Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Kaos, Apr 29, 2008.
Yeh I think so.
Contracts mean jack shit these days, sorry lad this isn't me being ott, i've never seen Anderson put in a consistent performance in a season. Nani was of a similar ilk, where by you could see the talent but the pieces weren't being put in the right order. Anderson i don't think will ever find that consistency. Given the stories that Ferguson said that he isn't afraid of changing up the squad in the summer I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he goes.
He is just frustrating to watch, a midfielder that gives the ball away time & time again. I lost count this evening seeing a ball passed to him & then he'd look up and try a long ball to either wing.
I doubt very strongly that he'll go on to emulate any of those players Ferguson mentioned, fact i'd put good money on it. Scholes was twice the player he was at Andersons age, and is still twice the player Anderson is nearly 10-15 years his senior.
Only if a player wants to go, you don't hand someone a pay rise if they already have 2 more years on their contract and you plan to sell them 6 months later anyway.
Oh, so the form and progression he showed from November until mid-January this season wasn't 6 weeks of superb game after superb game, and him showing exactly what he'll have to offer us when fully fit and developed as a player? How about his first season where he stablished himself as a first choice for large parts of a double winning campaign? Do yourself a favour and actually analyse the game before making such an innacurate and ignorant statement.
So you are writing him off at 22 and having, despite your inability to notice it, improved considerably and improved his consistency this very season prior to an unfortunate injury stopping him in his tracks? I'm glad you aren't our manager and Fergie is.
Yeah, frustrating to see a midfielder who can beat a man, who is powerful, and contrary to your opinion and tonights admittedly under-par game, sees a pass isn't it? Does it not also occur to you that he's spent his whole United career adapting to a role he had never played prior to joining? He's done a fine job of that and if people would be patient with him, it'll make him a better all-round player in the future.
Maybe he was, but that's not to say Anderson can't reach those levels. Not all players develop at the same rate of progression and Scholes himself was often behind the likes of Keane and Butt at 22-24.
Unbelievable how short-sighted and impatient people can be. Name me someone more trustworthy when it comes to identifying, nurturing, and having faith repaid in young talent than Fergie? There is nobody, so trust the man when he shows faith in a player and eventually gets him to fulfil his potential.
You don't have much business accumen if you believe that noise. Speculate to accumulate, look at how Ronaldo left having recently signed a contract prior to him leaving. It's an easy bargaining chip for both player & selling club.
Superb after superb game? Sorry but until 2011, United didnt really kick start into the 'superb' mode. He's had fully fit seasons, i just don't know how many more seasons we can afford midfielders like him. Lets face it, if he didnt have the hefty price tag which they paid for him, do you think he'd still be here? Doubtful.
Ohhhh quick, someone doesn't like a difference in opinion and cannot handle it! I'm saying United shouldn't bust their bollocks with this one. Nani & him both joined around the same time & the penny has dropped finally with Nani. How long can it be for the same to happen with Anderson?
The thing is i dont know what his role is, he's not the best attacker (his goal scoring record shows) and i tonight i thought he struggled holding onto the ball. Physical yes, mentally and technically there yet? No, a long way off. I hate to benchmark using Barca, but he's a country mile away from those boys & its Barca we need to be aiming to beat. The performance of his which sticks solidly in my mind was his Champions League Final appearance in Rome.
You could see the ability in Keane & Scholes were, form is temporary & class is permanent - it's proven with both Keane and Scholes.
Oh yes, thats the way. Difference in opinion and you take the 'OMG how dare you insult Fergie'. Nothing of the sort bucko, i just differ with Fergies opinion on Anderson. Nothing more.
A lot of you will eat your words out about him IF he can stay fit. Give him a break. He played ok. This is his second start since his long lay off.
Right ok, your right, we are going to sell him because......some random on redcafe thinks he's pap and that the contract he signed was to somehow secure a higher value despite already holding all the cards in that regard if we wanted to get rid.
So a top individual performance counts for nothing unless the team plays well? Dear oh dear, I've heard it all now. Besides, he was excellent against Balckburn, Arsenal, Valencia, and Sunderland. One we won 7-1, the other we played as well as we have all season in(Sunderland at home), one we beat our title rivals in, and the other he scored in and earned selection for said Arsenal game. I suggest you dig out those games and see for yourself how much influence he had on those games and how much maturity he's added to his game due to his own development and SAF's faith. We need more players like him, if we had them, we'd be a lot less susceptible to being pressed out of games and dominated in the middle. He's here because his potential is immense, not because he cost £17m and SAF is too weak to admit to an error, which is virtually what you are hinting at.
You're entitled to your opinion, but it's an unbelievably short-sighted one(in my humble opinion of course). It'll take as long as it takes, just because he and Nani came at the same time doesn't mean they should develop at the same speed. Nani has been blessed in the sense he's had less competition in his position(no coincedence that his rise began with Ronaldo's departure)and has never suffered a long-term injury like Ando has been unfortunate to suffer on a few occasions prior to and during his United career.
So you are measuring him up against two of the most gifted CM's of their generation and players who are lucky enough to have had movement ahead of them from quality like Messi, Eto'o, Villa, and Pedro during this golden period they are embarking on? God you are so lenient aren't you? In case you don't know, Xavi at age 26 wasn't even a regular for Barca, he was on the bench for the 2006 CL final which Barca won without him even getting on. Iniesta was 22 at that time and was also not in the Barca team. See how premature you are being in writing Anderson off and how folly it is to compare him with those two gems? As for 2009 CL final sticking in your mind...name me someone who could have lived with their domination that night with the rest of his team having an equally or worse game?
Fair enough pal, but I know who's judgment I'm going to trust on this one.
He has good games and really bad games. You rarely know which you're going to get from him.
He still has a lot of promise and a good chance of being a starter for us for years to come. I believe bringing in the right kind of partner for him could be what really sees him come good in the end.
Agree totally. That and defining his role a lot better will see him realise his full potential.
To be fair there is absolutely no chance of the lad even coming close to emulating either player. No chance.
Well see that I disagree with to an extent. I think right now we'll only see him shine if he is free to be the player he is at the moment, neither strictly attacking nor defensive. Just a box to box player good at running with the ball who can pick a pass now and again and puts in some tackles. I dont think he has the polish on his attacking qualities to be designated attacker of a midfield 2 or 3 and I dont think he has the positional awareness to be the designated holding/defending player of a 2 or 3.
Instead I'd say put a playmaker next to him who like Anderson, likes and enjoys putting his foot in for some tackles. Someone who we can rely on to move the ball about sensibly and have a proper first class influence on the game that Carrick rarely does. Allow Anderson to be the one who gets forward and linkup with the attackers, as well as putting his foot in like he will. And I think if his partner is doing the job very well and dominating through his passing like we still rely on Scholes or Giggs to do for us, then we should be able to see Anderson flying and on form. But I think he's one who needs that freedom else we lose some of the qualities that Anderson does have to offer and that'll only make him look worse.
To me he just doesn't look like a CM, irrespective of his obvious talent.
Just the fact that he keep having good games should be enough to be patient with him. How old is he now? 22, 23? Even if he dont turn out to be the next Zidane etc, he has since joining contributed to 2 PL's and a CL. And he's from Brazil, what more do you want??
Manchester United are not maximising Anderson?s attacking strengths - Brazil legend Carlos Alberto - Goal.com
Wow! They compared him to Ronaldinho back home.
Carlos Alberto obviously doesn't watch enough English football. No one's given the freedom to just attack here.
I'm really confused over Anderson. He's abit of an enigma. One on hand, you know he has so much talent. But on the other hand, he doesn't seem to want to bring it out. It's as if he prefers to play these safer 3 yard passes than actually take risks and show his attacking instincts. He doesn't even play like a proper Brazilian.
Anderson is a player that I really want to make it at United, but as time goes on the more unsure I become that he actually will. When he arrived from Porto he was hailed as an exciting attacking midfielder, for Porto he played as an attacking midfielder and looked a really exciting player.
Since he has come to United though he has often appeared to be lost in midfield, he doesn't seem to have any defined role and I believe this is hampering him. I still belive that he has massive potential but Fergie needs to find him a defined role within the team, a role that he will fill in the majority of games that he plays. He was touted as a possible Scholes replacement, but his game is absolutely nothing like Scholes.
I agree with some of the above that maybe Fergie needs to find a suitable midfield partner for him. Personally I don't know if he is a box-to-box midfielder, an attacking midfielder, a defensive midfielder.
Well that's the big problem really isn't it? Nobody really does, and anyone who says they do (Chief ) is kidding themselves. He showed so much promise in his first season here, but even then we were thinking "what will he become", and 4 years later we still don't have a clue. That just shows his lack of progression here so far,. I do think he has improved in spurts, but comparing him to Nani's rise to prominence is a bit harsh, because very few expected him to become so good (ye of little faith), where as people have consistently expected Anderson to rise to greatness, which isn't happening yet.
I've been critical of Anderson in recent times, though some of what's been said here about offloading him in the Summer is a bit ridiculous, he's still 23 for fuck sake. I do think next season will be a big one for him, we're very likely to buy this Summer, and I don't think Scholes will renew, and Hargreaves has been given up on, which means he'll have far more competition for places than he has had for the last 2 seasons, and it's a worry. He clearly can become brilliant, but how and when, and in what position? Who knows..
He also still just looks unfit as fuck, I know people will slate me for saying it, "he's just coming back from injury" etc, but that's bollocks. Look at Valencia and Rooney, they had long lay offs but were pretty much playing 90 minute games as soon as they got back, he never does, I can only remember one game this season where he has, maybe 2, correct me if I'm wrong here.
Seriously, I'd love to know his stats of games completed versus games subbed off since he got here, or at least in the last 2 seasons.
I know it's not uniformly the case but hasn't he often excelled in a 3 man midfield? We're trying to force him to be in a two-man midfield, and whilst he's had some outstanding games there, I'm not convinced if he can thrive there on a consistent basis. There's something in the home/away disparity too. That would suggest he's a confidence player, a bit like Carrick, though Carrick still often does the business away from home.
He's played much better this season in a two man midfield than a three man where his performances have tended to be poorer. Can only really recall Arsenal and Valencia when he played decently in a three man midfield and Valencia was not a stellar performance, he was alright. Some of his performances at home in a two man midfield paired with Carrick were very good.
Anderson's got a decent track record in a three man midfield paired with Carrick and Fletcher but I'd be going with Rooney and Hernandez over this if given the choice. I don't think we can say he has excelled in any position in the last few years given his talent but he has put in some very good performances intermittently.
Same old story with Anderson this season though. Looked like he was starting to fulfil his promise, has had a spate of injuries, struggled to last the pace of games(which is always an issue) and no one still knows his best position as a midfielder.
He's the best prospect we have in the middle of the park so I'd still be hoping Fergie perserves with him, but we are still no closer to him fulfilling his potential.
He last finished 90 minutes in January against Birmingham. Then West Brom earlier in the month. He had a run of two full games and two 80+ mins games between November and December when it looked like he was finally adjusting his fitness to a suitable level.
How could you possibly justify giving a player who hasn't exactly shone in an attacking sense for us 'freedom to just attack'?
He's just back from injury but in general he needs to improve. Even the basics of midfield play seem to cause him problems a lot of the time.
Yeah that was the period, but every time his fitness seems to be getting better, he gets injured again. I always just get the feeling he's not putting the work in, of course that's pure speculation and could be nonsense.
I think I actually agree here, he's never looked consistantly good in a two-man midfield as a CM, bar the odd game or run of games. But where do you play him?
I think I perhaps would play him in the position Rooney has played lately. Withdrawn striker, or perhaps slightly deeper. The problem with that is he doesn't offer enough goal threat, although he could get stuck in and help out defensively a lot. But then, wouldn't you rather Rooney played there with Hernandez or Berbatov up top?
What do you think, Pete, where would you play him?
I don't see any dilemma in where to play him. Just play him in central midfield. When he hit a good run of form alongside Carrick earlier this season nobody was agonising over his best position. This 'problem' only gets brough up when he goes through one of his frequent dips in form.
On his day he's a quality all-round central midfielder. Strong in the tackle, mobile, direct and with a great range of passing. The issue here is inconsistent performances and ongoing concerns over his application and fitness. All this stuff about not knowing his best position is a red herring.
Reminds me of the Nani right/left dilemma. People want to "fix" an under-performing player by moving him round the pitch. Then when the player starts performing to his potential the position he plays in suddenly stops being an issue.
He's got to play ahead of the CM. His best game for ManU by streets was away to Chelsea last season in the hole - he sat on Mikel and his bursts took him into danger zones rather than being becalmed 30 yards from goal.
His best games for United have all been this season, alongside Carrick in a midfield two.
The most disappointing thing about last nights performance was he was partnered with Carrick, a partnership that has brought out his best performances this season, but on this occasion he just couldn't get into the game on either side of the ball.
He's been largely crap this season (as has Carrick).
and yet they'll still probably win PL medals. Happy days!
I actually think his inconsistency comes from the fact he is not really suited to playing in CM as part of a two-man midfield, Pogue.
His day more often than not is at OT against a team parking the bus, where his positional play isn't required to be top notch and where we're always going to have the initiative, giving him the chance to influence the match on the ball. In games where he isn't so easily gaining chances to do things on the ball, he suffers due to the duties that are required from a traditional CM doesn't really seem natural to him. I'm talking about things like making yourself available for the pass, spreading the play, picking your moments to drive forward and knowing when to keep possession of the ball. He often disappears from the game, like yesterday, in those scenarios.
Away, he's only really looked good, apart from that game at Villa Park in his first season, when deployed as an attacking midfielder who drives forward to support the striker, or alongside Hargreaves who basically is exclusively a holding midfielder. See Chelsea away a couple of times, Arsenal away in the CL semi in 08/09 etc. As an attacking midfielder with more freedom, he doesn't need to pick his moments, and him losing the ball due to trying a difficult pass isn't really as critical. Also, he's closer to the areas where he can really cause damage and can get away with positional indiscipline a bit more, leaving him free to get stuck in where he wants it without worrying about taking up the right positions defensively etc.
Obviously form, confidence and fitness are other issues for him, but I tend to agree that playing him consistantly as an AM would get the best out of him. I'm not saying he won't do well enough as a CM played consistantly, but I don't think that's where he would thrive the most.
You didn't even watch all the games I'm talking about. Unless you regularly seek out streams to watch United matches that aren't televised?
If you insist on talking shit about United players/fixtures can't you at least stick to games you've watched?
That's a bit unfair IMO. He had some great games the only time he's really played consistantly. Injuries and fitness issues has deprived him of his chance to earn a regular place I feel. But I do agree that he's looked best when played as an AM in front of a midfield two.
As for Carrick, he's looked out of sorts for large periods, but he's had two run of games in which he's looked back to his self. The run before christmas alongside Anderson, and the last few weeks(perhaps barring the cup Semi.)
I know you've had a baby but your brain doesn't have to go to custard.
Sunderland and Blackburn at home? Valencia at home?
All games where we naturally is given the initiative and Anderson can worry about damaging teams on the ball with his bursting runs and through balls. I think my point still stands, if you look at my lengthy post a couple of posts above. Don't you? You see my point?
Better than responding to your crap wind-up attempt.
Or do you still think you're going to win the league?
Yeah, those games. Also Birmingham at home iirc?
I can't think of him ever playing that well as the most advanced player in a midfield three. Arguably against Arsenal in the FA Cup but they were in full-on fanny mode at the time, so didn't provide much of a challenge.
Yeah, probably that Birmingham-game as well. But away from home, or in games against reasonable opposition who pressurizes us in midfield, his best performance as Pete said was probably Chelsea away in 08/09. He would have had a famous goal that day had Rooney played him in for the tap in after a bursting run and clever pass, if I remember correctly. In the 08/09-campagin he had a great few games when played consistantly in the hole as well. Arsenal away provide more of a challenge than Birmingham, Sunderland at home ever do, fanny-mode or not.
Against Valencia, he basically played a free role in CM because of their lack of pressure. He burst forward time and again, which he will be able to do consistantly when deployed with more freedom.
The thing is, when we need him to grab a hold of the game he doesn't do it in a CM. He doesn't know how to, and that's why he'll never be a top CM, but could be an excellent AM IMO.
If he wasn't so injury prone he would probably be one of our best players. Every season he has an excellent un of about 5-6 excellent games, then picks up an injury and takes a few games to get back to his best. Big shame but that is a common stumbling block for youngsters.
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