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At what point do fans/coaches give up on 'potential' great players?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Irwin99, Apr 17, 2019 at 16:15.

  1. Apr 17, 2019 at 16:15
    #1

    Irwin99 Full Member

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    Just as a rule is there a specific point or time frame in a player's development where the sentiment of 'give him time, he's still young' crosses into 'it's just not gonna happen for this guy'? Maybe after 3 or 4 seasons of sustained first team appearances? The same question applies to injury prone players.

    Just curious about this given some of the criticism of Rashford/Martial last night and looking back on some players from the last 5-10 years. We had a situation on Sir Alex's retirement where we had 3 young centre backs in Evans, Smalling and Jones that were marked as the future of our defence. All three of them had shown some real promise at various points in their early careers and it seems silly not to acknowledge this. We hoped that at least one of those would go on to be a world class centre back and 6 or 7 years later it sadly hasn't happened. Similarly if you think back to Arsenal ten years or so back they had players like Walcott and Wilshere and they just never kicked on from some early promise. This emphasis on developing players can obviously affect transfer strategy as Jose hinted that he was prevented from signing a new left back at United because the club firmly believed in Luke Shaw's development which would take time. In Arsenal's and United's previous cases you could argue that this faith was severely misplaced.

    So is there a specific point at a players development and after a sustained period of first team appearances where you get to a point where you just give up? Or are there circumstances where each case has its own merits? Has a young or injury prone player proved you wrong and developed into a proper first team player?

    Personally I think Rashford will go onto be a very good player and I think he has far better potential than Welbeck ever had (a player he gets compared to unfairly IMO). I think he will develop into a better player but Martial is infuriating at the moment and I'm starting to lose all hope in him ever becoming a great player for United.
  2. Apr 17, 2019 at 16:31
    #2

    Rifer Full Member

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    1. Bad attitude, poor discipline and disappointing professionalism/work-ethics.
    And controversy outside football may helped escalate that.
    Case: Ravel Morrison.

    2. Mental strength too I suppose.
    Case: Adriano.

    3. Mentality/mind-set.
    Case: Balotelli, Quaresma?

    4. "Losing their head" i.e. believing too much on their hype.
    Case: Macheda, Januzaj, Robinho?

    4. age factor.
    If they're getting old and old and still rubbish then well..
    Case: Phil Jones, the new Duncan Edwards? :lol:

    5. Big injury(ies).
    Case: Pato

    6. Joining small leagues/not joining the bigger leagues/not joining bigger clubs/stalling/etc.
    Case: Oscar, that young player from Brazil(?) who joined the chinese league, and many high rated young players.

    ---

    If the potential players are not in one of those categories, I think we can still believe and not giving up yet on them.
    Just don't over-hoping they will fulfill their potential.
  3. Apr 17, 2019 at 16:53
    #3

    Irwin99 Full Member

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    It's still probably too early say but Shaw was rumoured to have a few of those issues listed and I've been mostly won over or at least encouraged that he'll make it here if he keeps up the progress. It has been 4 years since he signed though (granted the broken leg ruled one of those years out) and there are are times when I lost a bit of faith.

    Edit this is his 5th season :eek:
  4. Apr 17, 2019 at 17:05
    #4

    Paul_Scholes18 Full Member

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    It depend on a lot of factors. Do they improve in training/show the desire to improve? Do the environment not work out for them?
    Can they deal with the pressure of playing for a big club?

    I think as long as they got the mental qualities and show improvements I would not give up. If we got multiple talents though with only space for a few of them you might need to let someone go though.
  5. Apr 17, 2019 at 17:10
    #5

    Beagle Full Member

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    A reliable measure is consistency. They should be able to show their qualities more frequently as they develop rather than in flashes which is acceptable for at a younger age. The good decisions on the pitch need to outnumber the poor ones.
  6. Apr 17, 2019 at 17:12
    #6

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

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    I saw Gary Nevile make an interesting point about how fans (and pundits to some extent) are likely to give more time to their own players than players that have been bought from other clubs. The example he gave was Rashford vs Martial.
  7. Apr 17, 2019 at 17:22
    #7

    Irwin99 Full Member

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    Agree with the pundits, but not sure about the fans. Lingard and McTom have never had an easy ride with some of our fans but Dalot and TFM seem to get rave reviews based on not a lot really.
  8. Apr 17, 2019 at 17:24
    #8

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

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    Dalot is 19~ & Lingard is 27~ (can't be bothered looking), while McTominay had the negative of being a bit of a Mourinho player. It's definitely not black & white, but there's gotta be an element of it in there somewhere for a lot of fans.
  9. Apr 17, 2019 at 17:25
    #9

    ti vu Full Member

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    He's talking about about our fan base. It's not always the case else where.
  10. Apr 17, 2019 at 17:32
    #10

    Paul_Scholes18 Full Member

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    I think with a lot of fans here it is the other way around. If someone has cost a lot people assume he will turn out great so they stick up for them more. While people turn on our own faster since they have lower expectations so it is easier to target them.
    Although a lot of people like our own players and will defend them more and hope they come good.

    For me what ego and wages a player demand reflect a lot what I expect from a player. If someone takes space and demand more then I expect better performances. If someone plays and expect to be a squad player then I am happy with them performing like one.
  11. Apr 17, 2019 at 17:34
    #11

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

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    I think it's definitely been the case at Anfield also. Perhaps not so much in the past few years as we've had very few players to actually be unhappy with, but yeah.
  12. Apr 17, 2019 at 17:37
    #12

    Pexbo has never watched Star Wars

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    Judging by the caf, early into their second season if they’re not one of the best players in the league already

    1st season: exciting! can do no wrong!
    2nd season: what do they even do?
  13. Apr 17, 2019 at 18:02
    #13

    Copa Mundial New Member

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    The term potential is the most over used term in football at the moment and is simply used by managers and fans to buy time for a player that is underperforming.

    There was never any need to talk about the potential of Giggs, Ronaldo, Owen, Rooney, Rio, Fowler, etc when they broke in to the first team. The term potential wasn't needed as they just delivered immediately and continued to do so.

    Fans mention the potential of Martial and Rashford for example but they are not kids anymore! Jeez they will be 24 and 22 respectively this year and have both played a number of games at the highest level. We should be expecting far better from these two, and not simply clinging to their potential as a way of justifying their inclusion in our first team. In terms of the Premier League Rashford has scored just 27 goals in 106 appearances. By comparison after his first 96 games Owen was already at 48 goals.

    It's time to toughen up at Utd, if a player is not delivering we must be ruthless and get rid. We cannot continue to keep using the potential 'card' to defend players that are not up to standard.

    Personally I'm not interested in watching young players grow and develop if it is to the detriment of the team. I just want to see the team win and I don't care what players we use to achieve that.
  14. Apr 17, 2019 at 18:09
    #14

    giorno Full Member

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    Years of underachievement. Entertainment also happens. People are naturally more prone to hold out hope for a Ronaldinho than a Kane