Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Josep Dowling, Dec 6, 2018 at 20:55.
Spend weeks moaning to bench Lukaku then moan about the fact he's been benched. Brilliant
Kaka at Real Madrid. Bale at Real Madrid
Exactly this. If benching Lukaku makes you toothless up front then there is a serious problem with scouting and recruitment. The exact same thing happened under LVG where we looked toothless without Martial.
This will happen again with the next manager because he'll want to bring in his own players which will lead to a lack of options again because he'll move on players he doesnt want as well.
The last genuine right winger we had was Valencia, there is no one important at the club saying that we have an imbalanced squad. The signs were already there under SAF where we seemed to refuse to get top midfielders in, but because SAF was so brilliant he made Cleverley look like a top midfielder for a season. There are no voices planning the long term structure of the team.
The issue for me is not Mourinho benching the players. If they're not playing well, they deserved to be benched, regardless of price. The issue I have is that Mourinho is failing to get the best out of, not only Pogba and Lukaku, but Fred, Sanchez and Matic - five players he wanted at the club.
Aubameyang went that same season.
I think it's more a moan at the state of Jose transfer activity and how he cannot be trusted in the market. Fred Lukaku and Pogba cost a combined 220-240mill which is astonishing money and should transform your 1st team yet they get kept out by players from Van Gaal era.
Paul Tomkins wrote a book "Pay As You Play" in which he and his co-authors did a detailed study on the success rate of incoming transfers. It was about 50%. For high value transfers it was the same. The extra cash, the more high profile, made no difference, only one in two was a success. Shevchenko and Torres to Chelsea, Andy Carroll to Liverpool, Veron to United etc etc https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004A14TO8/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
Anyone who read the book or does any sort of research into transfers will recognise that there is a huge element of risk involved. Pogba, Lukaku and Sanchez were eventually dropped due to their respective performances, having been given more chances than they deserved.
It is ridiculous to start players simply because they cost a lot. They may be in terrible form. They may not suit the way the manager wants to play against a certain opponent. They may simply be one of the 50% that doesn't work out.
Ignore United for a moment and take a look at other instances of heavy expenditure both in the Premier League and in the top European leagues. Fulham this summer, Everton under Koeman, Milan last season.
No. Don't you have some more copying and pasting you need to do?
They are off form. Off form players should be correctly dropped regardless of price tag. /Close thread
We are Manchester United
Need to make sure our bench is golden
They were deservedly benched, probably months overdue.
Do we just not drop anyone who cost a lot, regardless if they are performing poorly or jogging around, half-arsing it and taking the absolute piss out of the club?
There 2 posts are spot on.
Spending big money on players that don't deliver ( in the interim, and some not even long term) is not new to United and it happened to most of our previous managers at one time or another; its the eye watering amounts involved that take your breath away. Also nowadays you have to question the reasons behind the buys.
Pogba was supposedly bought to give a more creative and dynamic AM presence , Lukaku was bought (allegedly) because we couldn't get Morata ...maybe dodged a bullet there? Bailly and Lindelof supposedly to replace Jones and Smalling although not necessarily first choice CB picks!
Matic bought to add some experience in a mid- field now devoid of Carrick, clearly a stop-gap role, but one that has the "Managers man" on the field. Fred was presumbly bought to shore up the midfield or maybe give an option as a box to box midfielder. Sanchez is a scratch your head buy ?
I would suspect many fans are not happy with the above, not least because despite these buys the team performances appear to be regressing rather than progressing.
How Fred has played so little is certainly bewildering. But Pogba and Lukaku have been poor recently. Pogba just seems like he doesn't want to play another minute under Mourinho, it's painfully clear that he rarely gives it 100% anymore.
Lukaku has just been plain poor and might honestly lack the technical qualities for a striker that should lead the line in the system that we're currently playing in.
It all really boils down to tactics, these players have all been Mourinho's acquisitions and he can't seem to incorporate them into a system that is working. If you look at how well the respective player is performing for their national team it becomes even more clear where the real problem lies.
Different problems need different solutions and there are more players with problems I think.
Lukaku weighs too much, he is fast but does not have fitness for more than a few short runs.
Fred needs to play more matches. Seems to be the same thing that happened to Lindelof during his first year.
Pogba does not work with a coach of the old school. The same thing with Martiall but he seems to have managed to adjust but lost a lot of playing time as a result of it.
Sanchzes simply seems to be unhappy. Do not know what it's all about, but maybe it's a Di Maria problem. He seems soft and may not manage Mourinho's style.
Some of the solutions are quite obvious, others are not.
Your price tag does not determine whether or not you play/start.
I am fine benching Lukaku, he is a useless ogre out there. Pogba should be playing almost every game. Didn't have a good game against Southampton but without his forward passing the team doesn't even come close to getting that draw. No one else is going to attempt the things he does. Does he give the ball away poorly? Does he have a bad attitude in some games? Yeah, but how about putting some actual talent around him in midfield so he doesn't feel like the weight of the entire team is on his shoulders.
He’s failed miserably to get the best out of the players that he signed.Yes,the club should have backed him more last summer and yes,we probably need to appoint a DOF to help the manager from next season.But Mourinho signed 2 Centre backs,3 Central midfielders,2 high profile wingers and one 75 million striker....None of them can be called an unqualified success.Thats why Mourinho needs to go next summer,unless he can win the CL!!
Rio was saying that no manager asked for 5 players and gets all 5 each summer, that's a managers life, and you have you cards and need to get on with them. Also he has signed 4 players in 2018, got Tunzebe, Pereira back from loan but keeps playing Van Gaal players. He is an qualified failure in transfers here. Probably needs a DOF, better scouts and better tactics
So why are we spending record fees on players who lack effort or who are simply not good enough?
At the time there was nothing to suggest that lukaku and Pogba aren't good enough or did not put in the effort.
This is why I don't want him to be given any more transfer budget in January.
His signings have been ranging from average to terrible. Of course, these players could play better under another manager, but that's not the point.
1. It's not yours but our money supply isn't infinite, even a club as big as ours can run into financial trouble in the long run especially if we are not successful so you should really care how our team spends their money.
2. Yes, the money always goes somewhere but again I think this is an exaggeration on here, that every penny we don't spend the Glazers will get their greedy hands on. It's totally possible we can bank a large part of the money an invest it more wisely in infrastructure or sensibly chosen players once a new manager comes in.
3. If we spend overspend on shit players like we usually do he won't.
Sometimes He's Lukaku, sometimes Lukaka and sometimes Lukuku.
And He's the best version of himself when He's Lukaku... and even when that happens He's still no van Nistelrooy.
His system doesn't get the best out of these players at all yet he is trying to shoehorn them into it/moans at them when they don't and benches them. Pogba and Lukaku both have their limitations, that's clear, but they are some of the top players in their position when they're played in the correct manner. Under Jose they're not.
It makes me question his transfer policy a lot since he's been at United. He seems to be buying players that are at the top of their game and are the types of signings which you'd want to make but that's the only reason he buys them. He is buying players on reputation/talent and not how to culminate them into his side.
If they are bought, the MUST play.
This is our fanbase now. Accepting dreadful performances from players because of their price tag.
And Fred 53million wasn't even in squad.
In you think that's the case, then you've completely missed the point of this thread.
When he plays Fred covers more ground than any of our Midfielders. Now there is a big HOLE in the middle of the field. I blame Mourinho for this as he likes to play Matic and an-other just sitting in front of back 4 and there is never anyone to pick up the ball in midfield. This is where other teams always seem to have an advantage and press us backwards.
The DOF and the better scouts can help the next manager....He has to go this summer.We won’t even come close to finishing in the top 4....Unless we somehow manage to win the CL,Mourinho has to leave this summer....
Perhaps you can enlighten those of us who see this thread for what it is?
Meanwhile, let me see if I can enlighten your good self and others about who is buying these expensive players. Mr Edward Gareth Woodward. See, Mourinho only identifies the target, Its Mr EGW who agrees the fee. Some might conclude that after 5 years, hes not actually very good at it, at all. You see, there used to be a saying about judging players by their price tag. Because why would you hold that against the player or the manager when the men in suits are the ones entirely responsible for the fee and the wages?
Now, of course, that is if indeed, the thread isn't about blaming Mourinho for not playing players that have been bought for high fees regardless of their current contribution, attitude and performance level.
So everybody was making fun of Lukaku his bad he is. Now benching him is the problem.
They play if they're in dorm and if they give fek whatever the price. Fred situation is a bit weird though.
The forward slash there means 'end', so you're actually saying "end closing the thread" and thus saying to keep it open.
What you want to use is "[/thread]".
Here you go, some posters have said it perfectly.
Your cynicism aside, I'm well aware that it's Woodward's who brokers the deals, but he does so on the request of Mourinho, because like you said, it's Mourinho that is giving him the list of players he wants here. Now I do agree that Woodward has overpaid some players, but do you think those players could have been bought for far less considering the well known UTD tax, recent market explosion, the profile of our signings? Take Pogba for example, 23 at that time, won everything in Italy, played in both CL final and European championship at that time, plus he was regarded as one of the best MF players back then. Not to mention the fact that Juventus didn't want to sell him and they themselves said it many times they'll only consider a world record fee. Now how much cheaper do you think he could have get him for than those €105M?
So you put the show-pony on the pitch so that our attacks break down in midfield where he spits on us all by holding the ball up to do some tricks for youtube and his sponsors then loses it?
Manwhile, further forward, where the ball ought to have been 5 minutes ago you see Lukaku looking somewhat peeved - yes, he's been starved of supply or, as it's now more commonly known "Pogba'd".
Lukaku has an almost identical shot conversion rate to Kane but Lukaku gets only a small fraction of the service.
Our service is shite and that's evidenced by Lukaku's attempts and therefore his goals reducing since he's been with us - that's a damning fact because who would've expected an Everton front man to get less service up front at Manchester United?
Or should I say, prior to knowing that Mourinho was taking the reigns or that a show-pony like Pogba would be put into midfield to lose the ball before it gets forward, who would've expected?
I honestly don't think that Lukaku's good enough for a top 4 club but I do think that we could get much better from him if we gave him the service he needs to do the job that he's always done. He's not downed tools, he's not sulking, he's not leaking anti-United stuff to the media and he's not sent his agent to ask City if they'll please employ him has he? Nope, that dirty low-down disloyal, unprofessional waster would be Pogba wouldn't it eh?!
So leave Lukaku on the bech and Pot Pogba on the field of play (in the shirt that he doesn't give a shite about) and the teenage Pobga lovers will cream themselves to see a nutmeg or a rare good pass come off once a game while the football supporters amongst us will weep because our disruptive show-pony makes damn sure that we don't play as a team any more.
Benching two players isnt an issue if they dont perform in their positions, why they got to that stage where they should sit on the bench when we paid so much for them should be focus here but instead now we have this "people wanted X to not be in first XI and now its issue that X isnt" which is kinda funny.
This is just ridiculous. Everyone and their dogs wanted Lukaku to be benched. And when he got benched for being in poor form, people "question" manager's decision.
Benching Lukaku isn't the issue... He needs to put a muzzle on the obese shithawk.
No problem with it.
Pogba's been average or below since he came back.
Lukaku is just not doing it.
I genuinely don't know what matches people are watching but, if Pogba has been our best player this season, the problems at the club are far bigger than I could ever imagine.
"He won a World Cup" Yeah and? He didn't win it on his own. Giroud had a very good world cup.
Lukaku, I am baffled by. Never seen a man of his built and size to be bullied this much. Then again, Blind always bullied him
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