Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Randall Flagg, Apr 30, 2012.
Ah, the old Manc card. Good man. Night, now.
And divided they fall.
It's not about bottling it, or tactics, or leadership, or the nitty gritty of individual results through the season.
Man for man, player for player, they're better than us. It's heroic that we've managed to compete with them on equal terms this season. But not even Fergie can defy the gravity of football talent forever. It's very hard for any team to continue to punch above it's weight.
Anyone looking at that match tonight could spot the gap in quality between the blue and red shirts. Their passing, interplay, movement, confidence on the ball, ability to retain possession when challenged, and take on players, were all so much better. We need to improve.
He has a point when you look at some of the whining tarts in this thread. Complete embarassment.
Sorry but I don't think some the OOTer's get the rivalry as they haven't lived with it.
Hence threads like this which to me are pretty grim all things considered. I find it embarassing that visitors can actually read this.
While I mostly agree Will, their ability to cope without Kompany would have had a bigger influence on them than Vidic's loss has had on us. So there are many ways to measure it and one good one is the league table. Their first XI is probably a more powerful unit than ours, as tonight showed.
If Vidic had been fit for as many games as Kompany was for city then we would have won the league by now. That was the difference between the two teams. They had their captain, leader and best defender fit and he dragged them over the line with his performance tonight. Ours was unfortunately injured and thats football.
In the wider scheme of things we need to remember we have a better manager, a better stadium, a better support, a better history, a better philosophy and identity, and most of all we are a far bigger and far better club than the berties and will forever remain so. They are stuck in our shadow and they hate it.
Whatever happens we will be back stronger next season, and if their squad of untold riches has only managed to scrape past a weakened United this year by the skin of their teeth then we can take pride from that and look forward to the future.
They never have been, and never will be 'better than us'. You can fuck off with all that. We've fucked this season right up, we've handed them it. That's the most painful thing.
18 teams didn't get near City this season. We did.
Why does this count for nothing to some people? It's either all or nothing with football these days.
Messi & Barcelona go from The Best Ever to having an underwhelming season... Ronaldo is either the best in the world or a bottler... people are frankly driven to hyperbole with embarrassing ease these days.
Astonishing given the fact they spend over 100% of their revenue purely on wages that they actually don't have a stronger squad than us. Admittedly they have a stronger first eleven but if they had our bad luck with injuries this season we would have been long gone over the horizon with the title.
And that's a load of bollocks as well. You don't go 8 points clear when we did because we're 'punching above our weight'. City are where they are by complete chance, chance being us fucking up so badly.
Of course they don't, especially with City as in football terms there has never been a rivalry. That may change. Getting the rivalry is not the same as assessing things objectively and mixing them up is silly.
So because you are a Manc you will blindly hide away from what many think is the case?
City are not, never have been and never will be better than Manchester United. Absolutely ridiculous thread.
Nobody in Manchester is whining tonight then?
It's fair to say that people that don't live and work in Manchester, surrounded by City fans will ever have the same passion for the Derby as those who live it locally.
I would never expect anyone to hate Pittsburgh teams the way I do since I am surrounded by family and neighbors that are all fans of Pittsburgh teams.
I won't have to go to work tomorrow and deal with all the City supporters and my heart breaks for those of you that do. Lets just hope they fuck it up at Newcastle.
What's up with the timing of this thread? Did you just "realize" that they are better than us? We were poor tonight, but we lost 0-1. What if it had ended 0-0, and we had been 3 points up with two games to go? Would you still have created this thread?
Are they better than us? Perhaps. We've certainly got some fairly apparent weaknesses in our squad, primarily in midfield. But that just means they have a better squad than us. Those are not the same. And I am still not entirely convinced that they do have a better squad than us - and if they do it's certainly not by much.
I am as upset as anyone about this loss, and the way we've thrown away a fairly huge lead with only a few games to go. But the matter of fact is, we're even on points with two games to go. If not for our terrible finish, this could have been our best points haul in years, if not the best ever. Obviously you have to factor in our poor performances in cups, but there's the matter of our injury problems to consider. I'm not making excuses; like I said, we have to fix some weaknesses, but let's not go entirely doom and gloom here.
And, suppose we do end up losing the title to City. So what? Didn't this already happen a few years ago with Chelsea? And then we were beaten far more soundly over the course of the season. Perhaps the City owners will spend more and better than Chelsea did, but perhaps not. And perhaps the new UEFA rules will at least do something to curtail it.
TLDR: Terrible day, terrible performance, not a great season - but let's not go overboard.
If we end up winning the next 2 matches then we'll gather more points then we've got in the 2007-2008 league title. That despite this team being much weaker then that side. Which, kind of shows how ridiculous and biased your statistics are.
In my opinion SAF has been the central figure of United's 'success' throughout this season. He went toe to toe with Shitty with one of the weakest sides United had ever had throughout his entire reign and that despite, this team suffering one of the worst injury crisis ever.
I am not saying that we're shite. However considering that this is not the first game we've been completely owned (and against sides we may consider 'equal'/inferior to us) then maybe its time to get off from our high horse. Unless of course we don't want to sound Rawkish.
I disagree here, I think we are on par with them player for player or very close at least. We have better defenders, and our attack is even IMO (or was before Tevez returned) but midfield is where they are better. Tactics played a big part today, they weren't afraid to go for the win, unlike us. We went for a draw and United has never been a team who can go for draws like that.
Player for player, everyone fit, I would have Rio and Vidic over Lescott and Kompany (or Kompany with Vidic, but I compared them as partnerships). Left back are about the same and I would have Richards over any of our right backs. The only players from our midfield who could get in theirs are Scholes or Carrick in for Barry, but Toure and Silva get in easily. Now you could argue what formation you would use, but I would choose to use wingers every day, and IMO Nani is our best winger, and when on form he is on par with Silva on form. Comparing strikers, currently Rooney is better than anything they have, although in a few years I can see Aguero becoming better.
Anyways combined lineup for me is...
Richards Rio Vidic Evra
Nani Rooney Silva
6 players from United, 5 from City, although you can argue to put Clichy in there instead of Evra. Regardless, the starting 11 when fit are very similar, but we have much more depth. One of the problems tonight was just we didn't go out there to win it.
This thread has assessed nothing and with the title and opening content it has is embarassing.
I am glad others are noticing it now too.
No, again you miss the point completely.
Admitting a football team is better than another has nothing to do with rivalry.
If there is they're probably in this thread.
I know, to be honest I apologise as it was more of a dig at the OP for the crap he has produce than people like yourself.
I stand by what I say though, you would never get a Manc producing a thread like this.
Well, that's bullshit.
Why did you create a thread telling me what to think then?
If it is so obvious to you that City are better than United go support them then or do whatever you do.
You don't get the rivalry, this is obvious, hence why you see it as acceptable to post such rubbish on the forum.
No it doesn't. It exemplifies my point perfectly.
You said this is the worst United team under Fergie, or one of the worst. Obviously a plate of bollocks, that one.
We get "owned" in some games and "own" others. Every season.
You're trying, I'll give you that, but essentially you come across as unrealistic in your expectations of what you want from United. Not a problem, we'll see in the long run. My original point, that we are equals with City and didn't do ourselves justice in the two games against City this year, to me seems pretty straightforward. You either agree or you don't really, although the way you tried to argue your point ("The only real if..." is maybe the funniest way of trying to sidestep an argument I've ever seen!) speaks volumes, imo!
There are posts in the thread why people think city are better, personally as a whole I don't, as I have said in terms of how unlucky we have been and are still level on points. Embarrassing is either a word I don't understand or is used too freely. United have millions of fans, some of them are bound to be twats, and some of the twats might even com from Manchester. No need to get all parochial on us.
Well that makes no sense in terms of your OOT bashing.
I talk about us being in transition and nobody bothers their arse to respond. Dead on.
Edited your post enough times for now, dev?
The only thing I would add to this is that Fergie pretty much did all he could to set us up to fail tonight, and we still only lost 1-0 at the best performing ground in the country.
I'm sick of harping on about it, but that team selection was simply wrong. That we still managed to restrict them to just the 1 goal says something about the players tenacity and fight, regardless of our impotent attack.
I have to believe it would have been a very different match if we'd not played Giggs and Park. Neither deserves their place in such an important match based on form over the last 9 months.
And Fergie deserves all the criticism he get. He showed no balls. We're Manchester f*cking United playing Manchester City. Don't change our team because of them in a derby! Don't 'trust in old heads that haven't performed' - trust in youth and energy and verve.
How are our young players supposed to get to be legends like Giggs if they're not given the chance to prove themselves?
Agreed. It really is just a difference of perspective. I consider myself quite realistic but also a bit more glass-half-full than empty. Really don't see United's situation as desperate as some do, but then again I'm happy for that!
I was in a busy bar (United's supporters club meeting spot), and the atmosphere was one of confidence, even when we went down, there was a couple of bright spots, and a feeling we could get back into it.
They just wanted it that bit more tonight. No complaints.
So that opening post states why he feels City are better or offers some useful insight?
Along with a title "Man City are better than us" ?
Nah sorry not having it. I am all for discussion but not bollocks like this.
Devilish is like a pig in shit tonight. Happy as Larry that he's finally allowed to complain as much as he likes.
I can separate rivalry and realism. I don't allow certain things to cloud my own judgment.
I have no problem if you disagree with my OP. but as of right now I believe City are a better side. It is hardly an outlandish opinion.
Not having what?
It's one guy starting a conversation with his opinion. Other opinions follow.
Lots of people on here spout what I consider utter bollocks, you either argue against them or ignore them, not turn it into some retarded georgaphy based insult.
I think maybe you don't get football if that's what you think. Nobody supports a team because they are the best.
Go on then, why are they a better side?
I would say it is an outlandish opinion, especially on a Manchester United forum.
I don't only disagree with your OP I think it is piss poor as it offers nothing. You have just posted a statement with a imflamatory title to generate interest, yet you have the audacity to pick at other posters and what they bring to the forum.
It is bizarre.
No I do get football, I just don't understand our supporters who can make remarks such as the OP. Then again, as I have explained, perhaps it is the OOT thing.
You are kidding right? I'd put a wager that 80% of our support did just that when choosing United.
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