Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Adisa, Oct 7, 2018.
No, he's also an inside forward. Cuts inside and has a good left foot.
It seemed like they were in pole position to sign him but, pulled out of the deal.
Bayern pays their very agressive policy of stealing any good player in their league for cheap. Bundesliga is getting worst and worst every year. Thanks god Favre is doing a great job in dormund along with Marco Reus being fit for the first time in years. Add the fact that a couple of players are ruling the club (and the german national team), you have a good part of the answer.
Ah okay, I thought he was a left winger rather than right.
I'd have gotten Martial as a Robben replacement. Different side, but not too many players with that kind of pace who can play on the wing and score 15-20 a season.
You have here a good part of the good ole clichées about BM that will never die.
The cherry on top was that the comment came from a PSG fan.
Most of the players you listed, where were they before making the jump to their current clubs? Dybala was in Palermo, Salah in Roma, Mane in Southampton, Sane in Schalke, Mahrez in Leicester, Bernardo at Monaco, Firmino was at Hoffenheim. These are players that would have jumped at the opportunity to play at Bayern at that time if Bayern had shown interest.
There are still many players at the cusp of being the next great thing or players who are stifled at their current clubs City for example, has Sterling, Sane, Mahrez, Bernado for 2 positions, it wont be long before one of them starts pushing for regular playing time. These are the type of deals Bayern does a lot. Good players in bad situations (James, Robben). Werner if he continues to develop, will soon outgrow Leipzig and ripe for Bayern, players like Lozano, Son there are many interesting youngsters like Arp and Havertz
Bayern has a lot of money and if they sense they might be left behind they will splash like the summer they missed CL and got Klose, Ribery and Lucatoni. Bayern is still one of top 7 clubs that are favourite to win the CL and players and coaches who aren't at these 7 clubs will jump at an opportunity to join them.
Yep, I've stated before that Martial would be a great replacement for Ribery. The one thing he is lacking through is the playmaking ability Ribery had.
That's what I meant: They need to develop their players and can't buy finished products, unlike the rest of the absolute top clubs they want to compete against.
They did so in the past and although they made great decisions from a managerial point of view they still were very fortunate that overwhelming majority of these signings as well as their very own youth players developed even better than expected.
I just said that this may be hard to reproduce, after all, because of the luck factor. Especially this philosophy of buying players in difficult situations leads to them playing the second fiddle. Yes, these are very good players but there is a reason James didn't make it at Madrid. And whoever will fall short out of Mahrez, Sane, Sterling, Bernardo Silva etc. will also have done so due to being the worse player, even if only by a small margin. That's what I meant with being lucky with the Robben and Ribery transfers. Nobody expected Ribery to become that good or Robben to overcome his injury problems - which were the only reason Bayern could sign him in the first place. He was a risky signing.
Nowadays every club even top clubs have to develop young players Barcelona is buying Dembele and Malcolm, City is buying Sane and Sterling. Most top teams cannot get ready made players as easily as they used to before that's why Hazard and Lewandoski are not playing in Madrid as we speak.
And those 2nd fiddle players are not all bad, Robben is Bayern's best transfer of the past decade and he was 2nd fiddle, he was choked out by Ronaldo and Kaka. James is a good player probably better than Isco, there are many circumstances that might lead to a player being second fiddle. Alexis(Barcelona), Ozil, DiMaria, Higuain(Madrid) Eto'o was once traded as an add-on. There will always be players who will be in such situations
KdB and Sallah the 2 best players in the EPL were once considered not good enough to even be 2nd fiddle, Pogba Lukaku, Mata also. Martial was close to being traded.
Robben was an exception in that regard. He was always considered a prodigy, possibly the second most talented footballer of his generation but extremely injury-prone. The equivalent would be Hazard if he regularly missed half of the season due to harmstring injuries.
And of course such stories can turn out brillantly, just like Robben who is among the best signings of the last 15 years. But it is no guarantee and Bayern were lucky that these type of transfers turned out so well.
And yes, every club develops their own players nowadays but this also means that Bayern isn't capable of signing the (allegedly) greatest prospects like Mbappe, Dembele or Dybala, Neymar and Hazard back in the day anymore.
I'm not saying they can't be successful anymore. Merely pointing out that their success involved much luck, too, and that this success may be hard to reproduce with the same strategy - especially with Hoeneß in charge.
Was it also luck how Deisler or Götze turned out to be? It's also funny that you drop names like Dembele, Dybala or Hazard in there like they would have been impossible to sign. It's of course hard to get such players but that's more about timing than anything else and why such players ended up at Juve, Dortmund and Chelsea. I have just no idea why you'd think it be impossible for us to sign the "greatest prospects" anymore, especially considering the fact that you drop names only with hindsight.
You also seem to ignore that people like you said EXACTLY the same around 2009/2010 and pretty much every year after that. We are obviously not Real Madrid and won't buy the biggest name in football at the height of his abilities but to say we couldn't attract some of the greatest prospects is just preposterous and blaming it on Hoeneß is actually stupid because he is afterall also responsible for the team that was so successful.
In the end you can always argue that it's hard to reproduce your success if you are at the VERY top but that's saying nothing because it is hard under ANY circumstance, no matter what you do or how much money you have available. Everyone needs that "luck" (just imagine Barca without Messi) but you make it look like Bayern just stumbled into success and that's certainly not true.
What I can point out is that we are in a much stronger position than we were in 2008/2009 before our last big rebuilding of the squad.
PS: Robben was rated highly but imagine how we would talk about him now if he wouldn't have performed for Bayern, it would be a similar story to Götze and people would argue that we were stupid to buy an injury prone Robben who was already on the decline at Real and never showed the necessary output. Most people forget that he was not a very prolific attackers before he joined us, only here he started to become a reliable goal scorer and that in combination with his injury problems is the reason why top clubs weren't all over him when he became available. There is just so much hindsight involved in discussions like this.
Its not that Bayern didnt sign players with great talent. Sanches or Coman come to mind.
Its just not that easy to get the right players at the right time for reasonable money. Sometimes players develop to their full potential, sometimes not.
Coman had too many problems with injuries to show his full potential and Sanches seems not focussed enough to be a world class midfielder.
Of course Bayern is too cautious with its transfers at the moment, but the most hyped players we never signed by Bayern in the past years as well.
Bayern cannot splash cash around like City, PSG or Real do. Its unreasonable to expect Bayern to sign players like Neymar, Mbappe or Dembele.
I don't understand why you are so offended since you basiccaly repeat my arguments. You were lucky with Robben and had bad luck with Götze and Deisler, e.g. My point was that you need to develop talents at an earlier stage than other European top dogs since you can't get them once they are expected to become world beaters. That's what i meant when I named Dybala and Dembele. Of course you could've gotten them before they went to Juve/Dortmund but not afterwards.
I think Götze was an exception by the way. He was on the Mbappe/Dembele level of reputation and you got him nonetheless. Guardiola had a huge effect on your attractiveness IMO.
Ah and I never was one of those who said you couldn't reach the top pre 2008. I was in the other camp and wanted you to accept the globalisation and go for international top players, not just German ones. Thought Ribery, Toni etc. were extremely exciting signings. That's why I mentioned Hoeneß in particular. You know as well that his strategy after his comeback is the exact opposite and focused on Germany alone.
Yet they got two of this tier with Robben and Ribery in the last decade. That's what I meant with 'hard to reproduce' since this undeniably involved a lot of luck. It wasn't meant as criticism by the way, just an observation.
Even these two weren't the hype players at that time. You can complare them with James these days.
Only a few clubs can get players after they have broken out. These days an established talent like current Hazard Mbappe or Dybala will cost >200M, Not many clubs can afford that. Only Barca, PSG Madrid maybe City or Manutd can
Thats why everyone have to dig deep and target less fancied players like Salah Sane, Martial.
Clubs like Bayern, Juventus who are very similar cannot do 200M have to target players who are about to breakout like Dybala, Costa(Bayern) or rejects like Costa(Juve), James, Cuadrado Robben Khedira Mandzukic etc. With these type of signings, Juve and Bayern are still 2 of the most competitive sides in CL since 2013. Almost every year they make the semi until the face Madrid/Barca
Bayern did target Shaqiri, Costa Coman Renato who looked like they were about to breakout also bought supposed established players like Vidal Benatia all non Germans but only Vidal worked out the jury is still out on Tolliso. In another world Shaqiri, Benatia or Costa would have developed to be Salah or Dybala
Transfers are simply luck. Chelsea spent 260M on transfers last season and only Rudiger worked out. Barcelona have spent over a billion in the past decade yet still rely on Messi. Take away Messi from Barcelona today and they will be on the Bayern level just like Madrid is finding life post Ronaldo to be.
Every transfer still has a lot of luck factor involved. There could be injury, hierachy orders clashing with new players, players not feeling comfortable in the new club, the team not working with the new player like they did in his old team and so on. If you buy a boat and run it on a street, you will always be disappointed.
I think in the top 0.5% of clubs and players, it is a lot about mind and not so much any more about skill.
Bayern had a lot of things going for them in the last years. At first they were able to sign Robben and Ribbery, two absolute world class players, Neuer, one of the best goalkeepers, Germany had a flood of talent since 2006 (and since every player in Germany is somehow destined to end up with Bayern) which ended up in their team, so if we call it luck or great work does not matter, they had an amazing team. Now that the sunshine is slowly starting to fade, it will be interesting to see how they will react. I was really surprised that Bayern did not have any great signings in the summer and I am more than interested to see what will happen in the next big transfer window.
It feels that some of the same problems plaguing the German NT is now spilling over to Bayern, namely their overconfidence and arrogance from tasting success and failure to adequately transition from their key players getting old or/and falling out of form.
Lack of competition in the league itself has also masked this problem for a while until this season where Dortmund seems to have rejuvenated ('gladbach doing pretty well too with the 3-0 win at Bayern). Poor managerial pick doesn't help things either.
All in all it seems like Bayern are in for a tough season but at this stage it's not easy to rule out a team of this caliber so let's see what happens.
Uli Hoeneß announced today at their annual meeting, that bayerns supervisory board granted high transfer spendings (without giving numbers) for sommer 2019.
Some rumors going on:
- Ribery and Robben will leave in sommer 2019
- Gnabry is not seen as an regular starter
- Boateng was close to leave last sommer. they are not happy with his performance
- Kovac thinks, Hummels is to slow
- Pavard (vfb stuttgart) already agreed a contract
- James was an ancelotti-transfer. Hey performed very good last season. But he and Kovac may not fit together.
In the last couple of games, they played more of a 4-4-2 (which fits Müller better).
The squad could look 2019/2020 like this:
-----------------Lewy----------------Müller------------------- // Wagner, Gnabry
James(?)--------------------------------------------Coman // Davies
--------------Thiago--------------Goretzka----------------- // Tolisso, Sanches
Alaba---------Süle--------------Pavard-------Kimmich // LB, Hummels, Martinez, Rafinha
-------------------------Neuer---------------------------------- // Ulreich
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Wtf What a random outburst on his official account.
Amazing, when you earn as much as he does, you can still get so angry and say such things, because of what some persons on the Internet say about what you spend on a meal. Personally I'd just order another golden steak.
Let’s start with the jealous, the haters, those clearly born from a condom with a hole in
The lack of mistakes tells me that he didn't wrote it himself.
So many people are saying always that Bayern Munich are such a classy club.
If they are a classy club then they should have sacked Ribery already a few times.
Good for Ribery that he had enough talent for football.....otherwise he would have spent already few years in prison.
Is there any precedent on clubs taking action against players social media posting like this?
Great response .
I mean he's got a point. If the man wants to tuck in to a £1k steak on his holidays, why not? No worse than any other footballer.
Ribery while being the oldest in the team he is also the most childish
Not sure that I’d classify it as “great”. But yeah, each to their own.
The only thing that could have gotten him sacked was slapping a french journalist in the face. Or what instances do you mean?
I mean he‘s obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed.
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A.Pulvar, journalist who criticized Ribery for buying expensive steak, after being criticized for her 3000 euros tortoiseshell glasses: "I can do whatever I want with the money I Earned".
Awaiting the Bayern press conference with Rummenigge citing the ten commandments.
His Instagram post is totally unacceptable.....he represents Bayern Munich. The club gave him a warning after the scandal with the french journalist.
He can pay £100k for a s steak.....the problem is his Instagram post.
If he would be a bit smart then he would have posted a pic with another £1k steak.
She can. One is also an idiot of course to let Luxottica convince you to spend 3000 on a piece of plastic.
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