyone who'd said he was better than Carrick then would have looked mildly mentally disturbed.
Other than that I've no interest in this current nonsensical debate, as it invariably devolves into idiots claiming that David Silva is a better CM than Michael Carrick, which is about as meaningless a comparison as you're likely to see. In the role he plays, Carrick is one of the best in the world. Only Busquets is definitely better than him. and that's really not a very controversial statement. Tbh, it would help these kinds of debates if someone would come up with a big list of comparable players, but I can't be arsed.
edit: Oh and it should go without saying that people mentioning Gareth Barry can feck right off, there's a reason that clodhopper has only played four times in the champions league despite being 31.
Is he though?
Erm ok then, the last 4 years.
Yes, though I take your opinions with a pinch of salt seeing as your red tinted specs are bigger than anyone else on this board.
Ah. I misunderstood you.
I thought by "the other players" you meant the other holding midfielders in the league.
Mind you, I would disagree that all the players you just mentioned are on a level. Lucas and Sandros have great engines and bags of potential but nothing like the vision and ability to pick a pass that Carrick and Song have. As for Parker, i just hate watching him play. He's such a negative player. An older, slower, English Mascherano. Effective though.
Who've I forgotten? Oh yeah, Barry. Does most things the others do but not quite as well. Well-rounded, consistent and dull.
Carrick plays a whole different role to Silva, in his role I think only Alonso and Busquets are better than him.
Yeah, I'd go with that.
Might be random johnny foreigners who are up there but i never watch continental football other than CL games.
Sneijder and Silva aren't central midfielders, the other 3 I probably agree are better than Carrick in that position.
The cut off is a bit arbitrary, but if you want to say Carrick is in the 2nd tier of CMs with Parker, Alonso and Barry beneath 8-10 other guys that's reasonable enough. But you could also put him at the end of the best group. He does have some impressive achievements to his name.
Alonso is but not by much, I don't think busquets is. I think you could quite easily swap carrick in and not notice a difference except that there was one less cnut on the pitch.
Disagree, Busquets is fecking world class. I would love to have him here.
I'm not expert on Liverpool but I disagree from what I've seen. It's no wonder they fell apart after he left, I think he was quite good even before that last season there, where he definitely got even better. Players like Alonso and Carrick are highly underrated, imho, because it's so much harder to appreciate a midfielder who dictates play and tempo than a speedster or a power player.
He is quality but I don't think he's any better. That said he is a lot younger so could easily become better. Don't think you could say there's much between them at the moment.
He is right buddy, Alonso was definitely underwhelming for at least a season which was partially the reason why Rafa tried to flog him off and tried to sign Barry. He was brilliant in the season in which they came second.
Have you ever seen him play? He's a mile better than Carrick and everyone else in that role. Jesus.
Busquets is quite comfortably the best at the position. Think him being a cnut is clouding judgements here. Alonso 2nd. They are a level above the rest which is where carrick comes in.
Dumbest excuse ever. Carrick's effectiveness has never ever relied on the type of partner he has.
It's genuinely baffling to see people saying Carrick is as good/better than him, this forum has reached a new level of knee-jerking ridiculousness.
The problem is there aren't many other midfielders out there that play Carrick's role and when they do they nearly always play in a midfield 3 rather than 2. I find it hard to compare Busquets and Carrick as one plays in a significantly better midfield with extra help from his midfield partners and the defence, in all I don't there's a huge difference.
Our system has it's own requirements and for me Carrick fits what we need in midfield perfectly.
Must be doing something amazing i'm missing then. I don't see him being better, he's definitely playing in a better team, but as for ability and what he brings I don't see it. also I'd take alonso over him in the sitting role.
Not this shite again. Just because a player doesn't naturally operate in a 4-4-2 doesn't mean he isn't a central midfielder. It's like saying Rooney isn't a striker because he plays deeper than others.
Better touch, better pass, better tackler, better interceptor, better control, never ever makes mistakes. Just because he doesn't play the creative balls like Xavi/Iniesta doesn't mean he lacks skills. He's far superior. The best in the world at what he does, Alonso included.
Exactly when you're comparing between formations it's always hard. I don't think carrick would look any worse than busquets or any less capable playing in the system and team that busquets does. I've not see lots of busquets going forward but I'm sure if he was given a similar role to carrick he would do as well too. But I don't think he would do it better.
I said this in my first response to pogue bumping the thread.
The bashing and the praise by most fans, not just on this forum, is always quite ridiculous.
He's not better than busquets now when he's having a great spell and he was never not good enough for us when he was having a bad patch.
Naah, not really. the help carrick gets in our midfield isnt in any way less than what busquets gets at barca. Its not just about us playing a middle 2 and them a middle 3, look at how both teams set up. We defend as a unit, even the wingers tucking in to help out.
Its just that busquets is quite simply a younger and better version of carrick. no shame in that though as he's the best in the world at the position. Carrick would come in the 2nd tier quite some way behind busquets and a bit behind alonso. None other comes to mind as being better than him.
He'd both protect our defense better and start up quick attacks better than carrick imo. see him as the more intelligent player and also the better dribbler, interceptor and has the better touch too. Just the better player for me.
I'd take Busquets ahead of Carrick in a heartbeat (if he wasn't such a cnut)
I just don't agree. Touch I'll give you he's excellent technically. I don't see him as a better interceptor but then we've rarely seen carrick in that role. All I can say is playing in a two carrick makes fantastic interceptions and if he was playing in that same system as busquets I think he could do it superbly. Passing I don't see it at all. Attacking wise i'd give it to carrick purely cause I can't recall that much of busquets going forward. He is though a lot more consistent.
That's not kneejerk that's what the same posters were saying before Carrick's great form this year. It's just a difference of opinion.
It's more like saying Rooney's a midfielder, surely? Silva plays in the same position and has always played ahead of the midfield just like Rooney is now.
Carrick never did enough to ever deserved being picked ahead of Barry during Capello's reign. Even when handed the chance.
That was also all down to Carrick's form at the time.
Yes. He's quality. And consistent.
They key fabric above all else, consistency.
Also what? Never see Carrick in that role? You must not even watch him play.
You're so wrong though, you really are. Watch the final last year or any game against Real and you'll see the difference. 95% of football fans across the globe would say Busquets is miles better, as would any pundit out there. It's just a fecking facade to claim Carrick as being better than him, or even in any way as good as him.
People actually said Carrick was better than Busquets? I struggle to believe more than 2 or 3 people did. Do you think he's as good as him Bwned?
Same thing, different phrasing. Silva is a central midfielder who operates in an attacking role.
I don't think he would. Remember carricks role for us demands him to be. Lot more adventurous then busquets role does. As I said its hard to compare as they play different systems but I don't think busquets is in any way a much better player. Like I said I think carrick could comfortably play in the same role busquets does at barca. Just cause he plays for barca doesn't make him in a different class. He is undoubtedly a great player but I don't think he's better and if he is better then I don't think it's enough that you could say he's different class. He does however have time on his side and will likely become a better player.
You can't judge a player based on the team he plays in. Judge him on the way he plays. It's purely hypothetical to suggest Carrick would be as good as Busquets at Barca or vice-versa.
Carricks role isn't purely as an interceptorl though that's the point. And he doesn't have another defensively savvy midfielder like xavi next to him. Makes a big difference.
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