Are we imagining problems?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Andycoleno9, Feb 15, 2018.

  1. Feb 15, 2018
    #1

    Andycoleno9 Full Member

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    I look at our threads and also news in press about united and there is always dozens of "problems". Jose, shaw, pogba, tactics, sanchez, martial...
    Maybe i am wrong but i don't see that in other clubs and other clubs forums. With us everything is gloom. On our first page most of threads are some depression. 4,5 threads about how our best player is bad, another 5 how our coach is shit, couple of threads about bad defence, etc..
    In media the same thing. By that stories i have a feeling that we are in a total mess.
    On the other hand, people would think that liverpool and tottenham are winning trophies for years. Everything is perfect there.
    Am i imagining all that? Or we really have that much problems? Or we( united fans) are just pessimistic people with life motto "glass is always half empty".
  2. Feb 15, 2018
    #2

    Mciahel Goodman Worst Werewolf Player of All Times Staff

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    Football is more of a soap opera these days. The game has become almost incidental in recent years. What sells isn't the sport, it's the hollow nonsense and vapid debates (contrived controversies) that surround it. Game ends, discussion begins, continues to next game, repeat.

    Continuing cycle that moves further and further away from what football is: people kicking a ball about on a pitch for 90 mins.
  3. Feb 15, 2018
    #3

    Valar Morghulis Full Member

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    If we're going to get into people's imaginations getting ahead of themselves I'd like to be the first in this thread to point to John Lennon. Nonsenical!

    We'll be back at the top of the mountain in the next 2 years. We just need to sack Jose and invest another 400 million over the next 2 summer windows I reckon.
  4. Feb 15, 2018
    #4

    diplomat Banned

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    We've generally had a bad form since the City defeat, alongside with some really turgid football. What is worse now is that we are yet again in another battle for top 4, despite being 1st or 2nd for the whole season and we have a very tough schedule ahead of us.

    So no, nobody is imagining things, although different posters have different opinions how the team should be structured or should play, so obviously there are different problems and solutions provided by the many fans on the Caf.
  5. Feb 15, 2018
    #5

    LoneStar Full Member

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    I think we always tend to over analyse and underestimate our players, and do the opposite with the other clubs and their players. That’s natural with every fan I guess.

    The media always loves talking about United, mostly bad and click bait articles, since we generate a ton of clicks for them. But some of the blame has to fall on Jose and the players as well. The performances recently have been dire to say the least.
  6. Feb 15, 2018
    #6

    Ish Lights on for Luke

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    I think a lot of our fans, myself included, have known nothing but decades of success under SAF.

    Now factor in those expectations, with the money we’ve spent, we are most probably “on average” much less satisfied as a fan group, versus other sides, with anything other than winning. Call it spoilt or whatever, it’s probably a contributing factor.
  7. Feb 15, 2018
    #7

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Liverpool and Spurs are running us pretty damn close (and looking a lot better than us in big games) despite spending a lot less money than us, so you can see why they’re perceived as having less problems. Plus they have a bunch of players in the running for being the best in the league this season. When all we’ve got is big Dave. Yet again.

    The mood shifts quickly in football, though. If we win our next 3 games (and I firmly believe we can) then everything will be hunky dory again.

    Also, you should check out some Arsenal forums. That will make you feel a lot better about our “problems”.
  8. Feb 15, 2018
    #8

    Smores Full Member

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    We moaned when we were on top, of course there's going to be moaning when we're not.

    There's a lot to be positive about but people dislike Jose too much for that right now. They'll go away when we win a few again.
  9. Feb 15, 2018
    #9

    JohnLocke Full Member

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    There are problems, if they're down to form or something else will left to be seen. But we're second in the league and have been all season, have scored a fair amount of goals throughout the team and conceded few as well.

    I think the fact that no one is standout for us or has been consistently playing at a high level all season is causing some to think everything is awful. Someone is good for a couple of weeks and then they are terrible and in the end everyone is getting slated one way or another.

    In saying that, the Spurs and Newcastle games made me want to smash my TV.
  10. Feb 15, 2018
    #10

    noodlehair "It's like..."

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    There's a section of people on here who are out to get Mourinho, which doesn't really help. Anything that is a positive, or a criticism of something other than Mourinho, is seen as a defence of Mourinho. So we have to have at least 10 threads at any one time having a go at Mourinho, just to make sure all of us are aware of how bad a job some people think he is doing.

    Now for some reason we also have about 5 different threads about Pogba, which are also filled mostly with people who are annoyed that something other than how bad Mourinho is, is being discussed. So we also have to have some threads specifically about whether Mourinho is to blame for Paul Pogba.

    We also have to have a thread about how people aren't criticising Mourinho enough or are making up excuses to not criticise him enough.

    We also haven't really played convincingly well since back nearer the start of the season, so people are searching for reasons why. There haven't been very many games in the last few months where you can say "yeah, that was an excellent performance", or "we're fantastic" which is why there aren't many people saying it.
  11. Feb 15, 2018
    #11

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    :lol: funny cos it’s true...

    (Last paragraph is also true but not funny at all :()
  12. Feb 15, 2018
    #12

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    This forum is only full of negativity due to the sudden influx of new posters with less than 1000 posts to their name, get rid of them and this place wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as it is

    And yes Ive heard the lack of posts doesn't equal lack of knowledge argument but I'm afraid it does :angel:
  13. Feb 15, 2018
    #13

    acnumber9 Full Member

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    This is a slight issue I have with some of the rating of how we’re doing. People talk about the great players Spurs in particular have and how great the manager is. They talk about how average much of our squad is and how bad our manager is. For Utd to have sat above Spurs all season with those facts doesn’t make any sense. If people think our players aren’t as good as our rivals then they have to except that the manager has done well to have more points than all but City.
  14. Feb 15, 2018
    #14

    acnumber9 Full Member

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    You did start one of those threads though did you not?
  15. Feb 15, 2018
    #15

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    I'm probably one of the last people to be unfairly critical of the team but I don't think I could name a player in our squad who has been as consistently good as Kane or Salah this season. I'd also probably accept that Eriksen and Firminho would make a PFA team of the season ahead of any of our lot. The reason we're ahead of them in the league is because we have manager who's an excellent tactician (not that you'd believe it from the comments/threads on here) and more strength in depth. We've definitely lacked that bit of stardust this season.

    Maybe I'm being harsh? Hard to be upbeat after the recent run. I guess De Gea is a shoe-in for team of the season. Maybe Lingard too? I'd probably have had Jones in there as well, until the Spurs debacle.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  16. Feb 15, 2018
    #16

    Slevs likes to play with penises

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    True.
  17. Feb 15, 2018
    #17

    André Dominguez Full Member

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    You just read my mind! This is one of the reasons I'm seing more futsal games than football as years goes by. I just hope that with the rise of futsal popularity it doesn't follow the same path.

    Fooball is still my favourite sport, but It's getting hard to digest so many stuff nowadays.
  18. Feb 15, 2018
    #18

    YouOnlyLiveTwice Full Member

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    You're only as good as your last few games in football. Right now we seem to be regressing and of course people are frustrated because we want to see the club progressing. However, a good run in the next 5 games will change the mood dramatically. But it doesn't look easy the way we are playing at the moment + the Pogba drama (although it's probably blown out of proportions).
  19. Feb 15, 2018
    #19

    Ødegaard formerly MrEriksen Scout

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    Can't believe I'm writing this...
    I agree with noodle, other people are way too negative!
  20. Feb 15, 2018
    #20

    Revaulx Full Member

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    Indeed. Though at the other extreme there are the people who go mental at the slightest questioning of Jose and respond either by posting lists of things he won donkeys years ago or accusing his critics of being entitled or not real fans. I’m torn over which is worse.
  21. Feb 15, 2018
    #21

    Acole9 Outstanding

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    Pogba can play in a midfield two, Smalling and Jones are a great partnership, yous lot are all idiots. Sod it let's get Darmian back in at right back too ;).
  22. Feb 15, 2018
    #22

    Red Katie The least positive person in match threads ever

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    :lol: All true and reason why the forum is exhausting.
  23. Feb 15, 2018
    #23

    Red Katie The least positive person in match threads ever

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    :lol: All true. And for once I agree with you.
  24. Feb 15, 2018
    #24

    acnumber9 Full Member

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    I know you aren’t, it was more of a general comment. There’s many who seem to think the team is shite and so is the manager while all is rosy elsewhere. Those are the attitudes that don’t align with any logical reality.

    You’re probably right though I think a fully fit Pogba all season was showing signs of being up there prior to him losing his shit the last few games. I’m not sure there’s been many better right backs than Valencia either but it does show our strengths don’t quite lie in the areas we’d like. Which makes sense when you think of our players experience in those areas.
  25. Feb 15, 2018
    #25

    RMD83 Full Member

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    I don't think so. There are problems at united but there has definitely been an acceptable amount of progression since Jose took the job. Currently second to a worryingly good city team, won 2 cups and signed a handful of top draw players. My issue with United under Jose is where do you think we will be in 12 months time? personally I see us spending a lot of money in the summer, probably £150m-£200m, possibly more due to the form of city and I am sure we will bring in some great signings. But I don't think it will be much different than it is now and that isn't based on a mythical crystal ball or being anti Jose its based on his track record over the last 15 years. I bet this time next year we will still be watching us play with the handbrake on, not destroying teams when we take the lead and spoiling the spectacle of big games by being too afraid to take the game to them. I hope I'm wrong.
  26. Feb 15, 2018
    #26

    breakout67 Full Member

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    A fan talking about tactical problems is like a blind person describing a rainbow. Most footballers look clueless when talking tactics despite being vastly more experienced in understanding tactics; yet some fans think they can actually offer something valuable.

    Lately there has been a storm of people talking about how 'obvious' it is what the team has to do. If only management was that easy.

    Looking back in hindsight, this job was a poisoned chalice. We went for the 'punch above your weight' manager and he capitulated, we went for the proven winner with the possession based style, he did ok. Now we've gone for the serial winner and he's done ok as well.

    The structure at the club makes it very difficult for a manager to perform; you can tell that we are structured to be managed by SAF but he retired years ago. No manager will be able to perform like SAF; they need help.
  27. Feb 15, 2018
    #27

    Kag Full Member

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    We're not very good at scoring goals - especially when you compare our goal return to some of our rivals. We haven't been good at this since Ferguson retired - in spite of spending lots of money on some very good footballers (we pretend that they're shit after the fact).

    At present, this doesn't look to be improving in line with both our outlay or quality of player we can choose from. We've scored 51 league goals so far this season, which is less than City, Liverpool and Spurs, on par with a frankly rubbish Arsenal and a couple more than Chelsea (who are having their own struggles under Conte). This is somewhat inflated by some fortunate 4-0 wins at the start of the season (I said this at the time). On current form, I'd be surprised if we're not bottom of the pile come the end of the season.

    Last season we scored less goals than all of our rivals. As well as Bournemouth and Everton. Say no more. In Van Gaal's last season we scored a pathetic 49 goals. During his first season we scored 62. Again, all of our rivals scored more.

    Nobody has imagined this problem. It's a very real problem. You might argue that our goals scored column is clearly improving season on season, which I guess it is, however, considering we've spent lots of money on the likes of Lukaku, Martial, Sanchez, Pogba and others in this time, it is to be expected that we score more. It should be expected that we score more than many of our rivals and fight it out in the biggest games. Instead, we went 1-0 down to Spurs after ten seconds and the game was all but over. Blame Smalling and Jones and move on...

    Defensively (although the last few weeks have been poor), we're good. The numbers have backed this up season after season. Going forward, we're shite, have been for years (see above) and get nowhere near as much out of our attacking players as we should. Our new £90 million striker is on track to score less league goals here than he did at a midtable Everton. That isn't imaginary either, just bloody hopeless.

    My problem is the fact that we concede goals and I sit there in the knowledge the game is done. If we go 1-0 down to Sevilla next week then the game is probably over. Scoring two will likely be beyond us. We don't have the attacking game about us to come back from a goal down and take it to these teams.

    I disagree with the current criticism of Smalling and Jones. I disagree with the overnight shift of opinion on Pogba. I disagree with the relentless and unnecessary criticism of Rashford and Martial. I disagree with the opinion that Valencia and Shaw are somehow the problem in this team. I disagree with the suggestion that Herrera isn't good enough to play in our midfield. I disagree that Lukaku isn't good enough to score goals for us every week. So, yes, lots of these problems are imaginary.

    I believe in the players here. We've got a good side. But Christ, we're awful going forward and Mourinho is ultimately responsible for that.
  28. Feb 15, 2018
    #28

    el3mel Full Member

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    :lol:

    Agree or disagree with you, you're definitely one of my favorite posters here. :lol:
  29. Feb 15, 2018
    #29

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots

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    We have high expectations, we generally get a result we want, but our brand of football is pretty off. In fact it's almost brandless. I've always been behind Jose and still am, but in the near future he has to sort this out because while there were reasons to justify it up until now (mainly recovering from Moyes/LVG), they can't fly for much longer. It's not just about doing it to entertain the fans either. That's a major bonus, but the main reason is to go into games confidently and know we can play well and secure convincing results instead of feeling like we're on the edge of fecking up and losing points.
  30. Feb 15, 2018
    #30

    Ish Lights on for Luke

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    Yeah, I’ve seen the line(s) “it shows now standards have slipped at United” or “SAF or Keane would never have allowed that” being trotted quite often around here.

    There’s essentially not much “right or wrong” anyway. I mean, Jose could turn out to be a massive success, or he could achieve little else of note during his time here. Either way, I think it’s fair to say we all want what’s best for United. We just have extremely different ways of showing it or views of how we’d like to achieve it. Some are also more patient than others.
  31. Feb 15, 2018
    #31

    simplyared Full Member

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    On the whole we're not imagining problems. The bar will always be high at our club and when taking part as player, manager, or staff, you must be aware of that. There are concerns at the club at present and one reacts. Simple as that! Facts are we have employed one of the greatest managers of all time who for some reason is underperforming. We also have players underperforming. We don't dominate matches anymore How ever well we start we end up clinging on to an odd goal lead waiting for the final whistle. We are just not playing in the fashion we would like to play at our great club and people with enough know-how of the game voice their opinions.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  32. Feb 15, 2018
    #32

    POF Full Member

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    The media perception of the club is certainly more negative than the reality. The combination of United, Mourinho and City's media games mean the club is the media's favourite target.

    As for actual problems, the biggest one for me is the lack of leadership and determination to win. It has been such a frustrating season. Whenever the team gets on a good run and looks like it has turned a corner, it is followed up by a heartless insipid display that ruins all the momentum.

    I really thought Pogba had made a lot of progress this season and was developing into a leader of the team. But the Spurs game showed him to be a selfish baby who has no business in any leadership role at the club. It's probably the most disappointed I have been in any United player's character/attitude since Rooney's "I need to be more selfish and demand to play up front" speech.
  33. Feb 15, 2018
    #33

    royboy16 Full Member

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    Don't forget we have some threads about how great City are also :D
  34. Feb 15, 2018
    #34

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

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    We have problems as does everyone bar City in the PL and maybe Barcelona if you were to include teams from the top 5 leagues. Our problems are in areas our rivals have very few of so they're bound to be highlighted, or exaggerated, more often. However, whilst our attack may not be as good as Liverpool's or Tottenhams, we've a better defence and our midfield isn't as bad as recent games have shown. The reason we're second is that, as a team (looking at the entire unit), we're just as good, if not better, than the rest.

    I do think certain problems are imagined - for example, lack of identity, style or system, call it whatever you want. It's there and it has seen us get to where we are right now. The problem (not imagined) is that it's not being translated onto the pitch often enough and has been illustrated in the recent games against Spurs and Newcastle. People forget that we had won our previous 5 games without conceding and looked to be edging away from our rivals.

    To conclude, we have issues but I fully trust Mourinho to sort them out. He's eradicated a lot of the shitness that was left over by van Gaal and Moyes. Why wouldn't he be able to complete the job he was hired to do?
  35. Feb 15, 2018
    #35

    Terminator New Member

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    We suck really bad against the top 6 and that is a huge problem.
  36. Feb 15, 2018
    #36

    Nytram Shakes Full Member

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    I think are issues are getting over blown, we are second in the league and have a great defensive record.

    Our attacking play is generally a bit terrible to watch, but we are a mourinho team they arn't renowned for great attacking play, this is what we signed up for when we brought him in as manager.

    The bottom line is we are currently second in the league which is exactly were we should be with this team and squad.
  37. Feb 15, 2018
    #37

    diplomat Banned

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    We are 2nd, but only 2 points above Liverpool and a better goal difference by 2, 3 points away from Chelsea (better GD by 6), 4 points more than Spurs (better GD by 4) and 9 points above Arsenal.

    We have Chelsea, Liverpool, City and Arsenal to play in our schedule, with some very tough away games in it as well. I would say the only team we are safe from is Arsenal. The fight for top 4 is on and one top team will stay out of it at the end of the season.

    Just imagine losing to Chelsea and the rest winning their games. Even a draw would not be good enough for us, in my opinion. We need a definite win and also a definite win against Liverpool if we want to keep 2nd, which is what Jose was talking about in early January. It's a very tough task, let alone in our current form.
  38. Feb 15, 2018
    #38

    eat_grass Full Member

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    Drama sells. The media is financially incentivised to stir up sh*t with United, and Mourinho hit-pieces generate a lot of clicks. Put the two together and you get a flood of negative press. Sadly, some fans are susceptible to their negativity, and susceptible to envying Pep, Man City, Liverpool, etc., because of the media's love-in with them, so they become very negative toward United.

    The club has some issues to sort out for sure, but I get the impression a lot of the negativity from some fans is born from the press.
  39. Feb 15, 2018
    #39

    minoo-utd Full Member

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    Heard alot bout Pogba wants Jose yo change his tactics and I really wonder if this true, and also read somewhere it is like Pogba doing us a favor by playing in our side! Ffs.
  40. Feb 15, 2018
    #40

    JK-27 Full Member

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    We're micro-managing, that's for sure, just like in all areas of society where people are being micro-managed. We can't see the wood for the trees. 2nd in the league, averaging 2 goals a game, still in the FA Cup, still in the CL, with a young squad who have their best years ahead of them.