Are we a better team with Alexis?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by manunited1919, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. Feb 13, 2018

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

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    At the moment no we aren't a better team and that shouldn't happen when you add a world class player to your team. Sanchez should play as a wide forward in a 3-4-3 formation or 4-3-3. We should NOT use 4-2-3-1 because it doesn't suit any of our players. Both Sanchez and Martial are wide forwards who drift inside not wingers in the 4-2-3-1. There are 2 options:

    1) 3-4-3
    Bailly/Jones Lindelof Rojo
    Valencia Matic Pogba Shaw
    Lingard
    Sanchez Martial​

    We used this formation against Watford and Arsenal away and scored 7 goals so I'm not sure why we don't use it again. It provides a better balance for our attackers and Pogba has less defensive duties. You can also put Lukaku in Sanchez's place and put Sanchez behind and drop Lingard as well but I prefer the above team because it's more fluid on the counter.

    2) 4-3-3
    Valencia Bailly Jones Shaw
    Matic
    McTominay Pogba
    Sanchez Lukaku Martial
    This is also a great set up and if we can strengthen our midfield in the summer it's the only formation we should use going forward. At the moment we don't have the quality from the 3rd midfielder whether that's Herrera, Fellaini, Carrick but I feel for this season McTominay is the best option. He keeps it simple, recycles the ball, can put a tackle in as well and the whole point is that Pogba can have more freedom to create in the final third. Again Sanchez has a free role on the right but he can drift inside and link the play too. Martial stays on the left where he has been really well this season. My preference for this season is 3-4-3 but if we buy 2 midfielders in the summer I would use 4-3-3 going forward.
  2. Feb 13, 2018

    settembrini Full Member

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    You shouldn't be so dismissive of other people when they post things you disagree with.

    Here is a video of a recent Martial performance (Stoke) where he twice makes runs beyond defenders that Pogba finds at 0.55 and 3.32.



    He doesn't make these runs as often as I like but he does make them. You will not be able to find an equivalent example of Sanchez making a run beyond defenders for Pogba because they don't exist. Instead you will find instance after instance of Pogba picking up the ball in midfield and Sanchez standing right next to him for a short ball. It's a complete waste of Pogba's passing range and people are justified in pointing it out as an example of why shoehorning Sanchez into the team, despite him being an excellent player, has not improved us.
  3. Feb 13, 2018

    kiristao Full Member

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    Martial had a glorious chance 1 v 1 that he missed and then 2 very good chances from a corner that were blocked. Don't think his form has affected so much. He has not played much from the right so it will take a bit of time to adapt but a player of his ability should be able to do it.
    Pogba looked so off the pace. Had nothing to do with Sanchez or Martial. He was pulling out of tackles, not holding onto the ball like his, barely dribbled past a player. It was as if he was playing with a muscle injury and did not want to risk over extending himself.
    Lets be honest, if Sanchez had just put the ball in the open net as he should have, we would not have been having this discussion at all.
  4. Feb 13, 2018

    BigCaine Banned

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    Answer on basis of our 3 league games is a big no, but that is down to mourinho rather than sanchez. For most part of our season we have had a lopsided attack with martial/rashford on left performing well while our right not being good enough, with sanchez playing on the left has basically made the attack even more lopsided as neither martial nor rashford can play on the right half as well as mata does let alone play as well they themselves do on the left. Sanchez was really good for arsenal as a LW but he has shown with Udinese and Barca he is a good player as RW too and we need him as a RW rather than on left.

    Since Mourinho took over rarely has martial played on the right for us, he has always been our LW or on some occasions our ST but since sanchez coming in he has played RW and it is clear it is affecting him, the miss against Newcastle in first half for me is exactly the problem with playing martial as RW. His whole play is cut inside and try and score across the keeper on the far side or near side if the keeper is poorly positioned, on the right that is not possible as then most of his finishes then will either be on his weaker foot or he must try and beat the keeper on the near side neither of which really increases his or our chances for goals.

    With Pogba the situation is worse, i don't know if he is injured or sulking or just in bad form but the fact is pogba has started 2 games alongside sanchez and both were his most atrocious performances in utd shirt. Sanchez if you compare him to martial cuts inside lot earlier than martial normally would and sanchez has a tendency to play deeper than martial does in attack, which means he seems to playing in positions that normally would be taken up by pogba, thus cutting his influence in our final 3rd this combined with his inability to defend has really affected us.

    Sanchez is a good player but his coming in has hamstrung our 2 best players other than sanchez. If mourinho does not stop playing 4-2-3-1 and shifts to a tactic that will get martial and pogba performing alongside sanchez buying sanchez is basically 1 step forward 2 steps back.
  5. Feb 13, 2018

    ValenciaRocks New Member

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    It's hard to say given that clearly our form has dropped.

    Personally, I think sanchez should be in the center, the link between midfield and attack. Then you can have pace in Martial and Lingard on the wings to stretch the oppositions backline.

    I think Pogba needs to be dropped as clearly he looks frustrated at the moment. Give mctomminay a run, he looks hungry and confident.

    In short, I guess Sanchez is clearly an upgrade in terms of raw skill, however, we aren't getting the best out of him at all
  6. Feb 13, 2018

    Wilt New Member

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    Martial is an outright left winger and a very good one, it's where he's more comfortable and effective. Hope Jose keeps him there.

    Sanchez is genuinely world class and I feel could play just about anywhere and still be our most dangerous player.

    Are we better with Alexis? .....absolutely yes
  7. Feb 13, 2018

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Feck me. Two examples out of a 90 minute performance (one of which was offside) and you think that proves your point? Fecking ridiculous. Martial’s biggest weakness is his lack of movement. Especially making runs in behind. His preference to hold his run and wait for a pass to feet almost defines him as a player. The idea that Sanchez is much worse than him in this regard is the most stupid idea I’ve read on here all week. And that’s fighting off stiff competition.
  8. Feb 13, 2018

    settembrini Full Member

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    I know it proves my point. I said he does something, you dismissed it as being ridiculous, I showed examples of him doing it multiple times in a match, you had another temper tantrum. Nothing more needs to be said.
  9. Feb 13, 2018

    GM K Full Member

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    But isn't the sample size too small to draw these conclusions? It wasn't like we were tearing it up before Sanchez arrived. We had a terrible December and then a good January and then we are stuttering again in February. Martial attacked from the left against Huddersfield away? They all played in their natural positions against Chelsea away and against Liverpool away. Jones and Smalling were in their natural roles when they gave the match away to Spurs. When City beat us at home, Sanchez was not in the squad then. He didn't disrupt anything. So on what grounds are people drawing these conclusions? In our last two games, I noticed that Martial played the second half largely attacking from the left -especially in the Newcastle game. He did not exactly shine from there if you ask me. People say Pogba is better playing from the left in a midfield three. Fair enough but let's be honest, he has played in the 4-2-3-1 formation many times since Jose arrived and had some superb games there. How can formation explain away not making the most basic passes and simple on field decisions? Maybe the problem is that there is suddenly a new star in the team who is earning more? Yeah, just kidding but...who knows.

    I totally agree that Jose has to tweak his tactics but I do not buy the idea that tactics is the fundamental problem we have. We have some more basic issues and Jose has to find solutions to them.
  10. Feb 13, 2018

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    :lol: I’m perfectly calm. I found your initial post funny tbh. I get that people have issues with the manager. That’s fine. It does amuse me when they need to bend reality out of shape to fit their agenda, though. So fecking weird. And weird usually = amusing.
  11. Feb 13, 2018

    Stubble New Member

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    Has Alexis scored from the left? No. Was Martial scoring from the left? Yes. Can Martial play elsewhere? No. Can Alexis play elsewhere? Yes. It's not difficult is it!

    Unfortunately Martial has never been one of the manager's undroppable 'favourites' so he will continue to be the fall guy no doubt. Alexis is obviously a strong character and does not want to play on the right.. who knows what promises were made to him to get him to sign.. 'yeh sure you'll play on the left'
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2018
  12. Feb 13, 2018

    Treble Full Member

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    Martial's goals/assists to minutes ratio was top 3 in the league prior to Sanchez. About a goal/assist every 80 min which was almost sensational. He was a big reason why we won the first 3 league games in January. In his best season for Arsenal, Sanchez was contributing a goal/assist every 93 min while playing for a team that was scoring at a better rate than United this season.

    Not saying that Martial is as good as Sanchez. He isn't. But you seem to underrate Martial a little bit. Personally, I do not think that his movement is brilliant or that he could win Ballon d'Or. But he was doing very well this season. 3 times player of the month already in our best season after Fergie.
  13. Feb 13, 2018

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    I’m not under-rating Martial. He’s a young player with huge potential, who’s been having a generally decent season. With the sort of ups and downs you’d expect from a player his age. Sanchez is, obviously, a better player but Martial could - potentially - surpass him one day.

    The post you quoted was specifically taking issue with the idea that Martial much better than Sanchez at making runs behind the opposition defence. That’s basically taking arguably his biggest weakness and pretending the exact opposite is true. Genuinely bonkers stuff.
  14. Feb 13, 2018

    Ashish Negi New Member

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    United should switch formation to 4-3-3 or 3-5-2 to suit their best-attacking players i.e Martial, Sanchez and Pogba. Jose has history of playing his big signing and they were prefered over inform players. Lukaku was prefered even when he was out of form, same with Pogba, Zlatan last season as they were never subbed off even when they were bad.

    Now all of sudden Pogba started getting normal treatment and he has been subbed off twice which jose could have done earlier also but he preferred them because they were his big signing. But he has got new big signing now. This is hurting Pogba Confidence, also Mino Raiola being his agent there are chances that he might be fecking his mind for asking same money as Sanchez is getting at MUFC.

    Really feel bad for Martial. Last season his no 9 was taken away without informing him and now when he was having a season close to his debut season, all of sudden his position is taken away by a new signing.

    Personally with Rash, Martial, Andreas( can also play as a LM or LW) on left, i would have wanted United to get right winger instead of getting one more left sided player because in last 2 years we are playing makeshift right-winger inform of Mata, Jesse, Rashford. Hope Jose will figure out best position of his player before all imp UCL matches.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2018
  15. Feb 13, 2018

    NinjaFletch Full Member

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    I think this is a really important general point which is outright ignored when people talk about our attack. People talk as if we have world class attacking players and that Rashford and Martial are already the finished article. They're not and the level of expectations, not helped by the clubs failure to improve that area of the pitch before Alexis, are unfair. They've produced about what you would expect from them this season and the fact that that hasn't always been sparkling football or Premier League winning numbers seems to me to be about par for the course. I'm more surprised that people are surprised about our attack this season than I am by the gradual improvement we've seen from them since last season.

    Maybe another manager would be able to get more out of them, I don't know, but I really do think people like to drastically overstate how good our players are when they wish to express their disdain with the manger.
  16. Feb 13, 2018

    Epicurean Banned

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    It must be hard for Sanchez. Leaving Arsenal to win games again, only to lose them at United too. :)
  17. Feb 13, 2018

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    It takes time to take Arsenal out of him.
  18. Feb 13, 2018

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Completely agree. That’s why I think Sanchez is such a good signing. Looking at the age profile of our attacking players you’re seeing what you’d expect. We were crying out for a footballer who is at the peak of his powers. It’s a pity that Mikhi lacked the bollocks to step up and lead our young attack by example but Sanchez is a perfect replacement. It’s just a pity that his arrival coincided with Pogba’s mini-collapse after being shown up against Spurs and the woefully pedestrian passing out of central defence.

    Still early days, of course. He’ll prove his value soon enough.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  19. Feb 13, 2018

    Moonwalker Full Member

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    I suppose there are cases of players slotting in seamlessly into a well oiled machine, but Sanchez just isn't one of those cases. We aren't a better team with him right now, we most certainly will be once he adjusts to the team and the team adjusts to him. Things are as simple and straightforward as that.

    Competitively, you couldn't have picked a better set of circumstances to bed in a January signing than what we have right now. We aren't winning the league, and we are nailed on for top four even with a bit of a falter.
  20. Feb 13, 2018

    hn4manunited Full Member

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    Anytime you're slotting in a player that demands the ball, you'll have some settling to do. It's like all of a sudden, the players are wondering what he's gonna do when the ball gets passed to him whenever he asks for it.

    I don't think we're nailed on for top four. We definitely have a good chance but I agree with you that adding a player like Alexis (a swap out of Mkhi at that) is a no brainer to strengthen for next year plus getting his services for the rest of the year. I personally can't wait for Zlatan to come back and have an impact for late in the season push. It's a shame that his recovery hasn't gone as well as some of us had hoped.
  21. Feb 13, 2018

    Epicurean Banned

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    Blaming the best player on the pitch to have Arsenal in him. :lol::lol:
  22. Feb 13, 2018

    TRossManUtd8 New Member

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    a 4-3-1-2 formation is what Id be curios to see...

    Martial at LS
    Lukaku at RS
    Sanchez in the hole
    Pogba at LCM
    Matic at CDM
    Herrera at RCM

    Shaw/Young and valencia to give us width
  23. Feb 13, 2018

    lex talionis Full Member

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    The solution is staring right at us: Martial on the left and Sanchez on the right.
  24. Feb 13, 2018

    Nikelesh Reddy Full Member

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    Seems ideal,but unfortunately Alexis doesn't want to play on the right.He apparently made it clear to Wenger and in his first interview after joining us,he tellingly said that"I like to play on the left and centrally"...He wants to cut in from the left and we should frankly play him where he wants to play....
  25. Feb 13, 2018

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    :houllier: Aware of sarcasm?
  26. Feb 13, 2018

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

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    Is this thread serious?
  27. Feb 13, 2018

    whatwha Sniffs Erricksson’s diarrhea

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    In that case, if we made promises to Sanchez to give him the LW spot just to convince him to sign, as if the 500k per week wasn't enough, I might question the wisdom of signing him. LW was not the spot we needed to improve. Martial was doing perfectly fine there. If we can't use Sanchez on the right, then we are still screaming out for a right winger and we're basically in the same spot as a team like before. Not saying he isn't a great player, before 5 people accuse me of that... Signing someone of his quality is something you can't really pass on - but to the question of whether he improves the team - if he will only play on the left, then that will be up for debate...
  28. Feb 13, 2018

    Morpheus 7 Full Member

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    It's about Jose bringing proper balance to that team now, not Sanchez. We haven't played well as a team since Arsenal, Everton were rubbish before anybody says anything. We need to play 3 cm with Pogba on the left, matic holding and either Herrera or Carrick alongside him. Then Martial on the left(never on the right), let him battle it out with Rashford for the rest of the season. Sanchez on the right, with Mata and Jesse being subs. Scott shouldn't be played unless it's poor opposition at old Trafford, rotation for key players. Shaw comes in for Young and Jones partners Bailly or Rojo. Smalling should be behind lindelof now, shouldn't be near that side. It's crunch time and we need a settled formation and first 11. Jose needs to stop shoehorning in attacking players, we have no shape or discipline. Need to go back to basics now, make sure we have a strong finish to the season.
  29. Feb 13, 2018

    Greck Full Member

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    A lot of people are projecting personal emotions into this. Pogba and Martial being envious of the new kid would be ridiculous.

    Regardless we've had our team chemistry (temporarily) shaken up by bringing a new player into the one position that produced the majority of our attacking threat. It's not quite as easy as saying 'if martial/Rashford could get lukaku 10 goals, then Sanchez being double the player will get him 20'.

    Sanchez won't be cutting in looking to find Lukaku camped on the far post, he cuts in to find slick link up and one touch passing. Can't tell the future but it's a reason I'm uncertain he'll ever have a smooth partnership with Lukaku.

    I think in a few months we'll end up with another conundrum where Sanchez plays better with another striker and Lukaku plays better with a different winger.
  30. Feb 13, 2018

    lex talionis Full Member

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    Perhaps someone can make Alexis watch videos of himself tearing opponents up on the right side.
  31. Feb 14, 2018

    Amadaeus Ooh, rock me!

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    I don’t see why Sanchez and Martial can’t alternate position in cam/ss and lam/lw. None of them looks good or wants to play on the right. Push lingard or Mata on the right.
  32. Feb 14, 2018

    Billy Blaggs No mates but his cousins love him

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    Well Sanchez has been here for 4 games so hardly damming there's no footage of Sanchez not making those runs for Pogba.
  33. Feb 14, 2018

    OldTrevil Full Member

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    Not that I didn't enjoy martial on the left, but the kid clearly looks to just love football and he has actually played well on the right despite the drop in individual stats from his lofty standards. I don't pigeon hole him in a left forward position. We've seen him deliver motm and high level performances as a strike partner and leading 9 to completely nullify the idea. There's no big reason to doubt he will continue to perform in any of the attacking positions. Give alexis time to gel with the team. One has to hope he wont destroy the dynamic that was building but a mere readjustment with him as a leader, an opportunity for him to develop into a mentor role too, but we have enough quality in the team to win any of the cups at the end of season and challenge for everything next season with a couple of additions in midfield and full back, rb mostly right now
  34. Feb 14, 2018

    Houdini New Member

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    Short answer is yes. But the balance of the team is well off. Martial's best position is clearly the LW. Sanchez is best at LW too but his second best is behind the striker. He can also play RW but its not his best. I would play Martial LW, Sanchez behind striker and Mata - RW. Another option is Martial LW, Sanchez RW and Lingard behind the striker.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2018
  35. Feb 14, 2018

    Nikelesh Reddy Full Member

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    I can see where your coming from,but I wouldn't say that we didn't need to sign him if he wanted to play on the left.We desperately needed a world class goal scoring wide player,who was capable of scoring 20 plus goals on his own.Sanchez is a huge upgrade on both Martial and Rashford,so even if he made it clear to Jose that he wanted to play on the left,I think that it was definitely worth signing him.Mata,Lingard and Martial will have to play better on the right.....
  36. Feb 14, 2018

    Sarni nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.

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    Over who? Lukaku is literally our only striker.
  37. Feb 14, 2018

    Nikelesh Reddy Full Member

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    He's quite clearly outgrown that phase.He played on the right initially for Udinese because he wasn't strong enough physically to play in a central position,but once he put on some muscle and got stronger physically,he started playing centrally for them.He played on the right for Barca because that was the only slot available,but as soon as he came to England he made it clear that he didnt want to play on the right....
    And there's a good reason as well,it's easier for him to score goals and be the main man when he's cutting in from the left.But it's really hard for a right footed attacking player to consistently score from the right,if he plays on the right he will have to become a provider or a creator for Lukaku.He clearly doesn't want to do that,he wants to be the main man at this stage of his career.So nope,he definitely won't play on the right....
  38. Feb 14, 2018

    Inigo Montoya Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

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    We have great individuals but haven’t moulded them into a great team yet.
  39. Feb 14, 2018

    whatwha Sniffs Erricksson’s diarrhea

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    Martial was contributing a goal/assist once every 90 minutes or so. You can't improve much on that.
  40. Feb 14, 2018

    Nikelesh Reddy Full Member

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    Because Alexis doesn't want to play on the right.He wants to be the main man,and it's easier to be the main man and score goals when your cutting in from the left.If he plays on the right he won't score half as many goals...He"ll have to be more of a creator for the centre forward and he doesn't want to do that.He wants to play on the left or through the middle,basically he only wants to occupy those areas of the pitch where he can score loads of goals...