Are Dortmund building their next great side?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by wythyred, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Oct 11, 2018
    #1

    wythyred Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Messages:
    799
    Location:
    Manchester
    They are currently top of the bundesliga and are scoring goals for fun.

    They have a very young squad and have played a striking style of football thus far.

    How highly do you rate this team currently and what is their potential?
  2. Oct 11, 2018
    #2

    FootyGirl88

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2018
    Messages:
    3,458
    Hope so they're great to watch ❤
    Cc @Borussin
  3. Oct 11, 2018
    #3

    Andy_Cole Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    3,684
    Location:
    Manchester
    If they do then great. But annoyingly they’ll get picked apart by Bayern.
  4. Oct 11, 2018
    #4

    Skills Snitch

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2012
    Messages:
    25,425
    Are borussia dortmund building Bayern's next great team?
  5. Oct 11, 2018
    #5

    Oly Francis New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    Messages:
    36
    Supports:
    PSG
    Until Reus gets injured again... They make me think of Monaco 2 years ago, great energy but it's hard to know if they can compete against experienced european teams.
  6. Oct 11, 2018
    #6

    Borussin New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Supports:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Hard to say really, problem is, is that Dortmund will still be a selling club for the foreseeable future. So it is hard to keep squads together. the hope would be though, is that no longer will Bayern be the club to steal our stars. That these players will see the bigger picture beyond Munich. Many of our best players at the moment (apart from Reus) aren't German, so that can help!

    What is hugely promising now though, is that the club is getting the squad building right again. We went through a couple years there when it went badly astray. Buying players to appease a coach, and getting too many big transfers wrong.

    One of our best strengths from around 2007 - 2014 was squad building, and that came in no small part from having everyone on the same page, the head coach, sporting director, scouts, CEO- all pulling in the same direction, and it worked beautifully for the most part. When Jürgen Klopp left - the club changed direction a bit and our CEO Aki Watzke admitted that they felt then they couldn't do what they did with Kloppo - get a young coach from the 2nd division, cos the stature of the club had changed so dramatically for the better under him. And it has taken 3 years really for us to find our feet again since he left.

    So we will see how it goes. I do feel very confident actually that this isn't just a nice start this season - it is much more than that. We do have the basis of a very good team. One of the keys is actually in defence. It's been a while since we had a settled pairing back there. Last 2 seasons we must have gone through about 12 different pairings, no joke! So seeing Akanji and Diallo settle in, reminds me a bit of how Hummels and Subotic became a dominant pairing for us at very young ages. So that is huge.

    Put it this way, it's good for the Bundesliga - but also the improvment and strong starts to the season of teams like Hertha BSC and Borussia Mönchegladbach is also very important. But I do think that BVB have what it takes to really take it on this season.
  7. Oct 11, 2018
    #7

    SqueakyWeasel Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2013
    Messages:
    12,856
    Location:
    Taking the next corner instead of Jones!
    Came on here to write exactly this … I'll leave now ;)
  8. Oct 11, 2018
    #8

    izec Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages:
    15,784
    Location:
    Lucilinburhuc
    Yes, but it wont last long. Sancho, Pulisic, Paco, Akanji will be hot on the market in the future
  9. Oct 11, 2018
    #9

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    31,427
    Location:
    Me, and you. Yo momma, and yo cousin too.
    Supports:
    orderly disembarking on planes
    Or other top clubs in Europe (Dembele, Sahin, Kagawa, Sokratis come to mind for now).
  10. Oct 11, 2018
    #10

    Ekeke Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    38,955
    Location:
    Hope, We Lose
    Already have.
  11. Oct 11, 2018
    #11

    RooneyLegend Full Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    7,360
    Everyone will be paying attention waiting to pick what they can. That's the big negative of the money in football today.
  12. Oct 11, 2018
    #12

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    31,427
    Location:
    Me, and you. Yo momma, and yo cousin too.
    Supports:
    orderly disembarking on planes
    Only Bayern does it.
  13. Oct 11, 2018
    #13

    RooneyLegend Full Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    7,360
    Sahin-Madrid
    Kagawa-Us
    Auba-Arsenal
    Gundogan-Man City...
    and then the Bayern lot.
  14. Oct 11, 2018
    #14

    kaiser1 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2018
    Messages:
    40
    Supports:
    Bayern Munich
    Mikitaryan - Man Utd
    Dembele - Barcelona
    Gundogan - City

    Sancho and Pulisic are likely going to England. Paco back to Spain
  15. Oct 11, 2018
    #15

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    5,318
    It will get picked apart by the clubs with money. That's the problem. A team like Dortmund can't hold on to its best players.
  16. Oct 11, 2018
    #16

    Ekeke Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    38,955
    Location:
    Hope, We Lose
    They're like the anti-United right now. The most exciting attacking side around, goals galore
  17. Oct 11, 2018
    #17

    Borden Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,513
    Location:
    Are you watching closely?
    :(
  18. Oct 11, 2018
    #18

    Lyricist Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    Messages:
    2,656
    Location:
    the booth
    I think the praise may be a bit preemptive. But one thing that I do find crazy is that for years now they always seem to have players on their squad that seem like they’re destined to become world beaters in a few years time.

    - Sahin
    - Kagawa
    - Götze Lewandowski Hummels
    - Gündogan Reus
    - Mkhitaryan
    - Weigl Dembele
    - Pulisic
    - Sancho

    Lewandowski, Hummels, and Reus really made it in the long run.
    Sahin, Kagawa, Mkhitaryan, Götze(, and Weigl) failed I’d say.
    Jury is still out on the 3 youngest.

    Of the older ones all aside of Reus did move to huge clubs though.
  19. Oct 11, 2018
    #19

    Borussin New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Supports:
    Borussia Dortmund

    For some of them, it was partly that they left too early into their careers - Götze, Kagawa and Sahin especially, they had their heads turned, it happens! And then unfortunately, they moves just turned bad - partly due to injuries, or just due to the coach not really wanting them or utilising them in unfamiliar roles. And by the time you know it, they've sort of wasted a couple years of their careers. Hindsight is a great thing, but had they stayed, Sahin and Kagawa especially, would have benefitted enormously, they where still really good players. Götze still would have had his illness issues wherever he was. But also, the thing about those teams then, for all the talent - and yes, there was a lot of good players on these teams, it was also a case of the collective being greater than the sum of it's parts.

    As for now, the one I actually am very cool with losing is Pulisic. And if he doesnt sign a new deal, then BVB will cash in on him next summer.
  20. Oct 11, 2018
    #20

    Casanova85 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2018
    Messages:
    477
    Location:
    Northwestern Mediterranean
    Supports:
    FC Barcelona, Manchester Utd
    The club already has the potential to win this Liga.

    Dortmund is a big enough (and then some more) club to win the Liga when they have the right players. They are not bottlers.

    I predict they will win the 18-19 Liga.
  21. Oct 11, 2018
    #21

    Moby Dick who hates the homeless

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    32,570
    Location:
    Nicki Minaj's Secret Bedroom
    Cannot wait for us to go for Pulisic.
  22. Oct 11, 2018
    #22

    Ekeke Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    38,955
    Location:
    Hope, We Lose
    Hakimi, Zagadou and Larsen are some of their better performing players so far this season, 2 of them are 19 and the other is 20. Also 1 is on loan from Madrid but still.

    Then you have Akanji and Alcacer who are around their mid 20s (23 and 25) although once again, theres a loan.

    But all in all we're talking about a lot of talented young players who are playing good football this season. There are no guarantees they all keep it up all season, or if they improve the next season. But if they stay the course Dortmund might have another long list of talents that the top sides want
  23. Oct 11, 2018
    #23

    Casanova85 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2018
    Messages:
    477
    Location:
    Northwestern Mediterranean
    Supports:
    FC Barcelona, Manchester Utd
    Dortmund players going to Bayern should be illegal.
  24. Oct 12, 2018
    #24

    Borussin New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    57
    Supports:
    Borussia Dortmund
    absolutely, and I think this season we have to take advantage of a bit of a transition with Bayern Munich.

    And I am not saying they are rubbish or anything! But it is a team going through a little transition now with a new coach who is not at the level of their last few coaches. Not much top new talent come in this year. I reckon Bayern will go BIG next season - and yes, that may involve them yet again taking one or two of our best players, but also other clubs especially Leverkusen need to be watching their backs too.

    So now is the time for Dortmund to really go for it - we may not get a better chance for a while. Should be fun anyway!
  25. Oct 12, 2018
    #25

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    15,139
    Location:
    New York
    Before people cry tears for them losing their best players is not like all of their players came from the academy.
  26. Oct 12, 2018
    #26

    Ray_of_Hope New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2018
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    USA
    Supports:
    Liverpool
    The thing is BVB board, after messing up with their last two managerial appointments as well as firing Tuchel, has found again a very good manager in Lucien Favre.

    Favre, in my opinion, is one of the most underrated football manager in Europe. He develops youth, plays attacking football with an organized defense, and gets result.

    I was very surprised when BVB went for Peter Bosz instead of him. It was a blunder of epic proportions.

    I am genuinely happy for Dortmund. Their rise along with Hertha is good for Bundesliga and, in general, German football.

    I hope Dortmund wins the Liga this year. All the best.
  27. Oct 12, 2018
    #27

    Balu Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,010
    Location:
    Munich
    Supports:
    Bayern Munich
    Way too early to start hyping them. Last season they had 19 points and 21:2 goals after 7 games and were 5 points ahead of Bayern. This season they have 17 points and 23:8 goals after 7 games and are only 4 points ahead of Bayern.

    And Dortmund won quite a few games this season where they didn't play well at all. I rate Favre as a coach and don't expect them to go on a run as bad as last season under Bosz. But still, impossible to predict how stable/consistent they already are over a full season.
  28. Oct 12, 2018
    #28

    Blackwidow Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2011
    Messages:
    5,889
    Everything right now is functioning for them and they made 22 goals out of 13 expected goals. It will not run like this forever.
  29. Oct 12, 2018
    #29

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    67,106
    Location:
    india
    Little mention of their manager? Enlighten us, then. Who is he and why is he doing such a great job?
  30. Oct 12, 2018
    #30

    Rifer Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    2,645
    Location:
    Fergie Times
    Or their DOF.

    Seems like their DOF (if they're using one) is doing a consistent great job in finding this wonderful talents seasons after seasons.

    :devil: Let's poach him/her.

    EDIT: Credit should be given to their scouts too I guess.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  31. Oct 12, 2018
    #31

    hasanejaz88 Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,166
    Supports:
    Germany
    I think people are slightly overrating this season at the moment, they might be first at the moment but that has not come through convincing performances at all. They have yet to show consistency on both defensive and offensive fronts to show that they can manage their form over the course of a whole season. During the start of the season they were poor offensively but solid defensive, they were winning but not convincingly. Now they seem to be better offensively but that has come at a cost of being leaky defensively, conceding 3 goals to Augsburg at home is not something to look forward to at all.

    So it seems they go from one extreme to the next, they need to find balance and consistency in order for me to be confident they can win the league. Of course, their chances also depend alot on how Bayern perform over the season. Right now they are poor but you can be sure that if their form continues then the Bayern board won't hesitate in firing Kovac and bringing in a new manager (Jardim?).

    Another worry for this team over the long run, beyond this season, is that two players who have impressed lately, Paco Alcacer and Aschraf Hakimi (so much better than Pizseck) are on loan. While Paco has a buying clause (25 ME, which Barca can refuse), Real would definitely want Aschraf back if he has a great season, so Dortmund would automatically lose one of their best young players in the team. Add to that if Dortmund do win the league, you can bet Sancho/Pulisic/Akanji will have great seasons and therefore there will be big European clubs vying for their signature.

    With Dortmunds smaller budget compared to the bigger European teams, it will always be difficult for them to create a great long term team. It is always a 'one season at a time' planning because you never know which player of yours will want to leave after getting offers. We can only hope they find some success this season and, if not, they can can hold onto their best young players and push on next season when they develop more.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  32. Oct 12, 2018
    #32

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2002
    Messages:
    46,508
    Location:
    Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysa
    Yes. The worry is have they learned how to keep teams together
  33. Oct 12, 2018
    #33

    AndyJ1985 Full Member Verified Moaner

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,722
    And they do it by spending a fraction of what we do
  34. Oct 12, 2018
    #34

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    11,581
    Not sure whether they are building great side, their defense looked very poor in last game. They conceded 3 goals but conceded lot of chances.

    Attacking, they look so much better though.
  35. Oct 12, 2018
    #35

    FootballHQ Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2017
    Messages:
    3,883
    Supports:
    Aston Villa
    Still don't trust Burki, he's their Karius.

    Difference is they've got a top manager compared to the shambles of last season. Not quite sure they'll win anything major though, maybe the German cup.
  36. Oct 12, 2018
    #36

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    95,677
    Location:
    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    How come Dortmund do so well with finding great young players and great young managers? Can we please poach whoever is responsible?
  37. Oct 12, 2018
    #37

    Murray3007 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,301
    what do you mean expected goals ?
  38. Oct 12, 2018
    #38

    shahzadi Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,639
    Location:
    Oslo
    A signing like that makes sense for United given their current atmosphere. All the US Connections ...
  39. Oct 12, 2018
    #39

    saivet Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Messages:
    15,617
    The xG stat I assume
  40. Oct 12, 2018
    #40

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2014
    Messages:
    19,025
    I've watched them a few times this season and they don't look that good. I don't see them pulling off this unusual form for the season.

    They have the model to attract young players as a stepping stone club, we don't.