Auction-Trade Madness Draft - R1: 2mufc0/Theon vs Moby

Discussion in 'Draft Games Forum' started by Edgar Allan Pillow, Feb 23, 2018.

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With players at career peaks, who will win the match?

Poll closed Feb 24, 2018.
  1. Team 2mufc0 / Theon

    57.9%
  2. Team Moby

    42.1%
  1. Feb 23, 2018
    #1

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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    [​IMG]
    ........................................ TEAM 2MUFC0 / THEON ...........................


    vs

    ................................................... TEAM MOBY ...............................................

    [​IMG]




    TEAM 2MUFC0 / THEON

    FORMATION: 4-3-3

    Our team is inspired by the Netherlands '74 team and has been built around Cruyff, in terms of personal, formation and philosophy. We have proven partnerships all over the pitch and are setup to dominate the match against the opposition.

    In attack Cruyff will be playing his false #9 role with Ruud Gullit and Faas Wilkes as roaming wide forwards - the physicality and technical quality of Gullit well complimented by the goalscoring dynamism of Wilkes (Cruyff's hero growing up, who rattled 35 goals in 38 games for Holland). In midfield Neeskens/Van Hanegem/Haan provide the perfect totaalvoetbal base - set to dominate possession whilst also providing immense defensive steel in the middle of the park.

    Defensively the team is marshalled by Ronald Koeman - arguably the finest defensive passer in the history of the game and the archetypical sweeper for this style. He will replicate the role he played in Cruyff's Barcelona Dream Team, running the game from the back and launching counter attacks with his exquisite passing. On the right Burgnich remains the gold standard as a defensive right back and he will look to tuck in besides Koeman (as he did for Picchi in the Grande Inter side of the mid-60's). Partnering Koeman in the middle is Oleg Kuznetsov, a Rolls-Royce of a defender who finished 11th and 17th in the Ballon d'Or at his peak. Balancing out the defensive players either side of Koeman, Marinho Chagas provides width and attacking impetus down the left flank.

    WHY WE WILL WIN:
    1. Dominance in possession: The 3-5-2 of Moby is more defensive, counter-attacking system, with our play style and players we will dominate possession. Although he has top class defenders we have creative players throughout the team who will create chances. Whilst he has two good strikers, the famously intense Dutch pressing will suffocate their supply and disrupt any offensive rhythm - indeed the midfield dynamism of Haan, Van Hanegem and Neeskens is a couple of levels above the opposition counterparts.
    2. Complimentary style: The core of our team is made up of players who know and succeeded in the total football philosophy - this chemistry throughout the side enhances the performance of the team, as it did in ‘74.
    3. Distribution from deep: An undoubted legend of the game and regular one man defence for Cruyff’s Dream Team, in this sort of set-up Koeman becomes turbo-charged in terms of his influence. With Burgnich tucking in and Haan capable of dropping into the back line when needed, Koeman has the perfect platform to instigate attacks and provide the platform for our possession based style in midfield and attack.

    TEAM MOBY

    Standard 5-2-1-2 formation. Exceptional brick wall of a defense, flying wingbacks down both sides, all round midfield due, creative genius in the hole with a devastating pair of forwards.

    The World Cup Uruguayan world cup winning keeper Roque Maspoli stands between the posts behind the defense marshalled by the peerless leadership of Franco Baresi who will be bringing in his GOAT levels of shutting down shop at the back. Partnering him on the right is his tried and trusted deputy from one of the greatest defenses the world has seen in 1990 WC, Riccardo Ferri. On the left is the greatest defender produced by the Netherlands, the stylist Ruud Krol - perfectly fit for his role of a wide CB comfortable in covering wide areas as well as central.

    Flanking the defense on the left is the Russian two-way machine in Anatoliy Demyanenko, and on the right is legendary Argentine, Javier Zanetti. Both fullbacks are a neverending reservoir of work rate and stamina, capable of making massive impact going forward and safe as houses at the back. Both of them will be playing as complete wingbacks, being involved in both phases.

    The midfield comprises of the legendary Spurs dup of the 1960s - Dave Mackay and Danny Blanchflower. The latter being one of the greatest names to come out of British Isles, he will be playing as the playmaking central midfielder, adding incredible reading of the game to his exceptional passing, vision and the ability to control the tempo. Complemented perfectly the hard as nails Mackay, who made a world class partnership with him at Spurs and would be playing as the defensive midfielder.

    Completing the midfield is the greatest Romanian of all time, the creative genius Gheorghe Hagi. One of the attacking midfielders of his time, he will be playing as one in this time right at the heart of the game and will be using his sensational ball control and dribbling in close areas along with his devastating final balls picking out the two forwards.

    Up front is the deadly duo of Karl-Heinz Rummenigge and Jimmy Greaves. One of the greatest German players ever, he will be playing as the complete forward here, possessing world class acceleration, control, power and an insane goal threat, he will be exploiting the space between the lines and bursting forward from the wide channels darting towards goal. Along him is possibly the greatest goalscorer England has ever seen. 44 goals in 57 games for England and another 402 goals during his club career, his club numbers right from his first season go 22, 37, 30, 43, 9(12), 30, 44, 36, 35, 16, 31, 29, 26, 11. Thirteen seasons of absolute brutality. Again, playing as the centre forward he will be providing the massive goal threat, an exceptional technical player along with that who can easily drop into channels and dribble past players.

    • Quick, direct football, exploiting the transitions with quick balls releasing the devastating front three and the two flying wingbacks.
    • Excellent technical ability right throughout the team. Creating from the back with Baresi and Krol, carrying out from the wing and playmakers through the middle.
    • One of the best backlines in the draft led by none other than Baresi ensuring watertight defense.
    • Familiar partnerships over the pitch in Baresi - Ferri, Mackay - Blanchflower - Greaves.
    • Tons of goals in the two forwards.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2018
  2. Feb 23, 2018
    #2

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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  3. Feb 23, 2018
    #3

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    To kick things off i found this good explanation of the total football philosophy on YouTube, it's only a few minutes long but is a good overview for those not too familiar with it:

    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  4. Feb 23, 2018
    #4

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover Scout

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    Some fun sides here. I really like that Dutch generations front line of Gullit, Cruyff and Faas Wilkes! Burgnich looks a little out of place though especially with no clear player to mark, maybe Greaves? Wish they made that Burgnich - Krol trade as I think I would like both defenses better with that switch.
  5. Feb 23, 2018
    #5

    harms Way Staff

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    Shocking scenes at the very first minute — Ronald Koeman scores an own goal past Köpke with a trademark thunderball. Turns out he hates Germans.
    [​IMG]
  6. Feb 23, 2018
    #6

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Cheers onenil, we couldn't make the Krol deal without severely weakening other areas. Burgnich serves a function here to release Koeman.
  7. Feb 23, 2018
    #7

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover Scout

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    Yeah the budget constraints were rough. Great side overall though!
  8. Feb 23, 2018
    #8

    Theon Full Member

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    Yeah the Dutch trio up front is lovely. The different generations thing was purely coincidental, we were actually considering Blokhin for the other wide forward spot (would have been absolutely tailor made for a Cruyff homage side as a wing forward) but ultimately decided to go balls-deep on the Dutch theme and take Wilkes. He's due a good draft tournament and fits the theme beautifully, Cruyff's idol growing up and scored 35 goals in 38 games for the Dutch national side. There's also a few sources which state he won the Player of the Year in Spain in '54 (when players like Di Stefano and Kubala were in their pomp) which is no mean feat.

    Fully disagree on Burgnich though I do get what you're saying. In a total football system he does look a bit weird but he was one of the priority players for us when we decided to fully build round Koeman in defence. As a defensive, tucked in right back for me he's the very best in the business and he has previous success playing a similar role with Grande Inter. He's no artist on the ball (but frankly we can cope with that given the abundance of ball playing ability oozing out of the rest of the side) and being comfortable at centre back was a nice, no nonsense bonus to cover Koeman if he pushes up.

    Against this set up he's actually pretty grand, as he can almost play as a third centre back at times to help deal with Moby's centrally orientated/narrow attack.
  9. Feb 23, 2018
    #9

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Portrait of an icon: Johan Cruyff

    [​IMG]


    “Right now, I have the feeling that I am 2-0 up in the first half of a match that has not finished yet. But I am sure I will end up winning” – Johan Cruyff, February 2016.

    There is something deeply moving about a former great describing his battle against a life-threatening illness in football terms. Analogising lung cancer with a 90-minute match is Cruyff’s way of normalising something unreasonable and inhumane. This is a reminder that sport is no barrier or comfort blanket against the travails of life. Cruyff’s immortal status within the game counts for little outside football’s bubble.

    Cruyff’s words also reveal a mind still obsessed by the game; as if football’s greatest thinker was ever likely to switch off. There is an accusation that the Dutch master has become sour and jaded in his older age, angry at Ajax’s fall into corporate entity and Netherlands’ pragmatic style. Cruyff’s persona occasionally slips from mournful into bitter, but he will forever be worth listening to.

    ‘Philosophy’ has become a hackneyed word in sport, a handy euphemism for any idea or strategy beyond the short term, but Cruyff is a football philosopher in the truest sense of the word. He could talk for hours about a topic as simple as the timing of a run or the weight of a pass. All killer, no filler, just an expert allowing thoughts to tumble out of his brain.

    Former Dutch teammate Marco van Basten has his own theory on why Cruyff became such a student of the game: “Johan is so technically perfect that even as a boy he stopped being interested in that aspect of the game. That’s why he’s been very interested in tactics since he was young. He sees football situations so clearly that he was always the one to decide how the game would be played.”

    It is a fascinating view, that Cruyff ‘completed’ the game by any normal expectation. He reconsidered the ideals of how the entire sport could and should be played as a means of challenging himself. While the rest work on improving their game, the best work on improving the game.

    As much as you can be born into a club, Cruyff and Ajax were forever destined to be as one. Born five minutes from the stadium, the young Cruyff played on streets near the ground. After the death of father, his mother began working as a cleaner at the club, and his eventual stepfather worked as an assistant groundsman. Johan joined the club as a ten-year-old, and made his debut aged 17.

    In isolation, Cruyff and Ajax coach Rinus Michels would have achieved greatness; together they achieved miracles. In eight seasons as a mainstay in Ajax’s first team, Cruyff won six Eredivisie titles, four KNVB Cups and three consecutive European Cups. He scored 250 goals before following Michels to Barcelona for a world-record fee. After winning three consecutive Ballon D’Ors, Cruyff promptly helped to end their 14-year wait for a league title.

    The only thing that eluded Cruyff was the 1974 World Cup, a loss to West Germany that scarred a nation. The player himself has a typically philosophical take on the defeat: “We showed the world you could enjoy being a footballer; you could laugh and have a fantastic time. I represent the era which proved that attractive football was enjoyable and successful, and good fun to play too.” Nobody remembers the losers? Pah.

    Cruyff certainly had the technical ability to give credence to Van Basten’s assessment. He made football look easier than any European before him, the difference-maker in three of the most attractive teams in the game’s history – Ajax 66-73, Barcelona 74-76 and Netherlands 1974. The combination of speed, touch, poise and vision was almost impossible to defend against, and even harder to dislike. If Pele ruled the 1960s and Diego Maradona the 1980s, the decade in between belonged to Cruyff.

    Yet technical ability was only ever part of the story with someone who placed far greater importance on a footballer’s brain than his body. Cruyff was obsessed by immeasurables such as timing and vision, rejecting the use of statistics in sport: “My qualities are not detectable by a computer.”

    Most importantly, Cruyff believed in simplicity: “Simple play is also the most beautiful. How often do you see a pass of forty meters when twenty meters is enough?” he once said. “To play well, you need good players, but a good player almost always has the problem of a lack of efficiency. He always wants to do things prettier than strictly necessary.”

    Cruyff’s simplicity is often misrepresented. He did not mean that players should only choose the easiest option, but that the choice should be made to attain the best expected result.

    Take his own Cruyff turn, for example. This feint was neither carried out to embarrass Sweden’s Jan Olsson nor to excite the watching crowd, but because Cruyff estimated that it was the simplest method (in terms of effort and risk vs expected result) to beat his opponent.

    It is no surprise that Cruyff welcomes the comparison with his own preferred style of football and choreography. When in 2008 the English National Ballet announced a new work which interpreted 10 great footballing moments through the medium of dance, his turn against Sweden was the stand-out choice.

    [​IMG]

    If Cruyff’s belief in simplicity became a theme during his playing career, it came to define him as a coach. His vision of football, an evolution of Rinus Michels’ own totaalvoetbal, was based on a simple concept: Keep the ball when you have it, get the ball back as soon as possible when you don’t.

    “If you have the ball you must make the field as big as possible, and if you don’t have the ball you must make it as small as possible,” Cruyff said. Every player was expected to be comfortable in the role of playmaker. This was football created in his own image: Cruyff the Redeemer.

    Taking Michels’ own style, Cruyff super-charged it. The football world soon realised that Cruyff hadn’t just been playing the game, but absorbing it. His understanding of the game’s minutiae was (and still is) unsurpassed. The scholar was ready to show off exactly what he’d learned.

    There is now an ideological battle between aesthetics and pragmatism in football. Does winning matter most, or does entertainment matter more? The holy grail makes the question and argument redundant, by harmonising both ideals.

    “With him, as well as with me, results may have come first, but quality of soccer was No 1.” Cruyff said of his mentor Michels upon his death in 2005. “Just winning is not enough.” Both coaches found the perfect blend of football romance and pragmatism. If you can’t win, then entertain. If you can’t entertain, then at least win.

    Part of Cruyff’s coaching success came through sheer imagination. Football was a game of endless possibilities, limited only by the restrictions coaches placed on their own teams. Starting at Ajax, he changed their formation to 3-4-3 in order to add support to the attack, and preached the idea of possession as king.

    “It’s a basic concept: when you dominate the ball, you move well,” Cruyff said. “You have what the opposition don’t, and therefore they can’t score. The person that moves decides where the ball goes, and if you move well, you can change opponents’ pressure into your advantage. The ball goes where you want it.”

    At Barcelona, Cruyff perfected this art. He won four league titles and the European Cup in 1992. He also inspired the tiki-taka style that has become entwined with the club’s most successful era. Whereas Michels’ totaalvoetbal relied on players interchanging positions, Cruyff’s strand made the ball do the work.

    “As a player he turned football into an art form,” says former Barcelona president Joan Laporta. “Johan came along and revolutionised everything. The modern-day Barca started with him, he is the expression of our identity, he brought us a style of football we love.”

    It is no coincidence that Cruyff’s two natural homes – Ajax and Barcelona – have the most iconic youth academies in world football, and his longest-lasting legacy at the Camp Nou came away from the first team. He was an advocate of football as education. Total Football was not a style of play learned in first-team training sessions, but a way of life.

    The logic is clear: If young players are already accustomed to the style and demands of the first team’s tactics, they have a greater chance of making the grade. It may seem foolish now, but Barcelona were filtering out hopefuls according to physical attributes rather than technical ability. Something had to give, and Cruyff’s request for a new academy system was accepted by president Josep Lluis Nunez. La Masia was born.

    “Johan Cruyff built the cathedral, our job is to maintain and renovate it,” said Pep Guardiola when taking over at Barcelona. The La Masia graduate became head coach in 2008. By 2010, all three Ballon D’Or finalists (Andres Iniesta, Xavi and Lionel Messi) had come through the system.

    La Masia was Cruyff’s masterpiece, his Sistine Chapel. No Cruyff, no Guardiola. No Cruyff, no Xavi. No Cruyff, no Iniesta. No Cruyff, no Messi. No Cruyff, no Busquets. No Cruyff, no dynasty.

    The hyperbolic tendency is to state that Cruyff invented modern football, but that is not true. There is no one forefather of any of football’s great movements. Michels took his influences from Hungary and Brazil, Cruyff took his from Michels, Guardiola in turn from Cruyff. Yet the effect Cruyff had, and the legacy he left at Ajax and Barcelona, makes him the game’s most influential individual of the last 40 years. His methods led the European football Renaissance.

    “In a way I’m probably immortal,” Johan Cruyff once said, never one for false modesty. As his open-heart surgery and continued fight against cancer indicates, mortality is inescapable. Yet that only makes our legacy more important. In purely football terms, Cruyff will never die. No ‘probably’ required.



    Daniel Storey

    http://www.football365.com/news/portrait-of-an-icon-johan-cruyff

    Caf threads on Cruyff with some great posts:

    http://www.redcafe.net/threads/johan-cruyff-1947-2016.415918/

    http://www.redcafe.net/threads/johan-cruyff-r-i-p.415920/

    http://www.redcafe.net/threads/f365-portrait-of-an-icon-johan-cruyff.414756/

    http://www.redcafe.net/threads/johan-cruyff.253247/
  10. Feb 23, 2018
    #10

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Came across this video posted by @Ecstatic in one of his games which shows the type of pressure that was put on opponents:

  11. Feb 23, 2018
    #11

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    total football :drool:
    Not sure Burgnich is a good fit for the philosophy and i dont know much about Kuznetsov, what type of player he was?
  12. Feb 24, 2018
    #12

    BeforeKeanetherewasRobson Full Member

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    @2mufc0 ... that's not a post, that's an essay! Like the video about the pressing though.... almost looks like a kids game where they all run after the ball?

    How'd you see your defence matching up against that front two? Particularly Greaves (superb forward).
  13. Feb 24, 2018
    #13

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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    Did Gullit ever play Left IF? I always thought he was a right sided player.
  14. Feb 24, 2018
    #14

    BeforeKeanetherewasRobson Full Member

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    I'd assumed it would've been Cruyff - Wilkes - Gullit
  15. Feb 24, 2018
    #15

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    its total football, positions as such dont really matter its what a certain player offers on the pitch and Gullit is a perfect match that wise.
  16. Feb 24, 2018
    #16

    Theon Full Member

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    He could play anywhere but his best position would be as a secondary forward.

    In terms of your question, Gullit is not playing as a left sided player - the graphic is a nominal position on a team sheet but we've been clear in the tactics and comments that this is a total football set up. Gullit will roam across the park, drop deeper and push up front when Cruyff either peels to the left or drops back to instigate the game. Like any system based on this style there would be a huge amount of fluidity between all the players - that's probably the key trait of the entire tactic.

    So just to give an example, it wouldn't be a surprise if during the game Van Hanegem peeled out to the left, Cruyff dropped deeper to pick up possession and Gullit moved up top. All three of those players regularly did those things.

    Nah, Wilkes was an inside right forward and Cruyff would always be central in this set up. He is the most important player.
  17. Feb 24, 2018
    #17

    idmanager Full Member

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    I dont think there is a place for a player as static as Burgnich in total football. He is the epitome of how a total football player should not look. The Koeman covering thing is just playing safe in draft conventions, which is against the principles of TF. Hope he is replaced going forward. Even though he is a class defender, in a system like this, I could see him being the reason for leaking goals and sometimes killing build up from the back.

    Rest of it looks class.

    Would like a long post about Wilkes rather than Cryuff who we have read enough of.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  18. Feb 24, 2018
    #18

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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    Honestly I don't think Gullit is a fit here. He's one of my favorite player and one of the few I've watched more than others, but still I don't recall seeing him operate left of the box at all. Center or right is all I can recollect. His ability is to drop back and add to midfield or move up to bulldoze defenders, but I really can't see him add value in this role. Despite position on team sheet, Cruyff - Gullit -Wilkes is how I see this. I can buy him more in a F9 role than this. You need some to drift left and pull defenders wide and Cruyff is better than Gullit at that.
  19. Feb 24, 2018
    #19

    Theon Full Member

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    Cheers.

    Picking Burgnich certainly wasn’t playing safe in draft conventions. He was picked because he’s arguably the best ever in a hybrid CB-RB role covering an offensive libero.

    He doesn’t fit the total football ethos in the sense that he’s not a great passer, but meh I’m not really arsed about that as there’s a whole host of excellent passers in that team.

    He does fit the total football ethos in the sense that he can play multiple positions. That’s one of the signatures of the style and his ability to drop into centre back if Koeman moves forward fits nicely imo.
  20. Feb 24, 2018
    #20

    idmanager Full Member

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    Have to disagree there.

    Burgnich could play multiple positions but not at the same time. You need to be capable of doing that all at the same time in total football in a system with so much quick transition.

    Grande Inter was a super slow system and total football is super fast. He could afford the time to be static and adjust his position in the former, he cant in the latter.

    I would be happy to agree to disagree, but Burgnich doesn't work here IMO. Cheers.
  21. Feb 24, 2018
    #21

    Arbitrium Taking a year off

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    2mufc0 and Theons team has too many question marks as a unit able to play total football where as moby has built a brick wall very few teams in history would break down.

    @Moby team wins this 1-0 every day of the week.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  22. Feb 24, 2018
    #22

    idmanager Full Member

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    FYI, he never played that role in reality. Picchi was not a libero. Not to say he can't, but to say he is the best ever for covering an offensive libero has no proof in reality to stand on and is pushing it. Its another one of the accepted roles for him in drafts though.
  23. Feb 24, 2018
    #23

    Theon Full Member

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    Disagree with this, the Catenaccio system was based on the RCB moving between the right back and centre back position so there’s no distinction there. Herrera’s system was also heavily based around man marking and players would often move around with Picchi the only one maintaining his role in behind.

    Agree the Dutch and Catenaccio systems were stylistically very different but both did use quick transitions. Catenaccio was a deep and defensive set up but one of its themes was breaking quickly (one of the reasons Suárez was moved deeper was to launch these counter attacks).

    Yes, you’re definitely right here that the style of Koeman and Picchi was different. That’s spot on. The comment that Burgnich is one of the best ever at covering a libero was based on his ability to move between CB and RB in that Inter set up, as well as his history playing as a central defender and even a sweeper. So I still think that Burgnich is the gold standard when it comes to defensive right backs looking to tuck inside. There’s only really Bergomi I’d put on that level.
  24. Feb 24, 2018
    #24

    idmanager Full Member

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    And Gentile
  25. Feb 24, 2018
    #25

    Theon Full Member

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    Personally never rated Gentile quite as highly as an actual defender, but he is indeed a great fit for the system and played a similar role at club and international level.
  26. Feb 24, 2018
    #26

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    It's a tasty total voetbal homage 2mufc and Theon have put together. Like @Edgar Allan Pillow I'm not sold on Gullit on the left and would prefer him either centrally or on the right, but as a second striker bustling around Cruyff it's more plausible. I get the concerns around Burgnich and can see him interrupting the flow of the build up at times. And that plays into Moby's hands not having to be too concerned about build up from the RB position with the 3-5-2. Still it's useful to have a proper defender in there.

    Really like Moby's team too, tactically it's flawless. I probably rate Mackay, Blanchflower and Greaves higher than most, and could see the midfield duo putting together a solid resistance effort to support their stacked defence, with Greaves' pace and finishing presenting problems for the opposition central defence. Rummenigge too with his presence and right-sided inclination could be a threat in behind Chagas.

    Ultimately would see 2mufc0 dominating the ball and territory, with Moby looking threatening on the break. Hard one to split.
  27. Feb 24, 2018
    #27

    sincher "I will cry if Rooney leaves"

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    Voted Moby but Ferri again? The original og gangster.
  28. Feb 24, 2018
    #28

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Hi mate, I did that because Cruyff is the best player on the pitch and I expect him to have a great game here.

    As for Wilkes see the article:

    FAAS WILKES

    Faas Wilkes (1923-2006) was Johan Cruyff's favourite footballer. And yet outside the Netherlands and Valencia few people have ever heard of him.

    The football encyclopaedia on my desk describes him, in its best Wolstenholmian prose, as tall, lean, splendidly gifted inside-forward with dazzling close control and a strong shot. He was, if the evidence of this clip was anything to go by, a mean dribbler although he does look a bit gormless facing the camera.

    Like Cruyff in the early 1970s, Wilkes was not content to be the best in Dutch club football. He was one of the first Dutch players to become an idol overseas, dazzling for Valencia from 1953 to 1956 even though he was already 30 when he joined them. His path to the top has since been well trodden by the likes of Cruyff, Neeskens, Kluivert and Sneijder.

    Wilkes paid a price for his determination: at that time, the KNVB refused to select players for the national team who played professionally abroad. If it hadn't been for that policy, he would surely have won far more than 38 caps. He scored 35 goals in those games, including four on his debut against Luxembourg and was the all-time top scorer for Holland until Dennis Bergkamp surpassed him in 1998.

    Wilkes, his international team-mate and inside forward Kees Rijvers, and striker Bertus de Harder who looks uncannily like Arjen Robben’s granddad all left Holland to progress. Rijvers and Harder went to France, a career move that is almost unimaginable today. Rijvers later won the UEFA Cup as PSV coach in 1978.

    Wilkes decision to play overseas didn't stop him becoming a legend in his home city Rotterdam. The ultimate accolade for a successful sportsman from the home of Feyenoord (and Xerxes, the club he played for) is to be given the Faas Wilkes award.

    Wilkes Wikipedia page suggests that he, along with his peers Kick Smit and Abe Lenstra, inspired the Dutch cartoon character Kick Wilstra, a wonder centre forward as he is billed on his official site. With Lenstra and Rijvers, Wilkes formed the Golden Inside Trio, a pack of three inside forwards who, in the 1940s and 1950s, gave Dutch youngsters like Cruyff hope that their footballer wouldn't always be mediocre. You can find their stats here and Wilkes own game-by-game record here.

    Inside forwards don't exist anymore, not in the old sense of attackers who would slot in on either side of the centre forward, between the main striker and the wingers. Their days were numbered as soon as European football began its gradual, irreversible shift away from 2-3-5 “ now there's an obsolete formation I'd love to see Otto Rehhagel reintroduce with Greece“ and from its successor WM where the inside-forwards played behind the wingers and the number-nine.

    But Wilkesfame has outlived his old position. In a recent fans all-time Dutch XI he was in the squad, alongside Lenstra, and one fan suggested he looks like Ossie Ardiles twin brother. Actually, to me he looks more like the long lost brother of Andy Roxburgh.

    If he'd played a decade or so later, he might be as famous as Cruyff. But when he died, two years ago, at the age of 82, one Dutch fan broke into a gaming forum to announce that Faas Wilkes, our first great footballer, died today.

    Which, coming from an Amsterdammer, was some compliment.


    Read more athttps://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/criminally-underrated-faas-wilkes#c78QTUGsOXmumx3E.99
  29. Feb 24, 2018
    #29

    idmanager Full Member

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    You don't need to justify mate. Asked coz I know shit about Wilkes :D

    Thanks for sharing. Reading now.
  30. Feb 24, 2018
    #30

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    cheers for the feedback. As you probably know Gullit is one of the most comple attackers ever able to play across the whole front line, it’s one of the reasons we spent a large chunk of our budget on him.

    But like Sjor said, this system is built around idea of players switching positions and finding ways to inlfluence the game. Gullit won’t be spending all of the game on the left, it’s not the way the system works. Nevertheless we could have easily depicted him on right or in the centre on the formation sheet without disrupting the team setup. So it’s not critical.
  31. Feb 24, 2018
    #31

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Cheers Sjor, Kuznetsov was one of the best defenders for the USSR at the time, he’s best known for his international career where he got the Euro final in 1988 but was unfortunately suspended for the final. He played most of his club career for Dynamo Kiev winning the cup winners cup in 86 he got a move to Rangers but due to a terrible knee injury in his first few games he never settled there and moved back to Dynamo Kiev for the end of his career, finished 11th and 17th in the Ballon d'Or in his peak years. As for style he was classy, good on the ball and would fit into the system, he was also solid defensively and physically strong and decent pace.

    Tried searching for some YouTube vids for him but could only find one compilation, however there are full games of USSR in that period if you search under his name.

    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  32. Feb 24, 2018
    #32

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    what type of player he was? Sweeper, stopper, complete defender? Rijsbergen had a great tournament and a very important role for them and that role is even more important with Koeman in the side who adds another dimension in possession but isnt the best defensive wise, specially for this level.
    Maybe @harms can help :)
  33. Feb 24, 2018
    #33

    Theon Full Member

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    Koeman is better defensively than Haan who played as the sweeper in that ‘74 side. I get that it was Koemans ball-playing ability that makes him one of the great defenders, but he was a one-man back line at times under Cruyffs 3-4-3 system.

    In addition to Koeman being better than Haan defensively he also has a far more stable defensive presence on his right hand side than Haan did. We’ve took a lot of flak (over the top imo) for Burgnich’s dilution of the possession-based style, but the counter to that (and the whole reason he’s in the side) is his defensive presence.

    Happy to let @harms or @Gio (given he played for Rangers) expand on Kuznetsov but from my perspective he was a balanced and well rounded defender.
  34. Feb 24, 2018
    #34

    harms Way Staff

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    A stopper, big, physical, smart and very tough. Good fit for the theme, given his ties with Lobanovsky. In big games he often played against the star forward — van Basten, Vialli, Papin etc. @Gio can help me here too, I guess, as he played for Rangers.

    Had a great duel with van Basten in 1992. Kuznetsov started the game with a bandaged knee, in his usual fashion — a few knocks on MvB; after 5 minutes van Basten came to him and said that if he won't stop, he'll kick him in the bandaged knee :lol: (he stopped, although he managed to stop van Basten from scoring, the game ended 0:0)
  35. Feb 24, 2018
    #35

    Arbitrium Taking a year off

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    Don’t see the problem with Gullit personally, as 2mufc says he’s one of the most complete attackers ever and it’s not hard to buy in to him being effective here.

    The trouble for him and the rest of that team is that mobys back 5 is a perfect kryptonite to total football. The midfield battle is almost redundant, and I’m backing the purest goalscorer in greaves to decide the game.
  36. Feb 24, 2018
    #36

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    The level of play is much higher here so while i agree Koeman is better then Haan in every possible way when it comes to playing in defence that means very little in this specific scenario where they face Kalle, Greaves and Hagi.
    I didnt say Koeman is a liability nor that he would cost you guys the game, just said that Kuznetsov will have to do a damn good job because the role he is playing was played at great level in the original team.

    PS: harms posted in the meantime, looks like a great fit. Will have to think about it a bit more before i decide though...
  37. Feb 24, 2018
    #37

    harms Way Staff

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  38. Feb 24, 2018
    #38

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Bessonov libero? :D Surely some lost translation...
  39. Feb 24, 2018
    #39

    harms Way Staff

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    Nah, he played there at some point. Not frequently.
  40. Feb 24, 2018
    #40

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    2 strong teams and set up very well. I really like Moby's team - that 5-3-2 looks mint and he managed to get some real coups under the radar at late to build that attack - Hagi, Kalle and Greaves looks great both stylistically and also in terms of quality.

    Moby's defensive line also looks unbeatable on paper with Krol, Baresi, Ferri starring through the lines and two excellent wing backs in Zanetti and Demyanenko.

    On the other hand 2mufc0/theon have an awesome midfield and most likely would control the game with Cruyff as their star man - always bound to cause trouble.

    Will mull over a bit on this one...