Are people going to insist this isn't as bad or worse than the nadirs of LVG and Moyes?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Fortitude, Dec 1, 2018.

  1. Dec 6, 2018 at 22:59

    wolvored Full Member

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    Thats a big assumption with no proof whatsoever.
    https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-news/man-utd-transfer-team-fixtures-14948674
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36480527
    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/f...lof-Manchester-United-transfer-news-interview
  2. Dec 6, 2018 at 23:07

    wolvored Full Member

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    they are all as bad as one another. Moyes VG and Mourinho all had the odd good game, but the majority is just the same shit different 'styles' of play.
  3. Dec 6, 2018 at 23:21

    Smores Full Member

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    Nothing could be worse than LvGs second season. As negative as we can be under Jose at times LvG was torture and it felt like sabotage by the players.

    I like threads like this they let the LvG lot slip up and a big bunch on them are some of the most critical (and hypocritical) as well. I'm convinced they enjoy giving it back because they had to defend LvG. The key difference being i think most criticised LvG with great sadness not glee. I'll never get those who enjoy criticising any of our staff.
  4. Dec 6, 2018 at 23:32

    tjb Full Member

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    I actually think this is worse. With LVG's team i believed and most certainly believe now that that was our genuine level. He did not cause disruption amongst the squad, and in my opinion, deserved the sack more for his poor performances in the transfer market than anything. Moyes was poor, we knew he was poor, he knew he was poor, and we had not wasted much money on signings and bad contracts. Mourinho has done all of that, but the worst thing about him is the negative, almost toxic atmosphere he has created at the club. I agree with the grievances he has, but the way he has gone about it has been horrible. It has shown no respect for the club and almost seems completely selfish. He also has the best squad of the three avalailable to him and could have built the squad in so many different ways, now he wants to blow it all up and get new players. If this went on for the entire season, it would be much worse, but hopefully woodward has learnt from his mistakes with LVG and Moyes.
  5. Dec 6, 2018 at 23:36

    reddaz71 Full Member

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    3 shocking appointments but who's responsible for that? Yep the invincible Ed Woodward!
  6. Dec 6, 2018 at 23:38

    tjb Full Member

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    I have issues with Woodward, but I won't say Mourinho was a bad appointment. In all honesty, Mourinho hurt his legacy and spoilt a brilliant chance for himself here. He had all that power, at a club that famously backs the manager, and managed to turn everybody against him.
  7. Dec 6, 2018 at 23:57

    Foxbatt Full Member

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    Yes in the end I wanted him gone too but at least he tried to get his team a sort of football. Boring it may be there was a purpose in his plans. As for Holland it is obvious that with two aging stars it is surprising that he got them to the third place. They had just Robben and RVP. Nothing else much to talk about. He had the calamitous Martins Indi in defence. At least they did not kick the hell out of their opponents like the earlier Dutch team.
    I wish he has succeeded at United. Once it get going his teams normally play good football. I think his issue was the players he had good not move the ball as quickly as he wanted and their movements off the ball was way too off.
    It is difficult to get this right in the PL and I think Pep three years to get it right with a lot of very good players.
  8. Dec 7, 2018 at 01:15

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    This is worse than lvg's second season.
  9. Dec 7, 2018 at 01:18

    SS Full Member

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    While the appointments have been poor, you can't really blame him for bringing in Moyes. That's completely on Fergie, to be honest.
  10. Dec 7, 2018 at 01:24

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    Fergie recommended him, he dint dictate his successor to the board or Woodward. Proper procedure was followed and the board including Fergie and Woodward reached a unanimous decision on him, so I wouldn't absolve Woodward of it as well.
  11. Dec 7, 2018 at 01:27

    SS Full Member

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    Of course, it was just a recommendation, but was anyone really going to challenge Sir Alex Ferguson's judgement on who'd make a good manager? The board clearly know feck all about football anyway, so who exactly would have piped up against one of the greatest managers of all time?
  12. Dec 7, 2018 at 01:30

    BluesJr Full Member

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    Let’s not forget we won the FA Cup with LVG and were at least in the hunt for top four, in the terrible 2nd year. Those two things will not happen this season.
  13. Dec 7, 2018 at 01:34

    GiddyUp Full Member

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    Yes, I work for United and I was integral to the negotiations. Stupid fecking question. Of course I don't but from what I remember there was no speculation or paper talk. Ed got off the chopper with Mata already signed before anyone knew what was happening and judging by dithering Dave's transfer game he just accepted a very good but out of favor Chelsea player.
  14. Dec 7, 2018 at 01:42

    GiddyUp Full Member

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    His buy out clause was 4 million less 2 weeks before we bought him. FFS, has everyone forgotten the fecking shitshow Moyes was. Short fecking memories. Moyes and LVG were dreadful and big contributors to the state this club is in right now.
    By the way, I like Fellaini, he has a purpose and I got the feeling he would end up here at some point.
  15. Dec 7, 2018 at 02:01

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    Something comes to mind that hasnt been discussed. Player... how should i say it... power? Since fergie?

    I think we are the club with the most players problems since fergie retires. On top of my head : line up leaks, player outburst, chips incident, giggs undermining lvg in public, comments about jagielka and how moyes read a management books, our ex staff and ex pundits slagging us, martial gone awol, pogba comment, valencia rumored bust up with mourinho...
  16. Dec 7, 2018 at 03:57

    shamans Hoser

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    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    Ah so it's just a fantasy you've cooked up. Nice.
  17. Dec 7, 2018 at 06:54

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    It's not worse. Moyes took over when there was less money and competition in the league. His squad has just won the league and still had some left in them. He just needed to replace some and build further upon what SAF had done. He gave Rooney a 5-year contract, bought Fellaini and finished outside Europe playing dross football.

    LVG had to rebuild but he got a lot of money to do so. A good core of players to build around and Moyes hadn't fecked anything up for him that couldn't be salvaged regarding the squad. LvG brought in 13 players in 2 seasons for an average of ~24m a piece and raised the wage bill considerably with fat has beens (Valdes, Falcao, Schweinsteiger). His club record signing fecked off to better pasture in France at a discount. The sub is angry now but there was a suicide watch during his reign, that's how boring his football was. The positives were Martial and Luke Shaw signing (only reaping fruits now).

    Mourinho has bought 11 players in 3 seasons for an average of 38m a piece and he had to get rid of players. His football has not been good but we've definitely been better with a 2nd place finish in a stronger league and a couple of trophies. His transfers have been better but overall disappointing as well as the other seasons. It's not great but anyone that thinks that things are worse has a short memory or simply has blocked the other tenures out. This particular season might reach Moyes levels but there's still a lot of time before it's in that hole. Again, the league wasn't nearly as strong when Moyes was in charge as it is now at the top. Finishing outside top 4 was simply mindblowingly bad with his squad.
  18. Dec 7, 2018 at 07:54

    Fortitude TV/Monitor Expert Scout

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    The most interesting thing for me in some of these replies is the cognitive dissonance from the utterly dire football we bear witness to every game right now. It's like it's not even happening judging by some of these replies. Almost seems like a coping mechanism and method of self preservation until we finally see the back of him.

    Slating others for not recalling the past whilst actively erasing the present in real time is pretty amusing.
  19. Dec 7, 2018 at 08:07

    jmaggio Banned

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    So I just found myself checking Brighton, Everton and Bournouth fixtures this weekend to see if we can make it to 6th:rolleyes:
  20. Dec 7, 2018 at 09:05

    anant Full Member

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    Adding on to that,

    David Moyes Awful Season:
    14 games
    9th poistion
    Point difference between us and 4th : 5 points
    Point difference between us and 1st : 12 points

    LVG Awful Season (Sideways football season):
    14 games
    3rd position
    Point difference between us and 1st : 1 point

    Jose This Season:
    14 games
    8th position
    Point difference between us and 4th : 8 points
    Point difference between us and 1st :18 points
  21. Dec 7, 2018 at 10:05

    SwedishFish New Member

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    People seem to forget how incredibly dull United was to watch under LVG and how many distinctly poor mediocre signings that he made. I give him credit for giving younger lads a chance but the team look as lacklustre as they did under his final year in charge as they do now, scrapping for wins but most of the time end up drawing or even losing games because of overly negative tactics. Not entirely surprising as Mourinho and LVG are cut from the same cloth when it comes to managers.

    I think a lot of people tend to forget how incredibly strict LVG's type of football was with the player's roles on the pitch and how it was literally sucking all creativity out of the entire team. Most of the time we just passed it around for what felt like hours hoping that Martial or Rashford towards the end of his last season was to come up with something. Even though Mourinho's first season wasn't a success in terms of results, the play was substantially better and more exciting than under LVG.

    I still think Moyes was even worse, the team had just won the league and you'd have to take that into the equation. The most frustrating thing about the Mourinho reign is that he's stockpiling expensive players and contracts that are simply not working out and end up chucking them on the bench. Soon 3 years will have gone by since we sacked LVG and we made absolutely no progress whatsoever.

    The key to any future success is to break up the pattern of managerial appointments and to dare to get someone in who can play the sort of football the fans want to see, I for one would rather see us lose 4-3 than 2-1 if it means that we play exciting attacking football.

    I'd say we're this seasons Arsenal, we're again hitting a fork in the road where we'll have to decide what path to go down next and the decision will be more important than ever to maintain the Manchester United brand. We just cannot afford to be this inconsistent and negative anymore.
  22. Dec 7, 2018 at 10:08

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    I see there's been some revisionism on here lately regarding LvG's tenure. I understand things are rock bottom at the minute but things under LvG were absolutely terrible, too.
  23. Dec 7, 2018 at 10:09

    FootyGirl88

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    :lol:
  24. Dec 7, 2018 at 15:59

    GiddyUp Full Member

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    No it's opinion, like 99.99% of comments on this forum. Where's you're proof? Who at the club have you spoken to?
  25. Dec 7, 2018 at 16:01

    GiddyUp Full Member

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    Someone said that Moyes would have had us consistantly in the top 4 had we not got rid. fecking height of delusion in this thread is ridiculous.
  26. Dec 7, 2018 at 16:02

    shamans Hoser

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    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    I'm assuming a manager makes the transfers. The regular thing that happens. You're assuming some cooked up fantasy of Woodward smuggling in Mata behind Moyes' back. I'm not sure which one of us needs to provide proof here.
  27. Dec 7, 2018 at 16:09

    GiddyUp Full Member

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    Ah you're assuming, so that makes you right and everyone wrong. I cooked up a fantasy yet you didn't. Most big clubs have other people to negotiate transfers, surely you know this
  28. Dec 7, 2018 at 16:12

    Water Melon before it dries out, eh

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    Are there posters on here who believe thatwe bought players whom Mourinho rejected?
  29. Dec 7, 2018 at 16:15

    shamans Hoser

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    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    Yes I'm assuming Moyes bought Mata. You're assuming some James bond plot line regarding Mata, Woodward and a helicopter :lol:
  30. Dec 7, 2018 at 16:23

    GiddyUp Full Member

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    Idiotic post from you. Go back and read what I wrote. Also, Google is you're friend. Mata arrived at Carrington by helicopter to sign his contract which was most certainly not negotiated by David fecking Moyes. You should look this up instead of assuming everyone is fantasizing. You're having a mate in this thread by the way.
  31. Dec 7, 2018 at 16:28

    GiddyUp Full Member

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    A few. There is also some posters who are getting confused with Moyes's 10 years at Everton and his 10 months at United.
  32. Dec 7, 2018 at 16:38

    shamans Hoser

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    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.

    You're right. I should just believe Ed came with Mata on a helicopter, presented him to Moyes and said "whadya think? Contract all negotiated too" and Moyes said "eh Fine, I accept". :lol:

    P.S: This is what Mata said about the transfer

    But nah, I like your James Bond plot better. You know more. :lol:
  33. Dec 7, 2018 at 16:44

    Irish Jet Full Member

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    December of LVG’s second season was by far the worst state this club has been in since I’ve supported them.

    We were struggling to get a shot on goal. Didn’t win a game. Lost to Norwich, Bournemouth, Stoke. Mourinho will do well to match it. Roll on Fulham.
  34. Dec 7, 2018 at 17:02

    Foxbatt Full Member

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    If we don't get 4th place and do not win a trophy Mourinhio this season would have easily met and gone beyond the worst of LVG.
  35. Dec 7, 2018 at 20:52

    Irish Jet Full Member

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    Nah.

    That was the worst top 4 in the history of the PL. LVG’s side wouldn’t come close vs this Top 5.
  36. Dec 7, 2018 at 21:56

    Foxbatt Full Member

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    Then the same way last year's 2nd place would not be second place with this top 5. LVG won usually against top teams. We had a lot of bad decisions going against us in that season starting with the Leicester penalty. Yes I agree it was boring and he made many mistakes and one of the biggest was dropping Rooney into midfield and also not buying a couple of world class players. We played boring football but at least we had a way of playing instead of trying to hoof to Lukaku who would wave his arms about.
  37. Dec 7, 2018 at 22:40

    Irish Jet Full Member

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    Of course it would. The top 4 last year resembles what we’re seeing this year.

    We were lucky Chelsea dropped off and we got a quite a few fortunate results. We literally would have won the league with that points total in LVG’s second season, which is the season I’m talking about.
  38. Dec 8, 2018 at 08:00

    Nytram Shakes Full Member

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    well Moyes was appointed before he took over.

    And in fairness to Woodward, LVG & where by far the most popular choices to manage the club. Especially Mourinho you read these forums at the years before he was appointed and he was basically seen as the messiah who could do anything by the vast majority.

    I think with Woodward the issue has become obvious is that like those fans who who though Mourinho was going to be a good appointment, he just doesn't have enough football knowledge to handle the football side of the business. With managers he has just gone for the biggest name on the market both times. WHich is what most fans wanted but obviously was not the correct decision.
  39. Dec 8, 2018 at 08:06

    jmaggio Banned

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    I have realised Ed Woodward is replacing fans with customers. Problem with that is customers have no loyalty. This is why we are seeing empty seats at OT. Genuinely never thought I would see it in my lifetime.

    This is a dark timeline.
  40. Dec 8, 2018 at 08:14

    tieunhilang New Member

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    Careful what you wish for, I guess. It came true after all. :D