Are people going to insist this isn't as bad or worse than the nadirs of LVG and Moyes?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Fortitude, Dec 1, 2018.

  1. Dec 2, 2018

    iluvoursolskjær Full Member

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    Oh it’s definitely worse. Mourinho has actually made shit results acceptable now and he’s done this by cleverly lowering expectations. Rants about football heritage one week, throwing players under the bus the next, throwing toys out the pram after overseeing the expenditure of 400 odd million. It’s the Mourinho show, Mourinho FC, and his disregard for the club is infuriating sometimes.

    It’s fecking sad. I hate him more than Moyes. Well no, but almost.
  2. Dec 2, 2018

    RedRonaldo Full Member

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    In terms of money invested vs performances. Yes we are currently the worst under Mourinho now.
  3. Dec 2, 2018

    nikineil Full Member

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    That’s a curious viewpoint. Honestly, where do you see us go from here? As in lower where?
  4. Dec 2, 2018

    Camy89 Love Island obsessive

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    1. Out of Europe.
    2. Fall down the league further losing to mid-table sides.
    3. Spanked by Liverpool mid-December
    4. Run a 2nd string team against Woking in the FA cup 3rd round and lose.

    If there's going to be a nadir, at this rate, I'm predicting it to be around Christmas.
  5. Dec 2, 2018

    Rifer Full Member

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    I think this season is the worst post-SAF era.
    From top worst to 'okay'...

    1. Mou 3rd Season 18/19 -- rubbish joke meme football shit.
    2. LVG 2nd Season 15/16 -- bad dreams joke meme football shit.
    3. Moyes 1st Season 13/14 -- remnants of SAF's squad.
    4. LVG 1st season 14/15 -- it's the hope that counts.
    5. Mou 2nd season 17/18 -- boring but solid season. Mou's misbehaving starts here..
    6. Mou 1st season 16/17 -- shit finishing in 6th or something but exciting games with Zlatan, Pogba, Herrera, Carrick, Bailly-Rojo.
  6. Dec 2, 2018

    frookydinho New Member

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    Definitely the lowest it's been since Fergie retired. At least before there seemed to be hope, now i just expect the same s##t decisions to be made. Genuinely feel it's going to be a long time till we win the title again
  7. Dec 2, 2018

    tieunhilang New Member

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    There's no way LVG's 2nd season was worse than Moyes's season. At least big teams were still scared of us during his tenure. And we turn City, Arsenal, Liverpool upside down too. Only Mourinho's Chelsea escaped that fate while facing us, ironically.
  8. Dec 2, 2018

    Che Guevara New Member

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    Since his winning run started at Porto, this is the first time that Jose has failed to win the league within the first two seasons at a club. He is no longer the same Jose of old, even the humorous pressers have disappeared. Is he past it?
  9. Dec 2, 2018

    Man-United Full Member

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    When he leaves he leaves us with replacing aged players like Matic, Sanchez also. So poor signings.
  10. Dec 2, 2018

    EwanI Ted Full Member

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    This feels very like the Moyes season. Under LVG it felt like we were over planned and over controlled, there was no room for creative expression and it was frustrating the players (and fans). But at least we had a solid base and our control of possession meant we had a fighting chance in most games, especially against other top teams.

    But under Moyes and this season under Mourinho we just look all over the place. No shape, no plan, no direction, no tactics, no motivation. In both cases, I can't even explain what kind of football we play, we just send a random team selection out and hope something will happen. From one week to the next, there's no consistency. And we're barely in December. This could get even messier than under Moyes.
  11. Dec 2, 2018

    B20 HEY EVERYONE I IGNORE SOMEONE LOOK AT ME

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    I'd say you are worse now than under LVG but some way to go before reaching Moyes levels.

    It's a hard reach though. It wasn't just the results with Moyes. It was the utter befuzzlement Moyes imparted from the touchline as he stood there wondering why they aren't just winning. There was a definite sense that any team could get something from you, especially if they scored the first goal, and you would not know how to reply.

    Under mourinho it's not quite there yet. Your poor football has more a sense of 'they are their own worst enemy' character to it, with possibilities that they will galvanise at half time, than the "deer caught in the headlights" character of Moyes United. Moyes being a total loser whenever he opened his mouth added to it.

    It could get there though. Bizarre lineups like yesterday is something that will surely fire up the opposition to have a good go. I think we're a mourinho meltdown and some unjust losses, where you were trying but still shit, away from reaching total fatalistic "never meant to be anything but a train wreck" surrender.
  12. Dec 2, 2018

    .Phil1968 Full Member

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    It's on a par with the late 80s in my opinion.i remember going to a game v Sheffield Wednesday midweek we drew 1-1 but never mind the result it was possibly the worst performance I have ever seen from a United team. Until this season. The clock is ticking for many at the club including owners management and many players. It's really very depressing.
  13. Dec 2, 2018

    Foxbatt Full Member

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    It is utter bewilderment. How can 10 International players continue to play so horrible football week after week. I remember Herrera and Rashford and even Shaw trying to make movements off the ball and the pass would never come. We are not talking about fantastic long distance passes but a pass any International player of a PL player should be able to to every day and in every match.
    This certainly is worse than the worst of LVG for sure. With LVG other teams are nervous not knowing which United will turn up? With Jose everyone knows which United will turn up. Easy to beat one
  14. Dec 5, 2018

    Minimalist New Member

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    Yeah sorry this is in every way worse than Moyes and LVGs second season. By every fecking measure.

    Comfortably the worst manager post-Fergie to me given his rep and the stupid amount of money he's spent to deliver this dreadful football.
  15. Dec 5, 2018

    JohnnyKills Full Member

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    It's worse than LVG for sure. At least LVG was bringing through young players and had a plan.

    Moyes was a different level of shite.
  16. Dec 5, 2018

    Chairman Steve Full Member

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    Joses on his third season and doesn’t know his best XI or what subs are consistently reliable for him...I think that’s up there with Moyes’ incompetence and LVG’s ultra conservative Ambien football.
  17. Dec 5, 2018

    Foxbatt Full Member

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    Hanging on for dear life at OT against any team is simply not good enough. Especially after spending all this money. It is yes as bad as those terrible days under certainly Moyes.
  18. Dec 5, 2018

    tomaldinho1 Full Member

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    In terms of team setup, this is as bad as we've ever been.

    Football wise, nothing will beat Moyes' million crosses to nothing strategy for making me hit the sofa in anger
  19. Dec 5, 2018

    Ronaldo's ego Full Member

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    How we long for the days of Moyes. The fact we’re having this discussion near halfway through Jose’s third season shows how bad things have got
  20. Dec 6, 2018

    Devil may care Full Member

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    Mourinho actually makes me miss LvG.
  21. Dec 6, 2018

    Patrick220571 Full Member

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    It's bad, but it could get even worse. His final few months at Chelsea in 2015, those 9 defeats in 16 games were an absolute disaster, and he had a better squad overall at Chelsea.

    How far they had fallen under him was proved by a largely past it Hiddink being brought in and managing to only lose 3 of the 22 league games he was in charge of.
  22. Dec 6, 2018

    tenpoless Full Member

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    Anything looks golden compared to Moyes.
  23. Dec 6, 2018

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    Worse than LvG, still better than Moyes.
  24. Dec 6, 2018

    Paul_Scholes18 Full Member

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    Not really. With LVG there was so little hope that he would ever change his dull football. Mourinho is just exploding so maybe he can wake up from his own insanity. Need everyone around him to question his methods and football more. I guess the media doesn't and not our assistants either.

    Also I think there can be a big boost after Mourinho. Like a heavy stone removed from everyones shoulders. With LVG gone it was like waking up from coma and still feeling dizzy and not really having too much energy.
  25. Dec 6, 2018

    Paul_Scholes18 Full Member

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    Moyes actually had some good results in the champions league and also did better in the cup that season. Equally terrible in the league, but overall better from Moyes. I think Moyes tried to play better football too and was slightly less negative. Although yes Moyes, LVG and Mourinho has all been bad in different ways. If I had to pick one I would say I rather go without a manager and have pure Anarchy or Woodward as our manager.
  26. Dec 6, 2018

    Devil may care Full Member

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    The games are practically unwatcable, even moreso than under LvG IMO, and then there's the fact Mourinho is an odious little man sewing these seeds of discontent between fans and players with his systematic burial of the ones he dislikes. LvG was just an eccentric has-been, not malicous.
  27. Dec 6, 2018

    Minimalist New Member

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    He just wanted to pull your hair and indulge in a little bit of horny sado-masochism...fat man!
  28. Dec 6, 2018

    JB08 Searches for nude pics of Marcos Rojo

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    LVG = Mourinho > Moyes
  29. Dec 6, 2018

    Devil may care Full Member

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    He got the players horny.
  30. Dec 6, 2018

    midnightmare Full Member

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    Not worse than Moyes, yet. Moyes had us playing bizarre football a season after the same squad had won the PL; he was telling us that SAF would struggle to win games...with the team that SAF had (literally) won the PL with the previous year. So no, Mou hasn't yet reached Moyes ("we need to aspire to Liverpool's level", "we'll try to give Newcastle a tough game") level yet.

    Far worse than anything from LvG, I will grant...though that December from Hell comes very close to outstripping everything if you take points in time.
  31. Dec 6, 2018

    kps88 Full Member

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    Things were definitely worse under Moyes.

    I also don't think people remember just how dull we were under LVG. We would keep the ball for ages and do nothing with it. He had us playing like robots; it was intentional dullness. With a few exceptions, I don't think we've been as boring to watch this season. It's just a complete lack of quality.

    The comparisons aren't entirely fair though as Jose's been here the longest and had the most transfer windows out of them all, so we naturally should be expecting better.
  32. Dec 6, 2018

    BrilliantOrange Full Member

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    Its been getting worse every year since SAF left, regardless whether a more recent year has been slightly more hopefull than the one before... Every year we stray further and further away from what makes/made Manchester United Manchester United... The whole reputation of greatness, attacking play, giving youth a chance, is vanishing with every game we continue with this nonsens..

    Not only will we have less appeal on younger fans all over the world, we will also have less appeal on younger players all over the world.. I give Manchester United zero.zero chance of signing De Jong and De Ligt coming summer, which is a crazy and bizarre statement but i thinks its true.. The longer we wait to make drastic changes, the harder it will be to turn the club around again to become what is was not that long ago...
  33. Dec 6, 2018

    midnightmare Full Member

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    I do remember the LvG days and like I said, "that" December was more awful than anything, but the mitigations exist. Under LvG, we didn't look so absolutely bereft of any sense of identity and style. You could dislike it, but it existed. Right now, we are like a lurching drunk in an antique shop. You don't know what to expect, but know that whatever comes, it won't be pretty and will only cause further damage. Another thing is the manager's words.

    LvG didn't constantly undermine the players and club. To me, regardless of results, it's Jose's words and pronouncements that should be his end. From the Sevilla presser onwards, he's dissed the players, the squad as a whole as well as the entire club. Including our history. It's not on and is not something that LvG ever did.
  34. Dec 6, 2018

    Yorkeontop Full Member

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    It's bad enough to suggest that we can't just fire José and hire somebody else without changing things elsewhere as well.
  35. Dec 6, 2018

    R'hllor Full Member

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    What pisses me off is that i thought that he will see us as whole worth of him changing some of his ways, not all but some. Nope, he just couldnt help him self and to think people were drooling about United being his ultra mega giga dream club, yea right, some opposition managers showed more respect towards us.
  36. Dec 6, 2018

    Josh 76 Full Member

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    The thing with when Moyes and LVG were managers, there was hope that once Utd sack either of them, a new manager would come in, spend a couple of hundred million and we will be title contenders again.

    This time the whole club is in a mess. The manager, board and players. And to make matters worse City and the Scousers are so far ahead of us, it doesn't even bare thinking about what the future holds.
  37. Dec 6, 2018

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate Scout

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    Funnily enough, Wenger used to comment games on french TV and he was extremely respectful when it came to United, SAF and the players, SAF, Rooney, Scholes and Giggs in particular. He has been the most respectful manager that I have heard talk about United.
  38. Dec 6, 2018

    mark_a Full Member

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    Does whether it's better or worse matter? If it's worse (which is subjective anyway) is that then a given that we sack Mourhino? If we do sack him, what's there to stop us being in a similar position this time in 18 months or 2 years when we reach another nadir?! This same post happened under LvG, i.e. "is it worse than under Moyes?".

    Whether I'm a Mourinho in or Mourinho out person, fact is he gets a hard time. Robbie Savage on 5 straight after the game, I listened walking from the ground & he was hysterical. Apparently they had more shots on goal (false), we were uninspired and workmanlike (which is progress if you consider last few games!). He was going on about the manager. Any fair assessment would say it was an improved performance on the last couple. We had shape and some zip about us, an improvement. But typical of the treatment of us / Mourinho. There's never credit for what we may do, it's just focus on what we're not doing. You could view yesterday's better performance, with injuries, against an in-form Arsenal as positive. But no, in the face of the choice of say something nuanced and possibly positive, it reverts to "United are 8th!", "United are behind Bournemouth!", "I'd never say sack a manager, but ..." etc.... I know Sav is a grade A tw*t, but there's a them across the media. He was saying "they've signed people over the summer", but previously there was criticism because we didn't sign anybody, that was how they were framing our failure back in Sept!
  39. Dec 6, 2018

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    100% as bad as the other two managers considering how much he has spent. He needs to go immediately. The fact he hasn't been sacked really is a concern. When will the board finally act ffs?
  40. Dec 6, 2018

    Xixak17 New Member

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    Give Moyes this squad and he gets top 4 his first season.

    Give Van Gaal this squad and he wins the league his 2nd season.

    Mourinho has by far the best squad we've had since Ferguson and Jose has us 8th. And his stupid fecking cult is still telling us we need to back the manager. If Jose stays on this will be the end of Manchester United. We are going to lose our best players, sponsors will no longer want to be associated with a mid-table side and fans will stop coming. That means less money for the Glazers so they won't spend to improve and we will end up like AC Milan did.

    If the board thinks we're too big to fail they are sadly mistaken. They need to wake the hell up and get this guy out right now. Get a director of football in and let him oversee the footballing vision and hire a new manager who fits the ethos of the club (attacking football, promoting youth, trophies). Changes need to be made now before there is an exodus.