Are we a dirty team?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Pogue Mahone, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. Mar 15, 2017
    #1

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    So far this season we've committed the second highest number of fouls/game in the Premier League. Watford top the table. Spurs are 5th. Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and City are occupying four of the bottom six places.

    In 2015/16 we topped the table of thuggery. More fouls/game than any other team in the league. The season before that we were in 5th place. Interestingly, Mourinho's Chelsea were second from bottom in that season.

    You have to go all the way back to 2013/14 to find a United team that's outside the top 10 (14th place) and the previous season was the most recent time we occupied the moral highground of the bottom five (6th from bottom in 2011/12, 3rd from bottom in 2010/11).

    What's going on? Are Manchester United the new Stoke? Discuss.

    Stats from here.
  2. Mar 15, 2017
    #2

    coolredwine lameredboots

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    We have had the likes of Fellaini, Rojo, Jones, Herrera with a lot more game time, so...
  3. Mar 15, 2017
    #3

    King.of.Red New Member

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    do stats also tell us how bad the fouls made by our players? like breaking oppenent legs, punching opponent face, etc.. for me, fouling other players many times doesnt mean dirty. playing dirty means you have intention to injure/hurt your opponents.
  4. Mar 15, 2017
    #4

    izec Full Member

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    Dont think so. Our 'fouls' get more penalized, while other teams get away with it. Plus some players are massive outliers.
  5. Mar 15, 2017
    #5

    El Zoido Full Member

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    I think we are. Fellaini, Rojo and Herrera are among the dirtiest players in the league. Most of it's on them.
  6. Mar 15, 2017
    #5

    MyOnlySolskjaer Half Member

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    Yep.
  7. Mar 15, 2017
    #6

    LFC-Fans New Member

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    The new Stoke so to speak.
    Except better of course.
  8. Mar 15, 2017
    #7

    Red Katie Full Member

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    Herrera has a lot on his plate here.
  9. Mar 15, 2017
    #8

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera

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    Thanks for that.:lol:
  10. Mar 15, 2017
    #9

    Von Mistelroum Full Member

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    I think, Rojo aside, we're not dirty, but we tend to panic and struggle against a lot of teams, and the likes of Fellaini etc aren't good enough, so end up missing tackles a lot.
  11. Mar 15, 2017
    #10

    Kostur Full Member

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    Think at their best under Pulis's Stoke roamed around 6th too, so yeah, looks like it :(
  12. Mar 15, 2017
    #11

    RedDevil-85 New Member

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    Dont think we are a dirty team but we have some dirty players.
    Herrera,Rojo and Fellaini comes to mind.
  13. Mar 15, 2017
    #12

    The United Full Member

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    I don't mind us being a bit dirty.

    But new stoke? Well, I will have to see how we do in high/long ball stats I think.

    Does this stoke even play long balls that much anymore?
  14. Mar 15, 2017
    #13

    RedMaestro Full Member

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    In my opinion - no. Only "dirty" things I can recall is occasional things from Rojo, Fellaini and Ibra and they have a physical style of play so it's actually quite normal that they foul. Think Pogba has a lot of fouls, or do I remember wrong? But I can't remember him doing anything "nasty".
  15. Mar 15, 2017
    #14

    GM K Full Member

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    Wow!

    I have to admit that I'm surprised by those stats.
  16. Mar 15, 2017
    #15

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Some interesting misperceptions here.

    Pogba and Ibra commit the most fouls for us, by a margin. The 3rd and 4th most in the league, respectively.

    Hererra is down in 20th place. Next United player on the list is Valencia in 52nd place. Jones and Rojo don't even make the top 100.
  17. Mar 15, 2017
    #16

    Kostur Full Member

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    Digged a bit deeper into Pogue's stats, and our most fouling players are: Pogba with 54, Zlatan with 50, Herera with 37, Valencia with 29, Fellaini with 23. Rojo's next with 17.

    Edit: ffs feck off Pogue.
  18. Mar 15, 2017
    #17

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera

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    Just shows you that , as you say, people always presume it is midfielders and defenders who make the most fouls.
  19. Mar 15, 2017
    #18

    Red Katie Full Member

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    Well I'll be damned then. Perhaps I notice Herrera more because he often claims his innocence when fouling.
  20. Mar 15, 2017
    #19

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    In 2015/16 - when we made more fouls per game than any other team in the league - Chris Smalling made the most fouls of any United player.

    I guarantee nobody can guess the next United player on that list!

    Mind you, it gives a fascinating insight into the difference between said player's form/effort this season and last... (big clue, right there)
  21. Mar 15, 2017
    #20

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera

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    Not entirely suprised at the Ibra stat as the type of player he is and the way refs are, he is more likely than not going to get blown up for a foul when he goes up for a ball.
  22. Mar 15, 2017
    #21

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

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    You must be joking. If it was United being compared to, say, Chelsea and Liverpool in isolation and it turns out we committed many more fouls than them, you can pull out the old unprovable "we're just harshly treated". When it's compared against the other 19 teams in the league, and we're ahead of 18 of them, that argument falls apart very quickly! As if the entire rest of the league get away with easy treatment. Especially given what Herrera gets away with!

    I think we're a cynical team with a few dirty players (Ibrahimovic, Fellaini and Rojo). We make lots of niggly fouls to break up the play.
  23. Mar 15, 2017
    #22

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera

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    Mata?
  24. Mar 15, 2017
    #23

    Kostur Full Member

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    Yeah that's the first thing that came to my mind, that goal against Boro I think, when he scored the goal yet for some idiotic reason the ref called a foul on Valdes.
  25. Mar 15, 2017
    #24

    MadMike Full Member

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    Pogba and Ibra have more minutes than anyone else though.

    Anyhow, I like us a little dirty :devil:
  26. Mar 15, 2017
    #25

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera

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    You can't blame Jose for those figures. It's good old LvG the tiger 2015/16 stats I mean.
  27. Mar 15, 2017
    #26

    Red Katie Full Member

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    Martial?
  28. Mar 15, 2017
    #27

    The United Full Member

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    About Ibra, he is a dirty player. So I don't see much of point in defending him without looking like a fool.

    Not that I mind. The way we play right now, we need exactly that kind of player up front.
  29. Mar 15, 2017
    #28

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Any thoughts on Jose's Chelsea team being second from bottom in his last full season in charge, while United were 5th from top (taking top place the following season)?
  30. Mar 15, 2017
    #29

    Dobbs Full Member

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    No not dirty.I take the stats as a compliment. We should be making more tackles than most. I'm sure there's plenty of supporters around during the country who wish their team was better off the ball.

    The only reason this has a negative association is this ongoing frenzy that wants to drive tackling/physicality out of the game. Mostly media led but then swallowed whole by some fans.
  31. Mar 15, 2017
    #30

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

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    LvG definitely encouraged our defenders to make a lot of fouls high up the pitch and that's continued on with Mourinho. Other than that I think it's down to the players. Ibrahimovic, Pogba, Fellaini and Herrera are just bad tacklers. Maybe Mourinho's encouraged it a bit more from Herrera but if anything I think he's made less bad tackles this season but lots more niggly fouls.
  32. Mar 15, 2017
    #31

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Boom! Hell of a guess. Kudos. I would never have put him on this list.
  33. Mar 15, 2017
    #32

    GazTheLegend Full Member

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    Yes. And I like it. We're not nasty but our fouls are clever and I'm ok with that.
  34. Mar 15, 2017
    #33

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's

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    Filthy.
  35. Mar 15, 2017
    #34

    Philadelphian Banned

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    Must be Blind?
  36. Mar 15, 2017
    #35

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    @Red Katie has already won the Kenwood juicer. Sorry.
  37. Mar 15, 2017
    #36

    MannyB Grammar Police

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    I'd be interested in seeing where they rank in terms of being fouled.

    Pogba and Ibra, like Fellaini, lose a lot of 50/50's because they are not the ones being muscled of the ball.
  38. Mar 15, 2017
    #37

    harms Full Member

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    Fellaini is just stupid and commits lots of fouls because he's usually late or completely uncoordinated.
    Rojo is very rush and has a vile streak about him, same with Herrera. Bailly and TFM are often overenthusiastic but I don't think that they mean harm. Ibra always goes in 100%, as he knows that the chances are he'll be less hurt in a duel than his opponent (because he is made of fecking rock), but I don't think that he regularly is dirty.

    So overall 3 dirty players, a couple of disorganized youngsters and all-in players like Ibra or Valencia - could've been better, but it's not that bad.
  39. Mar 15, 2017
    #38

    coolredwine lameredboots

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    I'm honestly shocked.
  40. Mar 15, 2017
    #39

    izec Full Member

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    Thats not a joke. I think we got a harsh treatment this season. We are Manchester United and the referees are biased. We are not Bournemouth.
  41. Mar 15, 2017
    #40

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Feck it. I've made a mistake. Schneiderlin committed the second highest number of fouls for United in 2015/16. Martial was 3rd. Morgan wasn't showing up as a United player, which confused me.