Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by SAred, Mar 21, 2009.
Tevez is trouble
Plus Tevez wants to play where Rooney plays and be the main man like Rooney is - never going to happen.
I remember when Shankly paid ₤100,000 for him. At the time, it was a huge fee for a player who wasn't even an England international. Good with his head but useless on the deck.
For me, revisionism has nothing to do with it. I always rated Tevez highly and blamed Fergie and Gill for his loss.
I don't agree that he was mediocre for us. He didn't have a great second season but he was being messed around.
God bless you Moriarty, I've been making this astute comparison for about a year but it falls on wet ears.
Temperamental and stupid, perhaps.
Product of the ghetto, no education, in the hands of people who didn't necessarily have his best interests at heart, comes to a foreign country and fails to learn the language. It was a recipe for trouble certainly.
But he was more sinned against than sinning imo. Properly handled he could have been a great player for us.
EDIT: all water under the bridge; this is the Berbatov thread after all.
Tevez simply isn't that good in terms of technique,vision, pace and finishing. His heyday was at City last year when hustle-bustle was enough to get them a CL place.
Tevez is a glorified version of Olic and Bellamy.
I agree with most of that, I'd just add that he has a great knack of scoring important goals.
Tevez didn't like where he was being played (as a more out and out striker) and cried about it to the Argentinian media. He had a terrible attitude.
Tevez was never that good for us. Even in that first season when he was at his most productive for us, he always seemed to have the habit of missing a lot of easy chances. None more so than in the CL final when he should have put us 2-0 up against Chelsea.
Second season his attitude was just really poor. The way he played the fans and they way the fans fell for it was pretty pathetic to be honest. I was on a different forum at the time and I was lambasted for saying Tevez was being disigenuous and that we should move him on. Two years later and I feel vindicated in that opinion. What a horrible little man. Definitely not the sort of player you want around the club.
Poor old Berbs on the other hand has been a model professional. It's inevitable he will leave now but I will be sad to see him go. Never once complained and he had some really great moments for us. If we had built the team around him, I think it could have worked but we never really accommodated his playing style. The writing has been on the wall for sometime.
I hope he does well where ever he moves.
I will still never forget that one piece of skill he did at the goal line to set up Ronaldo. About the best thing I have ever seen.
he is not the best player coming off the bench but surely he is still good enough to be ahead of the likes of park to be on the 18 man matchday squad.very sad to see him getting frozen out completely over the last 2-3 months.
Actually I thought Hateley was better than Carroll,but there you go
Blaming Fergie and Gill for the loss?
Have you seen how he has behaved at City despite being the main man at their club, their highest paid player and the club captain. Do you think he would've been happy here playing second fiddle to Rooney.
We will have to disagree here. He was a good player for us, but I always felt he flattered to deceive. How he could be touted as the new Maradona amazed me. I was always left wishing for more, from him. Out of Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez, he was a very poor third.
Tevez cannot be "properly handled." Which is why he has caused trouble and forced his way out of practically every team he has played for.
jeez mate, just look at his track record and keep looking from next season on. The guy is trouble. His contribution for us was ok but nothing to get excited about. Of course he has talent, but so does Balotelli.
At the time I thought it was a huge mistake letting him go. There is no question
he would have been far better for Utd than Berbatov in terms of on the pitch is concerned.
But with the benefit of hindsight I am delighted Tevez left.
Fergie must have known something and disliked his character, otherwise surely he would have fought harder to keep him.
As for Berbatov, I have said many times. He never had the mentality to be a top Utd forward. He failed to cope with pressure but I must say I have been impressed by his attitude these last 2 seasons and I will choose to remember his purple patch last season when he was outstanding, rather than the sulky, lazy out of his depth player he was in his 1st two seasons.
I just don't see that at all, Randall. I can't see how we couldn't get the best out of him. I really think if we'd had a midfield driving force like a Keane or Robson, we'd have seen a better Berba.
Tevez reached a higher level at City in terms of end product when he got to be the main man and club captain. He was never going to be that here. Then it all went to shit when they allowed his ego to grow too big...
A disaster waiting to happen and Fergie called it.
Berbatov is a fantastic option to have coming on (and all too willing to accept that role in the squad) and would have been perfect for the closing stages of just about any of our recent matches. Sadly, it seems Fergie has written him off altogether now. If he'd been used more, I'm fairly certain the goal difference would have swung favourably in our direction at this stage.
Biggest problem for Berbatov is that right now we have the ability to field close to 2 premier league winning or CL qualifying front lines without him.
Agree with most of that. At the time I really didn't understand why the deal for Tevez wasn't signed and sealed Summer 2008, considering we had apparently agreed a fee and wages in advance.
The only part I question is whether Fergie actually didn't want to keep him. Personally at the time I felt that we were trying to use the fact that Tevez was adored by the fans and seemed to love playing for the club as a way to low-ball the transfer fee, thinking he would be loyal to us, rather than his agent. I felt this tactic backfired and by the time we matched the previously agreed offer (in addition to his lack of game time) he felt neglected and pushed for the move away.
This is backed up by the obvious point that as a club spending £60m on 2 players within a year in addition to wages would be a big push and possibly not that viable.
In the end we were very lucky though, as clearly he is a ticking time bomb (although if anyone could have tamed him it'd be Fergie).
I do feel sorry for Berba, but the fact is that he not a good sub. Fergie showed in the CL Final last season that he just doesnt see him an option from the bench at all.
Somewhere along the line it became obvious that Berba and Rooney could not play together and after that Berba was always on borrowed time. I was very suprised that he didnt leave last summer after being left out of the CL team.
Still he has never complained and even this season when called upon has got a few goals - shame that it has to end this way.
But seriously, I wish him all the best when he does leave us in the Summer. Didnt work out as great as it should have, but his contribution was hardly a waste. Granted the price tag didnt help him in the eyes of some fans, but tbh, he improved from what he was at Spurs. And on top of that, he helped us to #19 and I will always remember his hattrick against Liverpool especially seeing that second goal live
Shame he didn't consider this before he sanctioned £30m then
My pet theory is that it's a reaction to this which has (partly) motivated Fergies total rejection of Berbatov.
Irrationally he blames the loss of the £30M, the loss of face with the owners, and the fiasco with Tevez, on Berbatov rather than his own error. Berbatov is the favoured child who has let him down.
"What evidence have you for this theory, Dr. Freud?"
"Good! Theory confirmed."
To be fair to Fergie, you can't always tell if a player is made of the "right stuff" before he actually arrives and starts playing. Fergie signed him because he really liked him as a player as many on here did but then realised he didn't have what it took to really succeed at the club.
I dont think that is it though. I dont think he has turned out to be of the wrong stuff at all. He is made out of exactly the same stuff he always seemed to be made out of when he was at Spurs. It is just that Fergie wanted this type of stuff, and then he changed his mind and decided a completely different type of stuff was needed after all.
Scored more goals that Carroll. If memory serves, Hateley scored a hat-trick in one of his first few appearances for Liverpool and the press raved. Liverpool were just on the cusp of becoming the major force in English football and boasted the likes of Hunt and St. John in the forward line. Hateley was to be the final piece of the jigsaw. I think Shankly got rid of him even though he scored over 20 goals for the dippers because he couldn't fit him into the style of play he wanted to see from his team.
Peter may remember better than I but didn't Tommy Docherty, who managed him at Chelsea, once make a scathing comment about Hateley's ability to play with his feet? Can't remember what it was.
He couldn't adapt and when you play for United you have to learn to adapt.
I'd agree with that.
Berba is a player who needs everyone to play to his strengths to get the best out of him, he thrived in teams where he was the main man - it is a different story being part of a squad at United.
Yeah this is it, he was capable of change no doubt but it he was a firm believer of 'minimum effort, maximum satisfaction'
Should have started every single Europa League game.
A joke he didn't play in those.
Still mystified that he isn't at least on the bench. I'd definitely pick him ahead of Welbeck to get a goal and perhaps even Chicha on current form. When he's played this season, he's done well - so why not at least use him while he is here.
Oh well - hope we wrap up the title early enough for him to at least get 1 more home game.
Well obviously he is better than both Welbeck and Chica. I am equally mystified.
I enjoy the games a little less knowing that Berbatov will not feature. I feel the same as when Becks left. I miss seeing the elegant ease in which he receives a cross as much as I missed seeing Beckhams sweet crosses.
Fergie's a great manager, not a miracle worker. From what I've seen, after nearly six years in England or so, Tevez still doesn't seem to talk english. Which means that Fergie probably couldn't even talk to him without an interpreter. Not really the way to get into his lost soul, while an agent continues to whisper into his ear.
I pity Tevez. He's a great player, but I think he's been a pawn from the moment he became the property of Joorabchian. I don't know how much of what we've seen from him has been Tevez himself and how much the result of manipulation by his agent.
There seems to be a pattern in this thread. He doesn't play for a while, people say that he should be starting more often, he starts for a few games and does okay, people praise him, then he puts in a poor performance, people say that he shouldn't be starting for us. Repeat cycle for this whole entire season.
Yeah it's not a lack of talent, it's a lack of desire/will/determination/balls.
The scouting staff need to take responsibility for that, they report to SAF on players, who makes the final decision but he trusts their recommendations.
Conversely, I think one of SAF's greatest strengths is that he trusts his staff implicitly, from the players to the tea ladies, they generally repay him through their performance in kind but they don't always get it right.
Compare that to Mancini at the moment who has brought back Tevez, the most disrespectful player in living memory, what does that say to the rest of his strike force?
I remember reading a Gary Lineker article a couple of years back and he claimed that the Tottenham back room staff knew, as soon as United's interest became common knowledge, that Berbatov was not cut out for the pressure of the biggest stage. If true, you have to wonder how our scouting staff did not learn about this when enquiring about the player whilst scouting, after all, that is their job right?
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