Are we a team in decline?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Walrus, May 2, 2012.

  1. May 2, 2012
    #1

    Walrus Oppressed White Male

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    Let's get this straight - we are not going to finish mid table next year, we still may win the league THIS year and fergie is still a great manager.

    But the club as a whole.... It would be fair to say that for whatever reason, justly or unjustly, the Spanish giants are ahead of us in the global football scale currently. And whilst City do not yet have the global appeal or infrastructure to match us, you could look at our squad and theirs and the unbiased observer would probably say theirs is ahead.

    Again, this thread isn't about whether it's fair or not, and who has deserved anything, and it's a fair comment that we have still enjoyed success over the last few years, but in terms of our attractiveness to potential signings and in terms of the quality of football we play, standards are slipping a bit.
    Traditionally we have been a club who created stars rather than buying them, but we were never afraid to splash the cash to supplement the team when needed. Nowadays, whether it's because we can't or simply don't, we seem to be making do, we haven't had many great youth players coming through the ranks other than those be buy, we are reliant on players (and a manager) who are going to be retiring sooner rather than later and questions are being asked of our financial competitiveness as well.


    What I'm trying to get at here is that in 5 years time, where do you see us? Still near the top of the food chain competing for the league and in Europe every year? Or more of a 4th place team?
  2. May 2, 2012
    #2

    kps88 Full Member

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    Teams in decline are teams that rely heavily on players above 30. We're the opposite of a team in decline. We're a team in transition. A team for the future. We have some cracking young players that will no doubt become full internationals in a few years time. We're a few signings away (midfield, left back) from being a near perfect team again. Future's bright, my friend.
  3. May 2, 2012
    #3

    Colin129 Death or the gladioli!

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    Oh stop it!
  4. May 2, 2012
    #4

    ehsanul Bestower of favours

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    Our general play has been abysmal to say the least,bar few games.Our squad a a whole generally lacks exceptional players,and i guess Fergie has done a miracle to still compete for the league even with the average quality of players he has in his disposal.
  5. May 2, 2012
    #5

    RK Full Member

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    In 03-04, when we finished third in the league 15 points behind Arsenal, where did you see us in 4 or 5 years time?
  6. May 2, 2012
    #6

    Judge Red Don't Call Me Douglas

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    If you take our squad and stick a couple of world class central midfielders in the mix, I think we're fine for the foreseeable future. Still waiting for those midfielders, Fergie!
  7. May 2, 2012
    #7

    Raoul Administrator

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    No we're not. We're in transition at a time when the opposition are getting much better. That's to be expected from time to time.
  8. May 2, 2012
    #8

    Ekeke Full Member

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    In 5 years time the team will be completely different. So how can we possibly know? We are certainly a team in transition especially in defence and in goal this season.
  9. May 2, 2012
    #9

    712 Formerly '711' but that was a ridiculous username!

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    So that means we could never decline in future then? That's good to know.
  10. May 2, 2012
    #10

    Walrus Oppressed White Male

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    I agree there are a lot of exciting young players coming through its true. I guess rather than simply the strength of the playing squad it's more a case of our general stature and how we compare with the other european elite clubs. Fair enough we can't match them financially but as a result, will we still be on a par with them when giggs/Scholes/fergie retire?

    And when Fergie does retire, will that have an effect on some of these young players wanting to stay with us? More than once a signing has come out and expressed their delight at being able to play under SAF.... Take him away and will their loyalty then be less dependable?
  11. May 2, 2012
    #11

    DomesticTadpole Full Member

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    Every year people say there are great players coming through, which is fine if they get into the first team, I like Will Keane, but Rooney is still young as is Danny and Chicharito. If we sign another striker, as Fergie say Keane could go out on loan. When will he get his chance. A lot of these talented kids get fed up of waiting and move on.
  12. May 2, 2012
    #12

    Scrumpet There are no words

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    As a team I think we are only going to get better over the next few years as young players improve and we add some new signings to the squad. The only thing to worry about is Giggs and Scholes retiring. We've relied on the ginger prawn a lot since his return but hopefully we'll be better prepared the next time he decides tohang up his boots.

    With regards to whether we are in decline relative to others in the league, well City are most likely going to keep spending and improving, and Chelsea will be challenging for the title again if their transition is handled properly, although that's easier said than done. Outside of those two, I can't see anyone else improving enough to mount a serious title challenge over the next few years, so I doubt we'll find ourselves merely battling for fourth come the end of any season in the near future, we'll be in the title race. Actually when does Arsenal's ten year plan come to an end? We'll be fecked then.
  13. May 2, 2012
    #13

    Gazza Magic Carpet Pilot

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    It's almost like 2005 never happened.

    It's almost like people didn't listen to Fergie when he talked last season, when Rooney was threatening to leave. About how unrealistic it is to expect 3/4+ years of dominance. About how people couldn't identify the potential he saw in the squad when it looked like Chelsea were gonna leave us in the dust.

    Football is a continuous flow of events - we'll be on the crest of the wave again in no time.
  14. May 2, 2012
    #14

    Varun Wants the D...

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    OP,

    We're the opposite of a team in decline. A team in decline is what Chelsea are, lots of old players with no imminent replacements. we're the opposite, young players all over the pitch who'l get better with age and experience.

    Yeah right.
  15. May 2, 2012
    #15

    KingEric7 Conspiracy enthusiast

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    For feck's sake.
  16. May 2, 2012
    #16

    TheReligion Abusive

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    Not sure how we can be in decline with young players such as De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Evans, Rafael, Cleverley and Welbeck, the majority of which are establishing themselves as first team regulars in a side which has racked up one of the highest point totals the PL has ever seen?
  17. May 2, 2012
    #17

    Cheesy Full Member

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    No, we're a team in transition as others have said.

    A team in decline wouldn't have arguably improved from the year before, and wouldn't have a very promising crop of young players like we have.

    A lot of their best players would also be older. Look at us. You can only say that we have a few influential players who are quite old, and our very best players as far as talent is concerned: Rooney and Nani aren't 'old' at all and are still relatively young.
  18. May 2, 2012
    #18

    DomesticTadpole Full Member

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    He is going a bit over the top but the depth of our squad hasn't been great. We haven't had the quality to come in when we have had injuries or players need a rest. It is either that or the manager had made some tactical howlers for us to go out of most competitions so early. Which one would you rather it was?
  19. May 2, 2012
    #19

    Bebe Full Member

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    We're in decline relative to the last 5 years imo, but in 5 years time I think we'll be back near the top. Lots of promising youngsters, if even a few of them make it we should be fine.

    ---------------------------De Gea-----------------------------

    Rafael-------Smalling------------Jones/Evans------Fabio/signing?

    -------------------Cleverley---------Anderson/signing/Pogba?*-----------

    Valencia------------------Rooney------------------------Nani-----

    -------------------Hernandez/Welbeck/Macheda-----------------

    That could be our first XI in 5 years, which today on current ability would still be a decent match for most teams. Given that DDG Smalling Jones Rafael Fabio Cleverley Pogba Hernandez Welbeck Macheda will all improve still, I don't see a long term decline for us.

    *I don't think either Pogba or Anderson will be here in 5 years time.
  20. May 2, 2012
    #20

    KingEric7 Conspiracy enthusiast

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    The depth of the squad is brilliant with the exception of central midfield, where we've still got lots of players, just not enough brilliant ones. The fact that we have been anywhere near winning the title this year is testament to the strength of the squad as a whole. I think Real Madrid are probably the only other team on the planet that could've coped with the injuries we've had whilst still sustaining any sort of title challenge.

    "the average quality of players he has in his disposal"

    That's just not true at all.
  21. May 2, 2012
    #21

    DomesticTadpole Full Member

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    Not sure Anderson will be here in a years time to be honest. Just wish Pogba will make his bloody mind up.
  22. May 2, 2012
    #22

    Man-United Full Member

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    It it wasn't for the city spending, we would have had a 17 point lead.
  23. May 2, 2012
    #23

    Varun Wants the D...

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    On the contrary, i believe our squad is right up there with any team in the league, its just our starting 11 that needs to be improved in certain areas, CM being it.

    No team, not even City could have coped with the amount of injuries we've had this season. Take out Kompany from that lineup and they look mediocre in defence. add to that the number of injuries we've had at CM and do the same at City and they'd be found wanting too. Its no surprise they started dropping points when Silva looked jaded.

    SAF has fecked up on occasions this season but that alone isnt to be blamed either. This season was always going to be tough with the number of changes coming through and us losing key players.
  24. May 2, 2012
    #24

    DomesticTadpole Full Member

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    Why did we go out of CL so early?
  25. May 2, 2012
    #25

    The Neviller Banned

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    For feck sake, seriously?
  26. May 2, 2012
    #26

    DomesticTadpole Full Member

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    Who me or KingEric? I was asking a serious question. Was it complacency on our part or players not good enough. I honestly thought it was complacency, not on managers part, but the players.
  27. May 2, 2012
    #27

    TheReligion Abusive

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    So did City for the record... these things happen and our CM has been a problem again. Had Paul Scholes been around for all of the group games I am pretty sure we would have been better off.
  28. May 2, 2012
    #28

    DomesticTadpole Full Member

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    Fair enough.
  29. May 2, 2012
    #29

    TheReligion Abusive

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    Just my opinion of course.

    Just like in the PL though we have messed up when it has mattered at Old Trafford. Just doesn't seem quite that fortress anymore?
  30. May 2, 2012
    #30

    Bross Noggie Pez Dispenser

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    Our period of decline is already over. Up up and away.
  31. May 2, 2012
    #31

    Varun Wants the D...

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    The CL exit?

    It was a case of our inexperience showing which is to be expected given the age of our backline and GK. We made too many errors and were too gung ho in our approach at times. It was also down to Sir Alex gambling a bit with teams that he put out but then given the standard of teams we were facing, we should have beaten them nonetheless. he does it every year though to be fair.

    I dont think lack of quality can be blamed at all for exiting at the group stages specially considering the group we were handed.
  32. May 2, 2012
    #32

    Drainy Full Member

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    how can people be questioning the depth of our squad? We're joint top of the league when we've played the season without Vidic, Fletcher, Anderson and Cleverley for almost all of it; and then plenty of other players have been in and out with injury. If City had our injuries this season we'd already be champions. (Look what happened to their form when Kompany was suspended)
  33. May 2, 2012
    #33

    DomesticTadpole Full Member

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    I agree with the gung ho bit, which in a way was the problem with the Everton game as well. We need a leader on the pitch to organise them and make them understand that closing down the game if OK in certain circumstances.
  34. May 2, 2012
    #34

    The Neviller Banned

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    The thread in general DT.

    Team in decline? feck off, we hear this same shit every time United have a slightly less than perfect spell. We've won 4 out of the last 5 titles, the other we finished a close second in, and if we don't win this one we'll be a close second again.

    Team in decline, my arse.
  35. May 2, 2012
    #35

    Nick 0208 Ldn News 24

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    Some things can be legislated for.

    The severity of Fletcher's illness, Park's seeming decline, Anderson being mainly absent, players who would in prior seasons have performed fairly similar tasks for the team not there to call upon.

    Vidic's injury has not only been damaging directly through the lack of his mere presence, but indirectly when we consider the development of players like Smalling and Jones.

    Not all of our remedies require reaching into our pocket thankfully. For example both De Gea and probably Cleverly in kind shall benefit from a strict physical regimen over the summer. In addition Rafael could be dropped on his head [he might wake up fully].

    The galling thing is our main opponents right now although this mustn't distort where United finds itself presently. 12/13 is unlikely to have the same confluence of conundrums and calamities.
  36. May 2, 2012
    #36

    TheReligion Abusive

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    Good post
  37. May 2, 2012
    #37

    Badunk Full Member

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    We're all doooooooooomed!
  38. May 2, 2012
    #38

    JustAFan Red Yankee

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    Let's see we just had a 4 or 5 year run that was one of the best the club has ever had, we have one season like this one and we are in decline. Well certainly only time will tell what the future holds, but for me I am going to give it a couple of more years before I pass judgement.
  39. May 2, 2012
    #39

    DomesticTadpole Full Member

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    I don't think we are in decline. I think for some reason our transfer policy has changed slightly. We are signing young players who will take time to develop, if they do. Meanwhile other money bag clubs are signing the finished articles. If they develop how they should we will be fine. It is a risk.
  40. May 2, 2012
    #40

    The Neviller Banned

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    It's how we've always done things. What were Rooney and Ronaldo if not young players with potential who would take time to develop?

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