Auction-Trade Madness Draft - QF: Pat vs Sjor/TRoss

Discussion in 'Draft Games Forum' started by Edgar Allan Pillow, Mar 6, 2018.

?

With players at career peak, who will win this match?

Poll closed Mar 7, 2018.
  1. Team Pat Mustard

    60.0%
  2. Team Sjor Bepo / TRoss

    40.0%
  1. Mar 6, 2018
    #1

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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    [​IMG] VS [​IMG]

    ...................................... TEAM PAT MUSTARD ................................................................................ TEAM SJOR/TROSS ....................................



    TEAM PAT MUSTARD

    Formation: 4-2-2-2

    Stricken with jealousy during the reinforcement round as Sjor embarked on the greatest transfer muppet frenzy in drafting history, I've decided to switch things up a little myself. Out with the diamond, in with a vaguely Brazil 1994 WC inspired 4-2-2-2.

    Dani Alves comes in at right back, and his swashbuckling attacking style is an ideal fit for the formation and theme. I'd have loved to have went full Samba and gung-ho with Marcelo at left back, but the treacherous @Enigma_87 screwed me over and Ricardo Pavoni remains at left back. Less expansive and skilful than Marcelo, he's nonetheless a reliable overlapper and a resolute defender, and probably the better, more pragmatic fit against a dangerous wide forward like Bene.

    Voronin and Bonhof form the sturdy double pivot in central midfield, and ahead of them Pedernera and Stojkovic are the lavishly gifted pair of attacking midfielders. Stojkovic was a mobile and wonderfully creative playmaker who was excellent at attacking the right wing, and the great Argentine Pedernera originally played as a left winger, so both will be at home in their respective zones. Ahead of them are Ronaldo and Romario, who are both fecking awesome, and even more awesome as a duo.

    The Opposition:

    I share Sjor's penchant for going weak at the knees for a good False 9 formation, so I like his rebuild. The attack is really well-constructed and every player looks a good tactical fit for the formation and the possession-based playing style. Not much to criticise then, but I hope and trust that Ronaldo and Romario will besmirch Wright and Boateng, and that the rest of the team is solid enough to provide the platform.

    TEAM SJOR/TROSS

    Tactics
    Dont think i have to say much about this team and the way they will play. Team built around my 2 best players, Emperor Busi and Don Andres. Would be stupid if i didnt take a lot from the system they are at home and the system that gets the most out of them. Obviously there is no Messi here so as Spain needed to change something there we had to do the same thing and while we kept false 9 its a totally different front trio where both wide forwards have a lot more freedom both on and off the ball, similar to the way Holland used their wide forwards in Total football or the current false 9 example with Klopp and his trio up front.
    But at the end of the day, win or lose its great to finally face a proper opponent in this tournament.

    Possession

    All 11 players are comfortable on the ball, most tricky one is probably Wright but from what i read he was a composed passer of the ball after his transition to centerback and this is the way he sees his game which is pretty much the way we want him to play here.

    Next to Billy we have two players that were fantastic on the ball in Boateng and Zanetti. Midfield in self explanatory tbh, Busquets and Iniesta in their best roles with Gerson used as a game controlling playmaker.
    Until we reach the front three, very little would differ from Tiki taka system but in the final third it changes a bit. Hidegkuti is the central figure of the attack. Father figure of false nine role, at least in Europe if not in general. Fantastic footballer to who i fell in love while researching for Euro draft, truly magnificent footballer that offered everything you would want from a false nine. Great technique combined with his passing range and vision made him good but what made him special was his selflessness on and off the ball, only true greats can make other greats even better and we have 3 of those in the team in Busi, Iniesta and Hidegkuti. Beppe and Bene will be in dreamlands. As mentioned, Beppe Signori as left forward and Ferenc Bene as right forward, both have a lot of freedom both on and off the ball. Even though Hidegkuti is a great player he cant replace Messi, nobody can IMO so the plan was to free a bit other offensive players and use the ones with a little more ability on the ball then Messi's partners had.

    Defending

    We defend with possession but when we dont have the ball the plan is next. Stay very compact in the middle, as long as the ball is out wide we are comfortable so both Zanetti and Chagas will tuck in and make that back 4 very narrow, limit the space in the middle so there isnt much space for individual runs through the team and the midfield needs to cut the space in front of the CB so they can focus on the space behind, having Navas behind them helps as not only is he a great 1v1 keeper he also reads the game well and can act as keeper sweeper. Hidegkuti will move around Voronin while Beppe and Bene i want also narrow so they will focus more on Bonhof and Giles and not Pavoni and Alves. All 4 wide players are great athletes and are very fast so they can make that transition work from defence to offence and vice versa.
  2. Mar 6, 2018
    #2

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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  3. Mar 6, 2018
    #3

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    id say good luck to pat as always but after dropping Giles no chance in hell that is happening.
  4. Mar 6, 2018
    #4

    Ecstatic Full Member

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    2 teams well built. I could vote now but am curious to discover the "discussions" :wenger:
  5. Mar 6, 2018
    #5

    Arbitrium Taking a year off

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    Ronaldo and Romario to score a hat trick each.
  6. Mar 6, 2018
    #6

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    Lesser known players:





    Not much if all footage of Billy Wright but the guy was second in Balon d'Or just behind Alfredo Di Stefano at the age of 33!
  7. Mar 6, 2018
    #7

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    [​IMG]

    Every orchestra needs a conductor to bring the best out of its musicians. A conductor leads the rhythm of a piece, they make sure the true nature of the music is revealed just as its composer had intended. An untrained eye may claim that with or without, the end product will sound the same but that’s simply not the case. The magic of each instrument playing in perfect harmony with one another can be moving, inspiring, even magnificent when led by the right hand.

    And so we come to Nándor Hidegkuti.

    Hungary’s much-revered team of the early fifties only became the Magical, Magnificent and Mighty Magyars when Hidegkuti established himself in the team in a playmaker role as a result of his performances in the 1952 Olympics. Having been in and around the team since 1945 deployed in the main as a winger, it was his switch to playmaker that brought the best from a team of outstanding players.

    Hidegkuti took a position most akin to an attacking midfielder in the modern game. It was a role employed by Hungary before, but Hidegkuti became the last piece to fit into the team’s exceptional puzzle. In a side littered with footballing giants such as Ferenc Puskás, Sandor Kocsis, and József Bozsik, it was Hidegkuti who allowed them to flourish.

    His movement meant that defences struggled to pick him up without leaving huge gaps for Puskás or Kocsis to exploit. An intelligent player, he realised this and used the freedom to devastating effect.

    When England played Hungary in 1953, it was Hidegkuti’s performance that left the established English tactics so bereft. Defender Harry Johnstone admitted he simply didn’t know how to mark him – he’d no idea whether to get tight and leave others in space, or gamble and leave Hidegkuti to roam where ever he wanted. Hidegkuti plundered a hat-trick and been a revelation. He’d proved that power and pace were redundant in comparison to near perfect technique married with intelligence.



    Hidegkuti played throughout the 1954 World Cup and scored four times, including one goal in the brilliant semi-final with Uruguay. His entire club career was spent in Hungary so he never gained the same headlines at Barcelona and Real Madrid that Kocsis and Puskás achieved after defection. An innovator to the end, he moved into management and pioneered a 5-3-2 formation with Al-Ahly in Egypt to huge success, involved for the second time in his life with a golden generation of players.

    Hidegkuti was the fulcrum of the brilliant attacking triangle that was so devastating for the Magyars. Hidegkuti laid the foundation for a position so commonplace in today’s game and allowed Puskás and Kocsis to play to their very best.

    I’m 31 years old and came across Hidegkuti while researching the Magyars, immediately devouring all available footage of this mesmerising player. Watching the ‘Match of the Century’ against England or any of his performances in 1954 World Cup, the intelligence is evident and the ability to bring the best out of those around him is key.

    Every orchestra needs a conductor to truly bring the best out of its musicians. The brilliant Mighty Magyars had Nándor Hidegkuti.


    Here are his performances at European Championship stage.

    Nandor Hidegkuti at international cup:
    Italy 0:3 Hungary(played 45, scored goal)
    Switzerland 2:4 Hungary(subbed Palotas in 31' minute at 2:0 for Switzerland, scored one, assists unknown)

    Austria 2:2 Hungary(assist and goal)


    Hungary 2:4 Czechoslovakia(assist and "assist" for penalty)


    Switzerland 4:5 Hungary(cant find anything)

    Yugoslavia 1:3 Hungary(2 assists)
  8. Mar 6, 2018
    #8

    harms Way Staff

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    You've sold all the scousers and yet you somehow managed to stick with the Liverpool theme :lol:
  9. Mar 6, 2018
    #9

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    :lol: once you go scouser there is no way back.
  10. Mar 6, 2018
    #10

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    Giles is injured and remains in the squad, unlike Best and Robson :D. Also, I think me and you are the only two draft junkies who like Giles :(
  11. Mar 6, 2018
    #11

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    Best and Robbo were bobbins in the first round while on the other hand Giles was so good he was only doing rabona passes.
  12. Mar 6, 2018
    #12

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    :lol:
  13. Mar 6, 2018
    #13

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    Lets get back to the game(send me that rabona gif in our convo btw :D), there will be next to zero space in the middle of the ground and i think this is where my players will excel as they are like fish in water in that scenario. As i said in my OP, when we defend(and the plan is to have the ball as much as possible so we defend via possession) the plan would be to stay as narrow as possible, let Alves and Pavoni have the ball out wide, force Ronaldo to go wide for the ball. Cut the space in the middle so CB can focus mainly on the area behind them rather then face Ro Ro face to face.
  14. Mar 6, 2018
    #14

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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    Not really a fan of Pat's tinkerings. Positionally Pedernera is a good fit but tactically, it's flawed, esp with that front 2. But that duo upfront is still more potent than Sjors defense.

    Sjor 2nd team is well balanced. They'll have more possession and those wide forwards will have joy against Pats fullbacks.

    I think this will be 3-2 for Pat.
  15. Mar 6, 2018
    #15

    Skizzo Full Member

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    Ahh the old Ro-Ro-Ped-Sto-Vo-Bo front six
  16. Mar 6, 2018
    #16

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    Immense performance from Boateng in WC final. Original tiki taka managed to built one of the best teams that ever played the game with turds in defence(Pique, Mascherano(as CB), feck even Yaya played as CB in that team)because of their ability on the ball and here we actually have good/great defenders in there.
  17. Mar 6, 2018
    #17

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    :lol: I only picked them because that rolls off the tongue so nicely.
  18. Mar 6, 2018
    #18

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    :lol::lol:
  19. Mar 6, 2018
    #19

    Isotope Full Member

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    Voted for the Caf's Harry Redknapp :drool:.
  20. Mar 6, 2018
    #20

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    Aye, Signori stationed high up the pitch finding space behind Dani Alves on the counter is my biggest concern here.

    I quite like my tinkerings tbh. The team shape is reminiscent of the 90s Brazil teams, so it should be familiar for both Ronaldo and Romario, and with two excellent attacking midfielders, both of whom are happy drifting out wide, Busquets will have a rough time deciding what passing lanes to block off.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  21. Mar 6, 2018
    #21

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    wow, great work from @Šjor Bepo there. THought after selling his whole team it would be a big car crash there, but seems very functional unit.

    On the other hand now I understand why @Pat_Mustard wanted Marcelo so much... :lol:
  22. Mar 6, 2018
    #22

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    Your tactics are spot on tbh, particularly the 'defending via possession' with that excellent possession-based midfield, but I don't think you're robust enough defensively to stop my team stretching you out of shape and finding openings. We have the players to exploit all the channels (Pavoni wide left, Pedernera inside left, Romario centre, Stojkovic inside right, Dani Alves outside right, RONALDO EVERYWHERE!) with only Pavoni being workmanlike rather than capable of genius, and loads of scope for positional interchanges and overloads.
  23. Mar 6, 2018
    #23

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    Bastard :D
  24. Mar 6, 2018
    #24

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
  25. Mar 6, 2018
    #25

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    No wonder he plays for fecking pat....
  26. Mar 6, 2018
    #26

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    cheers pat.
    As for my defending via actual defending. As i said few times, we are perfectly comfortable with you attacking through wide areas and us defending wide delivery. Neither of your quartet up front is a threat we worry about from crossing situations. So Pavoni and Alves can bomb up and down as much as they want, in fact we want them two to do that as that opens up space for Beppe and Bene behind them.

    You abandoning diamond actually works out pretty well for us, our front three can now focus fully on Voronin and Bonhof so we can push you out wide even sooner then we actually wanted in original plan.
  27. Mar 6, 2018
    #27

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    maybe i fecked this up tactically and we would be winning at this point if i decided to man mark Fenomeno with Park.....what you think @Arbitrium ?
  28. Mar 6, 2018
    #28

    Indnyc Full Member

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    Never drop park.. Park was a big game player!
  29. Mar 6, 2018
    #29

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    A lot has been said about our defence and the way we will defend, can we switch that around a bit? Think we all agree that my team will have much more of possession so pat's defending is even more important then mine. Whats the plan for Hidegkuti? Who picks Iniesta in pockets? How will you deal with ball behind for Beppe and Bene, specially as pats fullbacks are his way out and most important part of his attacking phase. When Zanetti pushes forward, will Pedernera be able to stop him? Im first to admit i dont know much about him, only thing that i think that i know is that he was some sort of a false 9 in River Plate.
  30. Mar 6, 2018
    #30

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    Fenomeno and Romario are class of their own but my attack while not being my main strength isnt to shabby at all, a lot of goals in there.
    Signori at his peak - 119 goals in 169 games while playing in probably the best league that ever was.
    Hidegkuti - 304 goals in 450 games
    Bene - 339 goals in 493 games.
  31. Mar 6, 2018
    #31

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    Pavoni might have been a relatively orthodox full back going forward (although still a dangerous one as evidenced by his record of 57 goals in 423 games for Independiente), but Dani Alves offers so much more than just pumping crosses into the box. We're more than happy to channel our build up through Alves as he can bring our attackers into play in so many ways. The variety in his build up play is astonishing for a full back, from crosses and cut backs to one twos and killer through balls. He's equally comfortable attacking the byline or cutting infield too:

  32. Mar 6, 2018
    #32

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    I didnt say the plan is to give a free pass to Alves, plan is to let him have the ball out wide and let him do his crossing as we are not concerned with defending those against your quartet up front. When and if he cuts inside of course he is going to be marked. Stopping through balls from wide areas shouldnt be an issue with back 4 being very narrow, thats the whole point of our gameplan.

    One more thing which is fairly important, Alves and Pavoni will have to be your guys for transitioning from back to attack so their attacking impact should be a bit weaker then usual, specially in Alves case as this time he wont be in a team that dominates for big majority of the game and where team allows him to focus fully on his final third game, this time its roles reversed for him.
  33. Mar 6, 2018
    #33

    Raees Boing Boing Baggies

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    Very surprised that I've ended up going for Sjor. Actually like his midfield and defence.. even the attack is cohesive. You're a muppet but tactically you've done well here mate.
  34. Mar 6, 2018
    #34

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    That'll be Pedernera's defensive brief when you're attacking down your right wing, but yeah, I'd have to concede that Zanetti will cause him problems there that he wasn't accustomed to dealing with. He was the tactical mastermind behind that River Plate team, and in my (limited) understanding they were prototypically modern in terms of attacking and defending as a unit, so I'd imagine he'd be alert and receptive to the threat Zanetti poses, but I doubt he'd ever have came up against an attacking full back of Zanetti's calibre.

    Hidegkuti will be dealt with zonally and he faces tough resistance wherever he roams, with both my CB pairing and Voronin/Bonhof being very robust defensively. Zmuda was one of the great organisers of his era too, which will come in handy against such a fluid attacking set up, and furthermore has pedigree vs Cruyff Total Football era Netherlands.

  35. Mar 6, 2018
    #35

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    With 2 very active, attacking minded fullbacks i reckon it would be pretty much impossible to stop Hidegkuti backed with that midfield he has behind. Bonhof and Voronin have to much in their hands to begin with, then when Hidegkuti drops of there will be no one to pick him up and CBs cant really step up because of Signori and Bene. Not only they are a threat running behind but they are also 2 fantastic dribblers so they have to stay back and protect pockets behind Alves and Pavoni.
  36. Mar 6, 2018
    #36

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    I think that's selling Alves short a bit. He was a force of nature going forward for a much less dominant Sevilla team before joining Barca, and his stunning performances against Monaco in the CL knockout stages last season (when possession was roughly 50/50 in both games) showed that he can still impose himself on a a match outside of a possession-based set up.

    I don't know if Marinho is particularly well-suited to that narrow back four tactic, as he seemed very much a free spirit who wasn't in a great hurry to get back to recover his defensive position. More generally, I don't think you've got the personnel in the defensive phase to pull off the tactic. Busquets/Iniesta/Gerson looks lightweight in terms of forming that narrow fortress that you'd need in front of your CBs to defend against my AMs, and Romario in particular is a master at finding openings in crowded areas and will punish the slightest lapse from Wright and Boateng. Dare I say it, my Zmuda/Forster/Voronin/Bonhof quartet would be better suited to dealing with Pedernera/Stojkovic/Ronaldo/Romario.

    The 'defending by possession' aspect of your tactics I buy completely, and it'll be effective in phases for sure, but I've got too much quality for you to grab a complete stranglehold of the match, and I think your team will struggle when I am on the attack.
  37. Mar 6, 2018
    #37

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    I just said it takes his tool when you have to do more then just focus on the final third which was the case in most games for Barca, Alves proved(not that he had to) himself at Juve that he can do it in other system as well but as good as he was and he was pretty damn good he wasnt an assist machine we all saw at Barca, thats all im saying. Just like my Zanetti wont be able to completely destroy that side because he has specific tactical orders and if he had freedom i have zero doubts that flank would be fully his against Pavoni and Pedernera if you want to count him as a wide player.

    As for Chagas, i only watched him at WC so its not the biggest sample but he looked more then solid defensive wise, i read somewhere that the whole defence of that side is seen as the best defensive unit they ever had so i reckon he would be able to adapt here.

    Midfield trio would look lightweight if they warent that dominant on the ball, defensive wise Busque proved himself at Barca when they lost that dominance, feck he is even taking the piss this season in 442 system, something even i wouldnt buy and im first to admit im one of his biggest fanboys. Iniesta would be able to do it no questions asked IMO and the guy i also have some doubts is Gerson but i reckon he can at least make a tight space tighter if nothing else.

    Regarding your defence facing your attack, you are probably right but then again remove possession out of this and your defence would face much more defending against Ro Ro and co. so in the end i reckon they would concede more.
  38. Mar 7, 2018
    #38

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    You did take Alves tho.. :(

    Anyway to the game - I really liked what you did last game against ID, but here I think Sjor has the upper hand - as crazy as it sounds having sold his entire team and pretty much I expected this to be a whitewash.. Bene and Signori are exactly the types of forwards you wouldn't want to face in a narrowish approach that relies a lot on the full backs to provide the width going forward. On top of that you are up against Iniesta/Gerson midfield, and even Busquets, who can find space pretty quick and play a direct ball to one of the forwards.

    Hidegkuti could provide all sorts of problems in that false 9 role, with Signori/Bene stretching your defence.

    On the flip side I think both Ro-Ro would have plenty of joy against Boatend(although I rate Billy Wright from what I've read about him) and with the help of Zanetti tucking in and congesting the space could limit the chances a bit at the back. Personally I think Pedernera sticks out a bit in this set up and if you went with the previous team with just Dani Alves as a reinforcement - you'd have much better control of the game with Giles on instead of Pedernera and I'd have voted for you once again without any hesitation.

    As things stand I'm not so sure how those front 4 will work together and whether you'll provide the stage for Ro-Ro to shine. That 4-2-2-2 team was build more around Socrates and Zico - not the forward line which you want to underline here IMHO.
  39. Mar 7, 2018
    #39

    harms Way Staff

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    To be fair his point of reference was not 1982 team, but 1994/98, which was built to make the best out of the front 2
  40. Mar 7, 2018
    #40

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    Pat was worried about the result so i promised him i will post busi vid if the game gets tight :) and tbh would feel dirty if i didnt post while i had him, love him.