Anthony Martial as Number 9

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Ahsan_6386, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. May 31, 2019

    He'sRaldo New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2019
    Messages:
    62
    None of our youngsters have been coached properly for years, so even if Martial has poor movement I personally wouldn't blame it on any kind of "attitude".

    I think he needs good coaching on how to get into goalscoring positions often, like most other young forwards.
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  2. May 31, 2019

    Raven Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,653
    Location:
    Ireland
    I don't think we're going to agree on this. There's more than one way to move effectively in football.
  3. May 31, 2019

    iHicksy Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Messages:
    842
    I always thought he was our most dangerous and deadly number 9. However, his attitude really stinks. But his lack of work rate would be less of a problem as a 9 which is perhaps why he looked good for us there.
  4. May 31, 2019

    diarm Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    9,099
    Location:
    Dublin
    He simply doesn't move until the ball comes to his feet. Ever.

    Sometimes this works for him in the box because sometimes standing still while everyone else is moving is the best move. The great strikers have that instinct but it'll play out every so often for an average striker too if he's always standing still.

    Unfortunately, we lack the creators to find a stationary target in the box (or on the wing which is why we so often see Martial grow frustrated, isolated and ineffective when he plays wide). We do have a midfielder capable and willing to find fast forwards running in behind defenders but Martial is never going to be that runner.

    Play him upfront for a season at United and he'll score 3 or 4 goals from balls that fall to his feet during corners and maybe 3 or 4 more absolutely mesmerising solo efforts but that's it.
  5. May 31, 2019

    tenpoless Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2014
    Messages:
    2,291
    Location:
    *Teleports behind you*
    True and this isn't what required to be a top striker that's capable of scoring a lot of goals. He needs to have that predatory instinct around the box. It doesn't surprise me if most managers prefer to play him wide... his characteristics are mostly that of a winger or wide forward. But not a CF and definitely not a lone CF.
  6. May 31, 2019

    OL29 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,778
    Location:
    Manchester
    Martial's movement is admittedly poor but I do think people overstate it on this site, I'd wager that he's scored more one-on-ones than anyone else in the squad over the last few years, he clearly has some nous when it comes to getting in behind the defence.
  7. May 31, 2019

    Camilo Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Messages:
    1,764
    Why on earth would anyone expect anything from some Swansea player?! What nonsense.
  8. May 31, 2019

    Shark @NotShark

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    19,613
    Location:
    Ireland
    What a player he'd be if he had Sterlings energy and movement out wide. But as others are saying, it's down to coaching, we've been misusing our biggest talents for years and it looks like he's gong to be another on we let go on a ''what could have been'' note. Give him a few games up front again and lets see what happens, I don't remember him ever having a bad enough game up front to warrant shifting him out wide, out of position. Look at what Lukaku is dishing up. Can we use some common sense for once.
  9. May 31, 2019

    abdo99 Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,049
    Yes but here you'll get told he refuses to move and doesn't give a shit. There's different styles and different ways to play football. Berbatov was called lazy just because he didn't run around like blue arsed fly and get his shorts dirty- he did what he was good at and there was players that complimented his game and vice versa. Nobody ever said Aguero must make runs in behind or he's lazy. Why does he have to change his style just to make it look like he cares? As if all forwards play in the same way. like you have said he got in behind few times 1 on 1 like West Ham (1st match of 2017) or Watford match (4-2 win) showing clever movement I'd imagine he could focus on what he's very good at in due course .
  10. May 31, 2019

    TRUERED89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    England
    I'd prefer Martial at 9, rather than Rashy or JLingz playing false 9. He's easily our most clinical finisher when he actually gets opportunities, highest conversion rate in the league iirc.
  11. May 31, 2019

    TRUERED89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2019
    Messages:
    794
    Location:
    England
    I agree with everything mostly, he's got just as much speed as Sterling just doesn't have the movement or tenacity.
  12. May 31, 2019

    tenpoless Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2014
    Messages:
    2,291
    Location:
    *Teleports behind you*
    He doesn't need to change his style but a good manager must place his players in positions that's for the best of the team. Moving him from the left to center would mean losing a lot of threat from the left - Rashford can do a job there but Martial is better. It's probably the reason why Ole decided to play Rashford as CF and Martial on the left compared to Rashford on the left and Martial as CF.

    Also it might be just me but based on my observation He seems to favor to start his dribbles from the left. I'd rather him to be a wide forward. Dribbling through the middle is harder than from wide area and when He's starved of service, which will happen most of the time if He plays as a lone CF with our current setup - especially against top teams, He will need to drop deep to collect the ball or wait for the ball before He starts dribbling (it's his style) and We'll be toothless up front. Dribbling against two CBs sitting in front of you isn't easy, unless if you're Messi.

    Things might change if We sign other wide forwards / wingers but as it is, I think Ole has it right.
  13. May 31, 2019

    Steven-UK New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2019
    Messages:
    111
    Location:
    Manchester
    Sadly, he does not have anywhere near Sterling's ability as a footballer, hence lack of movement, and lack of other attributes. Sterling is world class, and unfortunately, we have been saying for the last 5 years that Martial 'has to potential to do this, and that', and never quite achieves it.

    His laziness is just unforgiveable at this level. How many more years do we put up with players who just do not perform, for whatever reason? I would personally let him go (which obviously won't happen).
  14. May 31, 2019

    He'sRaldo New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2019
    Messages:
    62
    Until we sort ourselves out, I don't think we should complain that players don't become world-class here. It's happened too many times to simply be the fault of the youngsters, especially those who regularly contribute goals and assists to our dire attack.
  15. May 31, 2019

    tob Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    836
    Martial is a center forward and should be played in that position. Why bother spending money on someone like Dembele from Lyon and continue playing Martial on the left flank? Buy a real left winger instead and move Martial central.
    He’s just been given a new contract so give him the opportunity to preform in the position we signed him for. He did well his first season as a striker and I bet you he’d be giving more to the team if he’d be playing in his favoured position.
    Sell Lukaku and give the Frenchman his no.9 back. If that doesn’t get him going and he’s still underperforming - then sell him.
  16. May 31, 2019

    Walters_19_MuFc Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,008
    Location:
    Birmingham
    I would. With the right players round him (wingers who will run in behind) then he can be a success there. He has really good hold up and link play. Could almost be like a false 9 for us, with Rashford/James and New Winger flanking him.

    It will really annoy me if Ole buys a new back up striker without trying Martial there first.
  17. Jun 1, 2019

    Foxbatt Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,464
    Martial as CF will be a different type to the lump up and hold the ball kind of player. He also can play with the ball played behind the defence too. I think we should play a diamond formation with two strikers up front.
  18. Jun 1, 2019

    sunama Baghdad Bob

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    13,861
    Well, the last season, the 2 coaches were Carrick and McKenna. Our attack was average, while are defence was terrible.
    Are you saying that these guys are poor performers?

    Before that, it was Rui Faria, who made us defensively sound, but like you said, didn't seem to care too much about attack.

    Before that it was LVG's team, who coached to the finest detail, which made our players scared to shoot at goal, but showed us what possession football was about.
  19. Jun 1, 2019

    NinjaZombie Punched the air when Liverpool beat City

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    7,202
    Location:
    Leather jacket popped like Cantona
    You can play him in whatever positions you want, but if he's still has the same lazy attitude and work rate, he won't be of much use over the course of a season.

    Talented player, but like most of our better players, has a bad mentality.
  20. Jun 1, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2018
    Messages:
    2,770
    The bad mentality that joao felix has - who also doesn't make runs behind the defence and tends to drop deep to get the ball to feet before initiating an attack with the players around him.
  21. Jun 1, 2019

    crossy1686 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    10,219
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    How many more excuses are we going to make up for him before we just admit he hasn't done enough to deserve to stay at the club?

    He's getting extra special treatment because he's one of those players that no one knows where his best position is, so it of course is not the one he's been currently playing in, because he's been shit there, it must be as a number 9 instead.

    Fact of the mater is, he doesn't do enough to justify starting, let alone getting to decide what formation we play to suit him best.
  22. Jun 1, 2019

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    5,238
    Location:
    Between a rock and the Nou Camp
    Every attacker who plays in the EPLwill get a chance every now and again. Does not mean they have acceptable movement. Please keep Kun name out of this. He is the last person you should be flagging.
    Martial is not a CF. Played most of his career wide, was terrible for us as a CF in debut season and scorers far more goals wide. Selling Lukaku, our only proven GS striker (has actually hit 30 odd goals at this level) and replacing him with overrated kids who have 1 in 4 as CF is sackable offense. Do I want Rom sold? Yes, but not to pass the reigns over to Tony.
  23. Jun 1, 2019

    tob Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    836
    When I see him, I see a lot more of a centre forward than a winger. In my view he is a forward who likes to drift out wide for more space.
    He’s not a typical winger that will run up and down that left flank. He never will be. His place on the field is as high up as possible.

    We’ve already seen Rashford being “passed the reigns” of that central forward position and we’ve got a great prospect in Greenwood. I would rather put my trust on those three players for the coming season than sign someone else. Instead use that money to get proper wingers and stop playing Rashford and Martial on the wings.
  24. Jun 1, 2019

    Stacks Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2015
    Messages:
    5,238
    Location:
    Between a rock and the Nou Camp
    Then please don't moan when we are 6th again and score the least of our rivals
  25. Jun 1, 2019

    UNITED ACADEMY Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,042
    I realised that we are moaning 2 things, one when we finished 5th or 6th with Zlatan & Lukaku were/are here. The other one is when players like Martial & Rashford don’t get the chance playing in their favourite position. We might should just get rid one of them by giving them one full season as a striker.

    If it’s not working then people can finally stop moaning & making this kind of thread.

    If works then we will finish in top 4 & we won’t see this kind of thread anymore. Hitting 2 birds with one stone. :lol::lol:
  26. Jun 2, 2019

    tob Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    836
    Why wouldn’t I moan?
    If we were to put trust in those players and they didn’t perform - then I’d be disappointed. Just as I think you would be disappointed if we spent a lot on a new striker and he didn’t perform. Or wouldn’t you?

    Would you keep Martial and continue playing him on the wing or would you try and sell him? Is he a starter on that left wing for you?
  27. Jun 2, 2019

    steve zizou It's bigger than that, honest!

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,185
    Location:
    Back 4
    But playing wide is different to playing as a winger. Messi and Salah play in same areas but their roles in that position are different.

    Martial's best traits are as a striker than as a winger.
  28. Jun 2, 2019

    Aloysius's Back 3 New Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2018
    Messages:
    2,770
    I've got no idea why people think he is a better winger than a forward.

    • Can he cross effectively - not really
    • Does he have the area in front of him to find free space from out wide - not really, this is something he loves doing in where he positions himself before the attack has started to go up against one or two defenders in an angle that suits him but mishapes the defence. When playing on the wing it's clear as day where martial is and where he wants to go next, making it feel like even I could defend against him because he is so obviously going to cut in.
    • He doesn't make runs behind the defence because be likes to be the first player to initiate an attack with the ball at his feet, usually attempting to make short one two passes before then making a run behind the defence that catches the defenders off guard.
    • Has the ability to play very deep as a striker, as a forward that brings the defenders out of space, able to hold up the ball better than Lukaku whilst having the ability to turn the defenders around or bring others in to play around him..

    I get it - we will get called martial FC & what not when all we want to see him is as the interlinking forward playing centrally of the midfield and forwards around him.
  29. Jun 2, 2019

    LonelyFire Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,302
    Location:
    Scotland
    He may be the one of the most unintelligent players I’ve seen when it comes to movement. He has a one track mind towards the ball and has zero idea on where to make a run either to pull defenders away or how to use his pace more effectively.

    All the ability you could ask for on the ball. It’s no surprise his best form was under LVG - he needs coached.
  30. Jun 2, 2019

    yamo123x Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,714
    Location:
    england
    I still cannot forgive him for all those lazy sub standard sulking performances he put in particularly towards the end of the season,that after we just given him a bumper new contract.

    I’ve always been a fan but he lost me last year with his lack of effort for the shirt. No space anywhere near our club for people with an attitude like this
  31. Jun 2, 2019

    Bestietom Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    2,783
    Location:
    Ireland
    I think Greenwood will make it as our CF with coaching from Ole. We need someone with the instinct to be in the right place at the right time to finish the tap ins also.
  32. Jun 2, 2019

    AlexanderClaude New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    Messages:
    26
    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Martial may not make constant runs off the ball however he was probably one of our better attackers finding his way into the box and finishing off a deflected shot or cross. He put himself in good position in front of goal when he had time he does have that poacher mentality and finishing ability in front of goal.
  33. Jun 2, 2019

    LonelyFire Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,302
    Location:
    Scotland
    Time will tell with Greenwood - it’s very early days to be putting our eggs in that basket. What will not help him, as has been the case with Rashford, is putting too much on him early.

    Said it a million times before but for all the faults in our squad, we’d be miles better off with a clinical striker. Rashford has a lot of potential but he’s not ready to be the No.1 striker at Utd.

    Anyway, on Martial, he doesn’t have a strikers instinct. Like I said, he needs to be coached and told where to move. His movement is fecking awful. I’m not just talking about the lack of effort at times but he takes up positions on the pitch that make it so hard for him to receive the ball. He has no idea how to move to isolate defenders. If we can coach that into him then he could be fantastic through the middle but I have my doubts.
  34. Jun 2, 2019

    djembatheking Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,413
    Hope to feck we are not trusting in Martial as he has been shite and just hasn`t got the mentality to fight for a struggling team . Would be made up if we sold him .
  35. Jun 2, 2019

    Bestietom Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    2,783
    Location:
    Ireland
    For a top striker that instinct of being in the right place at the right time comes natural. You can only be thought so much, but if you are a good striker it comes natural. Do you not think.
  36. Jun 2, 2019

    LonelyFire Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,302
    Location:
    Scotland
    No, I think it can be coached. Henry is a perfect example - had all the attributes to be a striker yet was played on the wing until Wenger got him.

    Martial has the attributes but is he smart enough to learn how to use them - that’s the question.
  37. Jun 2, 2019

    Bestietom Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    2,783
    Location:
    Ireland
    Henry already had the instinct he was a born goal scorer. Wenger was not the only one who could see it.
  38. Jun 2, 2019

    Kaglish10 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2019
    Messages:
    912
    Martial is fine where he is and I think that's his best position, which is the left wing. Another role of his is the SS. Despite the fact that he's got his flaws, we haven't helped him to maximize his potential so far.

    First, he needs better players upfront to linkup and interchange with. Rashford did that a lot with him when he was just promoted until he amassed so much ego and became so selfish on the ball. In fact, Rashford's linkup play and movement have become horrible recently. Martial actually looked good linking up with Greenwood against Cardiff because Greenwood's linkup play and movement were good.

    Secondly, Martial hasn't been helped by the fact that we have no threat on the opposing right wing hence he always gets more attention from the opposition who tends to double up on him and crowd him out. I actually feels Martial plays better with Mata on the opposing wing than the non threatening Lingard because Mata has his previous reputation going for him hence opposition's attention on Martial would be likely divided due to Mata on the other wing eventhough Mata actually does nothing but it's better than Lingard who's become nonentity whenever he's on the ball nowadays.

    I feel if we sort our midfield and our other attackers, Martial would come to life. I'm not worried about him but his wage is what I can't get my head around.
  39. Jun 2, 2019

    wolvored Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    4,327
    Lets see how Martial performs next season after the new fitness regime kicks in. Think this will be a pivotal season for him. If he doesnt buckle down and start producing more on the pitch, he will be moved on. If we do get James and another wide player/attacker, can see Ole moving James to the left, (where hes features most for Swansea), if Martial isnt working enough out there.
  40. Jun 2, 2019

    Mcking Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2017
    Messages:
    3,608
    Location:
    Nigeria
    He should continue playing from the left. We should look to find players for the other positions rather than messing about with Martial's.
  41. Jun 3, 2019

    Dante Bang Average but can post Blindfolded for 15 secs

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    15,170
    Location:
    My wit's end
    If we switch to a high-pressing style (as Ole seems to like talking about), I can't see how Martial will have a place at the club in the medium to long term.

    Martial is an old fashioned luxury forward in a footballing world where luxuries don't exist anymore.

    All the top top 4 play a high-pressing style, and between them they've taken every major trophy available to English clubs at home and in Europe. I'm pretty sure that's the template that the United coaching staff are hoping to emulate.

    But on the specific point of Martial, #9 during the early 2000s would have been his most natural position. In the latter half of that decade, a lot more teams started playing target men who brought goal scoring wingers into box. In that situation, wide forward (#7 or #11) would have been Martial's best position (which is what LvG did with him, being the managerial dinosaur that he was). Martial is a player that likes to wait for the ball to come to him, and doesn't like to worry about the ball when it's not already at his feet. Systems to accomodate him don't exist anymore at the top end of the game.

    In 2019? I'm not sure he has a seat at the elite table. If he'd been born 20 years earlier, he'd have been sat next to the best.