Discussion in 'Reserve/Youth Forum' started by khoazany, Apr 25, 2014.
should have given him the secret sauce Barca gave Messi
Explain how their size factors into anything. What would Gomes gain from being as tall as Scholes for example and how does that tip the scale for him to succeed? It doesn't. It's all about playstyle. For some, size matters. For others, size does not help them in any substantial manner.
That's why I bring up watching their footage. Go watch their touch compilations. How does them being 1 to 3 inches taller than Gomes benefit them? I can explain why it matters if Gomes were a player that wanted to dribble past players like Chong. If that were his playstyle, size matters because he would be confronted with shoulder to shoulders and the defender could easily outmuscle him to shield the ball.
The size factor applies very much in football, lets not prettend that size doesn't matter, clearly being strong, tall and fast gives you an extra advantage in every position.
I agree that Gomes playing style does not rely on his physicallity, since he can't offer anything in that department; but like I said in the previous post in order to compensate for the lack of physicality he must be really really good at other things, just like the other short players mentioned. If he is or isn't good enough only time will tell but I think he will either be a top top midfielder or won't make it, you have to be that good to play at that level with those physical attributes.
They do this in a lot of countries. Very often they say that its to avoid that the person enda up really, really short, but I would guess it is more normal for talented, young atlethes. Did they not do it with Messi?
It is almost surpring that Man Utd did not give hormons to Gomes.
Isn't he due a grow spurt? Only worry is if he gets one it might effect his knees like it did Welbeck.
I agree size matters. I disagree it can be applied universally. I don't agree that it's necessary for a midfielder who plays like Modric, Verratti, Scholes, etc...
Whether he makes it or not will have nothing to do with his size and everything to do with what that role entails. Close control, finding space, ball manipulation, 1 touch passing, general passing, etc... Framing it as something that they must compensate for is just strange to me because it's the least important attribute for that role. That's why I said it's irrelevant in regards to Gomes.
Now as an attacker, yes I agree that size matters in regards to Gomes.
Not in the u23s squad, nor are Chong, Garner, and Greenwood who may still be injured. In the squad for CP perhaps.
That makes sense. Hopefully Greenwood is ready too.
Size matters but it's not insurmountable for any player in any position, especially in midfield. Being shorter can also be a benefit with dribbling and close control. And being too big can hinder a player - Lukaku. The only question for Gomes is whether he is good enough in the other parts of his game to make up for his lack of physique.
United under 23 are supposed to be playing Rading tonight. Is there any news on the team? This might give an indication if any of the youngsters are in line for a call up on Wednesday
Gomes, Chong, and Garner are all not in the squad.
Small which is ok but if your stature is small too which his my issue.
Well the game has changed a lot in recent years but there is still a physical aspect and they are still athletes. There arent many players under 5'6, the smallest player I can think of is the Brazilian lad alanzinho and even he's bigger than angel. His dad's bigger than he is so hopefully he's a late developer and will have a growth spurt but he's 18 now so it's a little concerning.
I'm hoping that with all the different types of analyzes now available and ways possible to enhance physical development Angel will still add some bit more on himself. He is clearly talented enough but as you say, his size is a concern.
Didn't Scott have his growth spurt when he was about that age?
I think Verratti is 5'5"
According to Google Verratti is 5cm taller than Gomes.
Edit: Uhm, as you were.
2 inches is significant to us men!
to be honest, I doubt 1.60 is his height at the moment. I can see he is listed as 1.60 everywhere, but on this picture it certainly doesn't look he is 10cm shorter than Mata. He could be 1.65 at the moment.
He will still grow a bit anyway. If he is now 165cm or 170cm isnt really that important. What is more important is that he grows his legs and uses his upper body strength to protect the ball. Modric is super thin and barely has muscles in his upper body, but his thick legs and low center of gravity, coupled with his on the ball technique make him dominate. He knows how and when to turn to get away from players and his low center and thick legs make it hard to push him off the ball without fouling. Verratti the other night dominated the game while being the lightest and smallest player on the pitch. It is all about how he adapts and uses his advantages, being small isnt negative per se for such a type of player.
Mata's clearly quite a bit bigger than he is. Gomes's nose is at his shoulder level. And look at the difference in shoulder level. And Mata gets criticism for being too small and weak.
Its interesting that so many very, very talented players seem to hit a glass ceiling in terms of physical development. As you say there have been lots of players who've been rumoured to have been given 'hormone therapy' because of concerns over whether they'd be big enough. Brazilian Ronaldo was another one and he ended up being six feet tall. Perhaps there's a genetic relationship between lower body manual dexterity and growth since these kids get identified as special when they're still small enough for the 'low centre of gravity' argument to apply to pretty much any child.
I think in basketball they measure the 'growth plates' and their gaps to see the potential height of high school kids.
Verratti is 165cm and Gomes doesn’t look much shorter than that. Verratti isn’t stocky either and yet he’s strong as a bull on the ball and Gomes has great shielding ability on the ball too.
He’s got the ability to circumvent his lack of height.
It’s just about finding the right set up for him and whether he can be effective in the adult game.
What you are alluding to are mesenchymal cells that are a form of stem cells that can differentiate into various cell types, including osteoblasts which are the cells that synthesize the bones. You can check how much mesenchyme is at the end of the fingers for example to see if there's more growth but you can't know the potential height just by looking if there's some growing yet to be done.
Thing is, we'll never know unless he gets a legit chance.
That criticism comes because he's playing in an attacking position. And it's more so for his speed.
His game reminds me of Pablo Aimar
He's still very young. He'll get chances. Here or o loan. There's no rush
The problem is his size. Even though there are some of us who mention how his game doesn't put himself in many situations where size matters, it's a stigma that persists. So if you send him out on loan, why wouldn't those managers view size in that same manner? It's a big gamble in relation to Gomes.
At the same time, where does Ole see his future at? Is it in attack or midfield. If it's in attack, do you think he'll get chances when Chong, and Greenwood are around? In Ole's system, they fit more so than Gomes. And Chong has already made the bench more often than Gomes, and gotten more minutes than Gomes despite Gomes having a superior season at youth level. This despite Chong also being very skinny.
There's a lot of question marks regarding Gomes' playing time that we can't really get an insight to. We just have to wait and see how his development process goes at United.
If he's good he'll eventually make it. Whether that's here or by working his way up from lower levels.
He can play as a 10 or an 8. Forget about any other position for him under Ole
Don't you fret. Maxi Moralez is even shorter than Gomez at 158 cm and has had a very very respectable football career. The first time I saw him in person playing for NYFC I was shocked because of how short he looks in comparison. But then he went and scored two goals, one of the better players on the pitch. He's previously starred for Atalanta in Serie A and was a standout for the Argentina U20 in a team alongside Aguero, eventually getting one full senior cap. I'm sure there were a lot of doubts and hard moments but that's pretty fantastic. Hope to see our Gomez go one better and star for us.
For what it's worth, Insigne's easily the best player on the pitch whenever he plays for Napoli and he's only about 5'4.
Hope we're winning comfortably and he gets on today
Christ! Just looked him up on YouTube. He looks like a ballboy who's sneaked onto the pitch.
March 2nd the last time anyone posted in this thread, not so long ago he was the great hope from the academy and tbf the times he's appeared in the first team I've found him to look quite the talent. Why is he not being spoken of more now?
Funnily enough, he had a great game last night for the 23s.
I think he should be getting Mata's minutes. I don't see what Mata is currently doing that Angel couldn't do. He has more ability in one v one situations that's for sure.
I've long said he should be getting Mata's minutes. In fact we should withdraw our contract offer for Mata if we genuinely have belief in his talent.
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