Are people going to insist this isn't as bad or worse than the nadirs of LVG and Moyes?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Fortitude, Dec 1, 2018.

  1. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:16

    rooneyberbatov New Member

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    I’m not sure we were worse, but I’m pretty sure there have never been more negative emotions than now. Mourinho gives such negative vibes that I can’t find any positives about him or his team management. We soak up negativity like a sponge and I blame Jose. His comments are usually discouraging and disrespectful, the whole attitude depressing and the set up hopeless. He’s sucking the life and soul out of the team and the fans.
  2. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:23

    Rash Decision Full Member

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    I almost want to see what Van Gaal would do with this squad. Almost. Although I suspect some of the players would get very frustrated with his rigid system.
  3. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:25

    Roboc7 Full Member

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    This is the worst United team in the Premier League era, they will finish 7th at best and possibly even lower.

    Arsenal have evolved more in few months than we have in Mourinho’s entire tenure, he gets an incredibly easy ride in the press and in the stadium given his performance.

    We often get called the biggest club in the world but we’re small time evause we have allowed this situation to develop. Mourinho Like Moyes and LVG will leave behind a mess.
  4. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:47

    The Purley King Full Member

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    At least LVG had a system.
    Jose's only 'system' is to put Fellaini up front for the last x minutes and lump it up to him.
  5. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:51

    Dwazza Coke is it!

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    You know what he'd do. Put us all to sleep with sideways passes and zero penetration.
  6. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:51

    Xixak17 New Member

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    His system is "rigid" yes but the foundations of it aren't that different from Guardiola's. With players of this level like Sanchez, Pogba, Fred, etc in addition to Rashford and Martial we would've been ripping teams apart with that passing and movement.
  7. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:52

    Xixak17 New Member

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    Ah yeah because Jose's style is so exciting. Zip it cultist.
  8. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:57

    r3idy Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    It's a difficult one as I think Mourhinio is hitting bottom and I think he can turn it around. He's managed super huge ego's in the past so not sure why this situation with Pogba is getting out of control. My problem with Jose is his strange and sometimes downright stubborn selections e.g. Matic

    Moyes on the other hand, out of his depth from day one, never had any confidence in him and when he started to slide, you never knew where it was going to stop. So for me, not as bad as Moyes
  9. Dec 6, 2018 at 14:59

    Bilbo Full Member

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    I can only speak for myself, but this is the worst that I've ever felt as a United fan.

    Moyes - I'm on record. I thought the club should have given him another season. Still believe that

    Van Gaal - the football was mostly very boring to watch, but I still felt that he was attempting something, and the times that it worked we were very, very good. We fired him at the right time though IMO

    Mourinho - its the spitefulness of it all that makes it what it is for me. The unshakeable feeling that he is simply trying to preserve his reputation rather than having any feeling for the club. I can understand it, but I can't forgive it. Sooner he is gone the better, even if it means we promote from within. I genuinely don't care who replaces him, as long as someone does.
  10. Dec 6, 2018 at 15:00

    Rash Decision Full Member

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    Yes agreed.

    I'd like to think so, but I feel there's very little basis to believe that it would have worked. There was passing and movement but it was almost always at glacial speeds. I recently went to rewatch his first pre-season game against LA Galaxy though and we looked a team in that game. If only it had worked out that way :(
  11. Dec 6, 2018 at 15:00

    robinamicrowave Wanted to be bran, ended up being littlefinger

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    Looking from the outside, I'd say you're somewhere in between the lowest point under Moyes and the lowest point under Van Gaal. The lowest point under Moyes surely has to be the winter of 2013 when it became clear you couldn't turn things around in time to finish in the top six, let alone in the top four. Van Gaal's lowest point was probably the Christmas of 2015 - going six games without a win and losing at home to Norwich during that period was quite something. Right now, the expectations are significantly higher than they were under Van Gaal so even if the football isn't quite as turgid as it was during his reign, it feels worse because the money spent and the quality returned are poles apart. I think Mourinho's first two seasons were solid enough - you were poor in the league during his first year but you won two trophies, and your points total last season would have made for an interesting title battle had we not run away with it from October - but he's taken the team so far backwards in such a short space of time. I think you were really building something until that 0-0 draw at Anfield which was quickly followed by the 2-1 defeat to Huddersfield. Since then, nothing's really come together at any point for any length of time and ever since that defeat to Spurs at Wembley it's completely collapsed. It's fair enough if the performances aren't up to snuff, even with the money spent, because I don't think you're quite as bad as you were under Moyes. You're frustrating and poor to watch at the moment, but you're not hilariously disorganised like you were in the 13-14 season. Mourinho's such an obnoxious and poisonous presence when things aren't going well, though, that this could really get quite nasty for all involved the longer the board holds on. As a few posters in this thread have already said, things are bad right now but they could get worse if the rumours are true that Mourinho's only still here because Woodward doesn't want to pay him. Mourinho's shown in the past that he doesn't give a feck who he hurts when he knows he's on the way out and he could make you worse than you were under Moyes if he gets his way.
  12. Dec 6, 2018 at 15:03

    0le Full Member

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    I think this is an excellent summary of the current state of affairs. I will also add that the consequence of this uncertainty is that many players have contracts running down either this summer or next.
  13. Dec 6, 2018 at 15:04

    Born2Lose Full Member

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    This is the worst time since Ferguson left without a doubt for me. I can't pretend like some that a half decent performance once in a while is any indication that Mourinho will eventually turn things around.

    The league position doesn't really bother me, but the poisonous atmosphere, the awful football, the moronic selections, Mourinho's manchild antics and talk of guys like Perreira leaving the club are really depressing.
  14. Dec 6, 2018 at 15:08

    Wednesday at Stoke Full Member

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    Van Gaal's problem was recruitment, he'd have developed the likes of Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Tuanzebe, Fosu Mensah and Pereira but there's no way in hell players like Pogba or Zlatan come here without Jose. We might have ended up getting Mueller eventually though.
  15. Dec 6, 2018 at 15:11

    Fredo Full Member

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    People seem to forget when we had Moyes we just waited for the final whistle while accepting the result whatever it was, no fight, no spirit, just defeat after defeat against teams who wouldn't have dreamed of getting anything in a game against us. LVG, plenty of possession, barely 1-2 shots on target, pass the ball across the back 4/5, move forward, stop, play backwards, repeat. The only time where LVG trusted youth was when our squad was full of injuries.
  16. Dec 6, 2018 at 15:30

    RedRonaldo Full Member

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    In terms of total amount of money spent and time given to build the squad, Mourinho is clearly the worst.
  17. Dec 6, 2018 at 15:36

    Siorac Full Member

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    He would bore us to death with it.

    Really, there is no need for revisionism with Van Gaal. I appreciate that he had a clear vision, an idea about how to play football and he wanted his team to dominate games and impose themselves on the opponents.

    But he was also a gigantic control freak who heavily discouraged flair and expression in favour of positional discipline and careful possession. Not sure when he became like that but people change with age.
  18. Dec 6, 2018 at 15:41

    RE1999 New Member

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    Am I only the one who enjoyed watching last night then?!
  19. Dec 6, 2018 at 15:41

    GaryLifo Nice Bloke

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    Jose probably is the wrong man at the wrong time.

    Arguing that LVG should be anywhere near this club as anything other than a spectator? I'm not having it.

    The football we played under him truly made me want to give up watching the game. 80 minutes plus before our first shot on target in many games.

    Not. Having. It.
  20. Dec 6, 2018 at 15:43

    Bilbo Full Member

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    Moyes tenure was more difficult to judge emotionally. Finishing outside of the top 4 was unthinkable. Younger fans hadn't ever experienced it, and for people of my age the early days of Ferguson and the era of Ron Atkinson were a very distant memory. There is no doubt that he endured the worst of the transition after Sir Alex. Nowadays we are more conditioned to digest a certain level of mediocrity.
  21. Dec 6, 2018 at 15:45

    Bestietom Full Member

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    We are not going anywhere with Mourinho either. We need to rebuild with a manager who will just get down and do the job without blaming everyone but the tea lady.
  22. Dec 6, 2018 at 15:46

    GhastlyHun Full Member

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    Is she a mad dog though? Does she give 100% every time?
  23. Dec 6, 2018 at 16:03

    Ali Dia Full Member

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    This. Jose is a better manager than both but the atmosphere around the club is worse now than ever. Given what we’ve given the manager, the excuses and throwing players he signed under the bus and his refusal to drop certain players. Calling players out and then using them in imortant games as if to say look what I have tonwork with with. It’s always been all about Jose. Last night broke me as a fan. Just go man. Don’t get me wrong though. These players are winning nothing under any manager. No desire. No fight. No guts. I couldn’t care less who leaves with Jose. They can all slink off rich men and sell books on the back of their United hell having achieved nothing. They should be ashamed of themselves. The contracts we have given these players are a noose around our neck. well feck them and feck Woodward and the glazers too. We are a joke.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 16:10
  24. Dec 6, 2018 at 16:18

    Fredo Full Member

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    Managed to get the wages of the players LVG and Moyes Signed:

    http://www.tsmplug.com/richlist/manchester-united-players-salaries-list/
    https://www.nairaland.com/3106872/manchester-united-player-salaries-2015-16

    Luke Shaw 19 £80,000 (3 Years) 2018
    Matteo Darmian (New) 25 £80,000 (4 Years) 2019
    Daley Blind 24 £75,000 (4 Years) 2018
    Morgan Schneiderlin (New) 24 £100,000 (4 Year) 2019
    Bastian Schweinsteiger (New) 30 £200,000 (3 Year) 2018
    Ander Herrera 25 £75,000 (3 Years) 2018
    Angel Di María 26 £175,000 (4 Years) 2019
    Marouane Fellaini 27 £80,000 (3 Years) 2018
    Juan Mata 26 £140,000 (3 Years) 2018
    Memphis Depay (New) 20 £90,000 (4 Years ) 2019
    Rademal Falcao (new) 28 £280k 1 years (2015)


    Carrick was getting 80k/week, Falcao 280k/week and people here nag about Sanchez... we have been throwing money here and there like dumbfecks and still are the richest club, it is baffling, for such salaries we could have got way better players to be honest, we have been trying to clear the dead wood over the last 3 years, fans can't see that apparently.
  25. Dec 6, 2018 at 16:21

    Ali Dia Full Member

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    Inflation and a very very flawed recruitment strategy. I seriously doubt we ever looked at a players personality once since Fergie left. Bottlers, B list celebs and huge stars on the wane coming here because we are the only ones daft enough to pay is what we are now left with.
  26. Dec 6, 2018 at 16:27

    Rash Decision Full Member

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    I appreciated how he made many of the youngsters look pretty good. He was a good coach in certain ways. Would have been interested to see how far he could take the kids.

    I suppose it's a combination of remembering those rare games where Van Gaal's system worked really well and our current nightmarishly amorphous "system" that makes me wonder whether it would have worked if we had our current players.
  27. Dec 6, 2018 at 16:27

    PepsiCola Full Member

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    To be fair, the rare times we really clicked under LvG has been the best we've looked post Ferguson
  28. Dec 6, 2018 at 16:29

    Ali Dia Full Member

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    This. The rest of it was so so boring though. Nothing could have persuaded me we were going to turn into a dominant team (unless you meant meaningless possesion) LVG couldn’t coach an attack either and he was an idiot in interviews. We missed an absolute trick not getting Klopp.
  29. Dec 6, 2018 at 16:30

    Bestietom Full Member

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    Fred and Pereira need stilts if they want to play fro Mourinho.
  30. Dec 6, 2018 at 16:31

    PepsiCola Full Member

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    There was an overall "philosophy" atleast. You could see what he wanted to do.
  31. Dec 6, 2018 at 16:31

    Irwin99 Full Member

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    I don't look back at the LVG era with any fondness but i'm surprised people forget that we were a pretty good pressing team under him (especially in the big games). I'd like to see the running/sprints stats and compare them with this team. We were good at recovering the ball but just clueless when we had it.
  32. Dec 6, 2018 at 16:32

    Judas Open to offers

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    I think LVG could coach an attacking team, we just lacked the bit of quality in midfield and in the attacking areas to make his tactics work. At least we looked like a team with an idea then, even if it did literally put me to sleep on many occasions.
  33. Dec 6, 2018 at 16:34

    GaryLifo Nice Bloke

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    That away win at anfield I'll give you. Best United performance at that shit hole in a good long while.
  34. Dec 6, 2018 at 16:38

    PepsiCola Full Member

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    There was that run of some very good games in his first season, too.

    It was also great to watch Rashford break through. We performed well against the top 6 sides.
  35. Dec 6, 2018 at 16:39

    Ekeke Full Member

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    LVG was the one who put Rooney and Mata in as CMs.

    As we can see with City playing number 10s from a 3 man midfield, its not that it wasn't going to work but he didn't create the correct balance and team structure around doing it like Pep has.

    Obviously LVG didnt have the same kind of money that City and Mourinho have had. But the money he did spend wasnt spent very well and we looked incredibly blunt up front. I guess things havent changed there
  36. Dec 6, 2018 at 16:40

    Rash Decision Full Member

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    Wasn't he known as an attacking coach in his heyday? The sort of precursor to Guardiola. It's not the same case as Mourinho who's never ever been an attacking coach and in fact seems to take pride in not coaching attacking patterns.

    However LVG's United generally lacked dynamism as well so I'm not sure you can say he just needed a bit more quality in certain areas of the pitch.
  37. Dec 6, 2018 at 17:37

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    What evidence are you seeing to say Mourinho is turning it around? We have gradually got worse, 8th in league, lost to Derby in the League cup at home, drawn our last 3 games, haven’t beaten a top six side, negative goal difference, the manager has fallen out with any player that has quality which he bought, and longest he has stayed in a job is 3 years.

    So much evidence to suggest it will improve.
  38. Dec 6, 2018 at 17:43

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    I didn’t like him in the end but his record against the big sides was very good. His undoing was selling half our squad so in the second half of the season we were left so light with injuries. And generally didn’t buy very well.
  39. Dec 6, 2018 at 17:49

    Dwazza Coke is it!

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    :lol: ok. At least I'm no longer falling asleep during matches.
  40. Dec 6, 2018 at 17:56

    Denis79 Full Member

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    In terms of football we probably are the worst we've been since SAF retired. But I've been entertained by our football a few games this season. LvG almost made me hate the sport. Man how boring our games were with him in charge.