Auction-Trade Madness Draft - R1: Oaencha vs Raees/Invictus

Discussion in 'Draft Games Forum' started by Edgar Allan Pillow, Mar 1, 2018.

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With players at career peaks, who will win the match?

Poll closed Mar 2, 2018.
  1. Team Oaencha

    40.6%
  2. Team Raees/Invictus

    59.4%
  1. Mar 1, 2018
    #1

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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    [​IMG] VS [​IMG]
    ....................................... TEAM OAENCHA .................................................................................... TEAM RAEES/INVICTUS ..................................

    TEAM OAENCHA

    We are set up in an attacking 4-3-3 formation with a focus on getting the ball to the devastating trio of Messi, Batistuta and Neymar. I’m going to keep the write up simple but will be here to elaborate and answer any questions.
    • Messi and Neymar both have free roles on the flanks and will be supported by Suurbier and Maxwell.
    • Netzer will collect the ball from deep and push forward, utilising his exceptional passing skills to create chances for the attack.
    • Albertini is playing as a deep playmaker but will drop back to help defend when the team is under pressure.
    • Couto, Vidic and Gattuso will form ‘The triangle of hard bastards’ and give Pele, Kubala and Nordahl as little time and space as possible.
    TEAM RAEES/INVICTUS

    • Formation: 4-3-1-2 that can split wider as a Christmas Tree, of sorts, if need be.
    • Ideology: Fairly direct and robust given the nature of attack, but with the nous to control possession to stifle the game.

    Neuer
    is one of the best keepers in the draft and of all time. Given his trademark style of play in terms of using his feet in the build-up phase or launching counters with his hands, he can be the ideal genesis of several attacks as well. Puppeteering the slightly staggered defense is perhaps the greatest defensive organizer in all of football - Gatenao Scirea. A couple were marginally better pure defenders in the uppermost echelon of defensive play, others offered more in certain aspects - but none could match Scirea's ability to leave his imprint on the entire structure in inimitable fashion and orchestrate his team from back while boasting GOAT tier defensive nous. To the right of him is former Argentina captain, and one of the great South American defenders - Roberto Perfumo. His modern day equivalent would be someone like Godín - neither pure sweeper nor pure stopper - but somewhere in between - a complete no-frills centerback who had advanced positional awareness, innate leadership qualities and battle-hardy tackling mentality to go with it - forming a formidable bank of two in tandem with Scirea. To the left of Scirea is Christian Panucci - a typically defensively sound Italian fullback on either flank who could also slot in seamlessly at center-half while being tidy on the ball. Panucci will play a slightly reserved game with the freedom to tuck in ever to slightly - which should suit him and help contain the opposition's most prominent offensive threat as well. Will he silence Messi? Of course not, no one could consistently stop Messi in his tracks. However, Panucci's knack for tracking ball-carriers and right-footedness will serve him well vs. left footed Messi as he drifts inwards. Completing the defense is a bona fide X-Factor, Manfred Kaltz - whose crossing threat is perhaps second best to only Beckham down the right - and suits our offensive cast to a tee given their individual and collective prowess in the air as Manny's renowned GOAT-ish level Bananenflanken will add an extra wrinkle to our team composition:
    Patrolling the defensive midfield third is Two Time World Champion, Zito - a precursor to the likes of Makelélé in the post-modern era, Zito was a renowned midfield organizer - with a knack for being in the right place at the right time to mitigate danger as the defensive pivot for Brazil's attacking behemoth as well as Santos' nigh all-conquering '60s team (which is considered by many to be one of the greatest club teams of all time). Pretty much the ideal building block as holding/defensive midfielder for our setup. To the left of him is arguably the finest left-half in football history and the first Eastern European Ballon D'Or winner, Josef Masopust - a dominant force in his half of the field, he will play a big part in our build-up play with his strength in possession, drag markers slightly wider towards his favorite inside and outside left channels (thus providing auxiliary width), and link up with the forwards with his ability to go on surging runs. On the right is arguably the most dynamic and irrepressible box-to-box midfielder since the days of Davids and Keane - Arturo Vidal. An enforcer par supreme, Vidal's infectious energy and drive and ball-winning/pressing ability and verticality is the ideal complement for Masopust and Zito, and his prowess as a supplementary goalscorer should keep should keep the opposition midfielders on edge as well. Also crucial is Vidal's knack for driving onto the outside channels - mirroring Masopust on the left - where Il Guerriero can link up with Kaltz.

    Spearheading the attack is one of the most clinical and brutal classic strikers of all time, record 5 time Serie A Top Scorer as Capocannoniere, the most efficient goalscorer in Serie A ever with 0.77 goals/match, and the highest scorer for Milan to date - Gunnar Nordahl. A behemoth in the opposition box, naturally athletic and quick despite his imposing frame - boasting devastating power and aerial dominance, Nordahl will stretch the field and look to unsettle the defense. In an offset attacker role on to his right is László Kubala:
    And in a free role in the eye of the storm is perhaps the greatest of them all, Pelé - who has the license to pretty much do what his heart desires as an all-encompassing titan in attack, because that would be the best role for him, in our opinion.
  2. Mar 1, 2018
    #2

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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  3. Mar 1, 2018
    #3

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    @Oaencha Albertini and Gattuso should be swapped IMO. Albertini was best as a DLP as well as Gattuso as a defensive B2B - purely for graphic depiction would be better.

    Also how will Netzer and Albertini work together?
  4. Mar 1, 2018
    #4

    Theon Full Member

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    Agreed, that was my initial thought as well.
  5. Mar 1, 2018
    #5

    Oaencha Full Member

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  6. Mar 1, 2018
    #6

    Invictus Best Poster 2015 Staff

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  7. Mar 1, 2018
    #7

    Edgar Allan Pillow Was AFC, likes them hypoallergenic - no feathers Scouse Lover

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    I always thought Panucci's peak was on the right. Against Messi it'll be a mismatch. Except for this it's an exceptional team.

    Gattuso as deepest player also is not optimal. He's an all action midfielder and not really a Desailly type DM to partner with Albertini. Rest are fine against this opponent.
  8. Mar 1, 2018
    #8

    Oaencha Full Member

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    I see where you’re coming from but as mentioned in the write up Albertini is playing as a DLP and will drop back (arrows) alongside Gattuso when the team is under pressure. I placed Gattuso deeper in this match because of his engine and closing down skills. I feel he will be needed more in front of Couto and Vidic than in central midfield due to the threat of Pelé.

    Netzer and Albertini are both different types of playmakers and should compliment each other well. Albertini is more defensive minded and will be pulling the strings in our half. Netzer will drive the ball forward, supplying the attack.
  9. Mar 1, 2018
    #9

    Oaencha Full Member

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    Personally, I thought Albertini’s skillset was similar to Pirlo; deep playmaker, great passing skills, dictated the tempo of the game. Gattuso and Pirlo were a great combo for Milan and this is what I was going for.
  10. Mar 1, 2018
    #10

    Raees Legal Guardian of the Football forums

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  11. Mar 1, 2018
    #11

    Invictus Best Poster 2015 Staff

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    Panucci was very comfortable on the left-flank, mate. Like a lot of Italian defenders through the years (Gentile being one of the more prominent examples - initially starting out as a leftback under Trapattoni's management), he could play all across the defense (specializing as a fullback). You're correct in that he played on the right for the most part, but that element of versatility should serve us well in a one-off match. For reference, Capello had no qualms putting him on the left vs. Barcelona in a Champions League final:

    [​IMG]

    As a right footed player, we feel he'll be a better fit vs. Messi (who'll cut inwards with his left foot) than Gordillo.
  12. Mar 1, 2018
    #12

    Oaencha Full Member

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    @Raees @Invictus

    I really like the look of your team; you’ve both done a good job. I’m struggling to find much to nitpick about but why is Panucci on the left? I always thought he was a bit underrated but also a CB/RB. I can’t ever remember him playing on the left.
  13. Mar 1, 2018
    #13

    Arbitrium Supposed to be taking a year off

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    Albertini- My hero

    I can’t remember which point of the season it was, but Atletico v Real Madrid in the 02/03 season is one of my life’s most hilarious moments.

    We were 16/17 at the time and my mates had started gambling. One in particular had an 8 game accumulator on that weekend and had £50on it. He had 7 results in already, and he had Real Madrid to win this game. Then Albertini does this in the 96th minute, to draw it level. Athletico hadn’t looked threatening at all, and my mate had been talking about hiring a helicopter to fly him away for a holiday in Spain. Had Albertini not scored, my mate would have won £17000. Oh, how we laughed.

  14. Mar 1, 2018
    #14

    Oaencha Full Member

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    I guess that has answered my question! Still feel it’s incredibly risky putting him up next to a GOAT though.
  15. Mar 1, 2018
    #15

    Arbitrium Supposed to be taking a year off

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    I’ve seen this argument a few times, but it’s really a non point. Messi will just go around the outside at will against Panucci.
  16. Mar 1, 2018
    #16

    Oaencha Full Member

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    @Raees @Invictus

    I can’t find anything about it in your write up but are any of your players man marking or specifically tracking Messi, Batistuta, Neymar or Netzer?
  17. Mar 1, 2018
    #17

    Oaencha Full Member

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    @Arbitrium

    That’s a horrific but pretty funny story. Does that mean you have un unconscious (or conscious) loathing of Albertini?
  18. Mar 1, 2018
    #18

    Invictus Best Poster 2015 Staff

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    Only Messi is individually marked, rest is zone - and we feel that Scirea is perfect to engineer that scheme.

    GAETANO SCIREA

    [​IMG]

    Serie A (7): 1974/75, 1976/77, 1977/78, 1980/81, 1981/82, 1983/84, 1985/86
    UEFA Cup (1): 1976/77
    Coppa Italy (2): 1978/79, 1982/83
    UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1983/84
    UEFA Super Cup (1): 1984
    European Cup (1): 1984/85
    Intercontinental Cup (1) : 1985
    World Cup (1): 1982
    World Cup (Fourth place): 1978
    Ideal World Cup Team: 1982
    UEFA European Championship Team of the Tournament: 1980
    Italian Football Hall of Fame

    Gaetano Scirea is one of the best defenders the world has ever seen, and the best defender of the World in the 1st half of the 1980s. Though paradoxically, he is also one of the most underrated footballers of all-time. An impeccable defender first and foremost, he also boasted great vision and ball controlling skills and tactical ability, played the sweeper, or libero, role for most of his career, and contributed to the development of this position initiated by Franz Beckenbauer in the 1970s. Considered a legend of Italian football, he played most of his career with Juventus, club with which he conquered 7 times the Serie A, 2 times the Coppa Italia, 1 UEFA Cup, 1 UEFA Super Cup, 1 European Cup and 1 Cup Intercontinental. Endowed with extraordinary defensive qualities and a large number of tactical and technical resources, he also possessed a formidable reading of the game and a great handling of the times for the mark and the interception of balls. With Italy he was protagonist of the World Cups of 1978 and 1982, in this last tournament winning the title and being selected in the ideal team of the competition. In the latter parts of his career, Scirea played a more defensive central-defender role, which he excelled at just the same. Also renowned for his disciplinary acumen, he was never sent-off or suspended in his career.


    http://www.thehardtackle.com/2014/gaetano-scirea-a-forgotten-legend/


    ROBERTO PERFUMO

    [​IMG]

    Argentine League (1): 1966
    Copa Libertadores (1): 1967
    Intercontinental Cup (1): 1967
    Mineiro Championship (3): 1972, 1973, 1974
    Taça Minas Gerais (1): 1973
    Metropolitan Championship (2): 1975, 1977
    National Championship (1): 1977

    El Mariscal (Eng: The Marshal) Roberto Perfumo was one of the best central defenders in the world in late 1960s and is one of the most underrated defenders overall. Perfumo was a tough defender in both ground and aerial game. He also had a great in technical function and is very good in ball passing. During his career with Racing club, El Grafico rate him in twice world-class seasons in the late-60s. Afterwards, he was signed for Cruzeiro in Brazil and stay there for full 3 seasons prior to back to his country with River Plate and El Grafico rate him in the first season there. With Argentina, he was a bulwark of the squads that appeared in the World Cups of 1966 and 1974. Perfumo totally played for Argentina for a decade and retired his career at 36 years old.
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2002/may/19/worldcupfootball2002.football2
    https://as.com/diarioas/2016/01/04/english/1451939318_274456.html
  19. Mar 1, 2018
    #19

    Arbitrium Supposed to be taking a year off

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    No, he's a hero. I actually just posted that link to my mates facebook page, just to remind him.

    I went with invictus/raees here because i don't rate maxwell, vidic and couto as a defensive unit. It would be a close game and i think messi embarrasses panucci all game but just give the edge to them.
  20. Mar 1, 2018
    #20

    Oaencha Full Member

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    I’m actually pretty surprised and that gives me a pretty big advantage in attack.

    Scrirea and Perfumo are going to be busy with Batistuta.

    Panucci doesn’t stand a chance against Messi so trying to mark him seems a bit pointless.

    If Kaltz isn’t marking Neymar he’s going to get turned inside out.

    I thought Zito would be picking up Netzer because his passing skills make him a big threat if unchecked.
  21. Mar 1, 2018
    #21

    Pat_Mustard Full Member

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    A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
    :lol: That is fecking brutal!
  22. Mar 1, 2018
    #22

    Oaencha Full Member

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    Fair enough! I value your imput. Does it make any difference to your view knowing that Neymar, Batistuta and Netzer are not being man-marked/tracked?
  23. Mar 1, 2018
    #23

    Arbitrium Supposed to be taking a year off

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    I really don't rate neymar that highly to be honest (maybe because i think he's a little prick) and his best performances for barca came when messi was missing.

    its close margins.
  24. Mar 1, 2018
    #24

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    I really like your attack mate. Think it's pretty well constructed and Netzer pulling the strings without a designated #10 is as good as it gets.

    It's fine margins for me and I rate Raees/Invictus defence couple of notches above, considering also Neuer at goal.

    Going with Invictus/Raees due to the defence and Pele having a great game here, but will follow the discussion closely.
  25. Mar 1, 2018
    #25

    Oaencha Full Member

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    Thank you, I appreciate your imput. I would rate my defence slightly weaker but Preud'homme was an exceptional keeper and there really isn’t that much between Panucci/Kaltz and Suurbier/Maxwell. Especially as Panucci/Kaltz are getting directly attacked by Messi/Neymar.
  26. Mar 1, 2018
    #26

    Invictus Best Poster 2015 Staff

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    Mate, let's keep it reasonable, please. :)

    “Doesn't stand a chance”, “get turned inside out” is a bit unbecoming because we can use the same arguments in favor of Pelé, Kubala, Masopust, Nordahl and co. Simply stating that your players are going to man-mark them and claiming the issues are resolved isn't some magical formula that will stop them in their tracks. From a purely objective standpoint, sans bias, I'd say our defense is a tier above as a unit, and it's orchestrated by a pristine defensive general in Scirea (who was renowned for his organisational prowess) - not saying that just to try and win this game, but that would probably be my general assessment as a neutral - and I don't think many would disagree with that, either. Additionally, I reckon the finely balanced midfield setup gives us a very stable buffer zone in both phases of the game. Both teams should be able to create plenty of chances because of the respective Front 4s — Pelé, Kubala, Masopust, Nordahl and Messi, Batistuta, Netzer, Neymar are all very good, but I'd definitely back our defense and midfield to keep a better check on the opposition than vice versa - which is what will ultimately decide the match, IMO.
  27. Mar 1, 2018
    #27

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover Scout

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    I don't like Neymar in an all time side any more than Kane tbh (although I think Neymar has slightly better credentials) but its really hard to look past the Messi-Panucci mismatch. esspeically with Panucci man marking Messi.
  28. Mar 1, 2018
    #28

    Gio 6 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    They're both still writing their story, but that's still harsh on Neymar. In an all-time draft, Kane's body of work outside the English league is almost non-existent. Whereas Neymar has not only done plenty domestically, he also has 53 international goals, a few solid campaigns in the Champions League, a strong World Cup, etc.

    Both Messi and Neymar should have good games here. Equally though so should Pele and Kubala.
  29. Mar 1, 2018
    #29

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover Scout

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    For Neymar its not harsh so much as what I am comparing him to. I'd agree that putting him in the same category as Kane would be harsh but I meant more how unfinished his career is. For me Neymar still needs to prove himself to be at a certain level in a historical sense. If his career ended today for instance, I don't think he has done enough to be ranked historically above a Lato or Rensenbrink for instance.

    Whereas If he produces a really strong World Cup this summer taking Brazil to the final match, produces a compelling performance for PSG either against Real next match or next year then that dramatically increases his historical stock. Or he could flop at the WC and in the CL with PSG the next two years and his historical rank decreases quite a bit. So sure we can rate them based on exactly what they have achieved so far, but its a much more incomplete picture (and possibly wrong due to purple patches or career nadirs) than people in the Godin, Messi age range where we can much more accurately rate their careers.
  30. Mar 1, 2018
    #30

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Neymar has achieved a lot in his short career, strong domestic, CL and WC and he's very likely to end up as Brazil's all time top scorer. He's definitely done a lot more than Kane. Although i do agree he's not top level because of lack of longevity, which will only be resolved with him continuing to play at a high level until he retires.
  31. Mar 1, 2018
    #31

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover Scout

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    How far away from ranking him at Kaka level do you think he is?
  32. Mar 1, 2018
    #32

    harms Way Staff

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    Worked well with another playmaker in Beckenbauer, I guess — but I would've preferred another runner — or an anchorman to move Gattuso higher.
  33. Mar 1, 2018
    #33

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    I like Lato but I think Neymar already has done better than him. Take that WC away from him and I don't think you can compare the two without giving Neymar the edge pretty much everywhere. With Rensenbrink is tough as I probably rate him more than others around here.
  34. Mar 1, 2018
    #34

    Arbitrium Supposed to be taking a year off

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    How do people rate Gattuso?
  35. Mar 1, 2018
    #35

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    But not so well with Overath, albeit for also different reasons apart from purely their style.

    I'd probably have more Real's Breitner type of playmaker to combine with Netzer. At Real Netzer(after the first season) showed great form but as you said I'd probably have someone more mobile midfielder to let him run the game, as between the two Netzer is the main playmaker of the side(not that he can't share).

    With Albertini and Gattuso I'd probably like to see a diamond - Netzer on top, Albertini at the base and flanked by two box to box midfielders - close to the early 00's Milan setup.
  36. Mar 1, 2018
    #36

    harms Way Staff

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    Good but not spectacular. Probably the weakest midfielder on the pitch, although the competition is significant.
  37. Mar 1, 2018
    #37

    Moby Dick who hates the homeless

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    Leo got this.
  38. Mar 1, 2018
    #38

    crappycraperson "Resident cricket authority" Scout

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    Wow.. really bad draw for both teams, 2 of the better sides this draft.
  39. Mar 1, 2018
    #39

    oneniltothearsenal Arse Lover Scout

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    This is where you get unfair 1to1 comparisons due to generations. Lato wasn't allowed by the Polish FA to play abroad until he was 30. Neymar plays in an era where he got into one of the elite 2 teams in the world of this era then went to the richest team ever in history at a young age. Its hard to make a factual comparison with those different circumstances but at the moment I would personally take Lato over Neymar every time.

    Neymar has the opportunity to change my mind in a few weeks and this summer. Until then, its too soon for me to rate him that high historically.
  40. Mar 1, 2018
    #40

    Arbitrium Supposed to be taking a year off

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    @Oaencha dont forget your opposition started with a 2 vote deficit, unless they can clear up the Nilton santos ghost sell mystery.