Big defensive overhaul needed

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by abdo99, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. Feb 11, 2018
    #1

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

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    Following today's result I've come to the conclusion that a big defensive overhaul is required in the summer. We have spent poorly on defensive options since the retirement of SAF and it's painfully obvious we aren't going to win trophies with the current defensive setup. I know we have a good defensive record in terms of goals conceded but it doesn't tell the story on the pitch. The whole defensive line isn't up to standard. Our back 4 consists of players who were here during SAF's time and I can't figure out how we've spent so much money to end up with these players still playing in our defence. We'll probably be here next year making the same thread after the same result. It's time to be ruthless and make a proper clearout of deadwood in the summer. It's stupid to expect different results when you persist with the same mediocrity year in year out.

    First and foremost we have so many CB's in our team but only one should be part of the team we are trying to build and that's Bailly. A commanding ball playing CB in the summer is crucial. Someone like Alderweireld would be perfect. He is stalling on a new contract and if possible he'd be my first choice there. Smalling and Jones should both leave and I'd send Lindelof on loan because there's no point in him sitting on the bench when he needs gametime. Rojo can stay as cover for CB and LB.

    Coming to the fullbacks I have to be ruthless and say we need a new RB and LB. We play failed wingers in fullback positions and the real fullbacks can't get a game. Remember when Darmian and Shaw looked like the real deal at the start of the 15/16 season? It's been a total disaster. Do what Man City did and spend big on the fullback areas. We should be looking something like this:

    De Gea
    New RB Bailly Aldeweireld New LB​

    Darmian and Blind should both be sold and rightly so after their shockers at Bristol along with Young. TFM and Tuanzebe should get more chances in the first team next season. Valencia and Shaw can stay as cover. I know it's a big overhaul but we need to do it to avoid being left behind. Man City have been ruthless in upgrading on their deadwood and we need to do the same. Yesterday they fielded an entire back 4 and keeper all signed by Guardiola and we have the same players that Fergie left. It's so obvious where we need to improve so let's do it.
  2. Feb 11, 2018
    #2

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

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    I reckon we'll bring in a new LB to start but keep Valencia as first choice on the right with Fosu-Mensah as backup.
  3. Feb 11, 2018
    #3

    BluesJr Full Member

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    Too many players from the SAF era remain I actually we should replace all of them with the exception of De Gea.
  4. Feb 11, 2018
    #4

    Amar__ Not so Full Member

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    If we continue to play Pogba in midfield two we might as well bring back Vidic and Ferdinand.
  5. Feb 11, 2018
    #5

    Oscie Full Member

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    I think Matic is the elephant in the room. Simply doesn't provide adequate cover to allow Pogba to play to his best.
  6. Feb 11, 2018
    #6

    ThaReaper01 Full Member

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    I don’t get this. Even in the games aunties have lost, it isn’t like they were giving up chances left and right. The defense has more or less been good this year. They conceded two fluke goals to Spurs and a goal that was mostly Pogba’s fault today.

    The center backs aren’t uncomfortable on the ball. They hoof it because there is no other pass on. Matic comes deep but is followed by one or two players because is high up the pitch. Now there is no out ball. The midfielders need to be coming and picking the ball up off the defenders but they (Matic) are almost always outnumbered. When Lingard came dee it helped and United were able to build from that position one, that’s not where you want Lingard and two, it didn’t happen all that often.
  7. Feb 11, 2018
    #7

    Greck Full Member

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    You're blaming Matic for not being the solution to the problems caused by Pogba.

    I wouldn't exactly blame him but I'd say we need someone with legs if we're to persist with Pogba in a midfield 2. And for Pogba to stop ball watching when we lose the ball.
  8. Feb 11, 2018
    #8

    groovyalbert Full Member

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    We need a summer window a bit like City's last/this season.
  9. Feb 11, 2018
    #9

    Nytram Shakes Full Member

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    Don't think its the defence thats the main issue, conceding one goal is hardly a crime.

    The lack of any sort of coherent attacking structure worries me a lot more.
  10. Feb 11, 2018
    #10

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    It was three goals too many and lost us both games. If we were an all guns blazing side who you knew would outscore the other side it wouldn't matter, but we aren't in these situation. We are a full panic mode side when we need calm heads.
  11. Feb 11, 2018
    #11

    King _Eric New Member

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    The lack of ability of producing quality football after going down worries me most. We are too passive in these away games and we show no urgency (Stoke, Southampton, Huddersfield, Burnley, West Brom) to name a few of the top of my head.
  12. Feb 11, 2018
    #12

    Eleven-Eighteen New Member

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    This is the opposite of what we need. Our defensive record this season is still stellar. It's that our attackers and midfield cannot combine to put the ball in the goal.

    One goal conceded here and there should not be a problem against teams like Newcastle, because the score line should surely have been like a 3-1.
  13. Feb 11, 2018
    #13

    whatwha Sniffs Erricksson’s diarrhea

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    Defense isn't the (biggest) problem.

    We should be outscoring teams rather than worrying about clean sheets. This is Manchester United.
  14. Feb 11, 2018
    #14

    Red_toad Full Member

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    I don't think many players could perform in midfield to allow Pogba the freedom to roam. Is near impossible for anyone to do the work of 2 players. So either Pogba adapts his game, or United need to have a different formation, or Pogba doesn't play and we put Herrera alongside Matic.
    Glad to see yet another knee jerk thread where we have to get rid of the entire back line bar De Gea. The midfield was the issue, teams make it look so easy to run straight through our midfield. Even I can track a runner, but seems to be very difficult task for when it's up to our players to do a very simply thing. As they seem to be standing around wanting for someone to do their running for them. Yes our defender feel asleep for the goal, but isn't their fault the team can't score and look terribly disjointed with attacking formations.
    Jose needs to earn his corn, make so bold decisions and get the team playing as a unit. We certainly have a vastly superior squad to Newcastles and should have been more than good enough to finish them off.
  15. Feb 11, 2018
    #15

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots

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    Matic was doing exactly that earlier in the season. What's changed since?
  16. Feb 11, 2018
    #16

    arthurka Full Member

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    We need an attacking overhaul more than we need defensive ..
  17. Feb 11, 2018
    #17

    Ban Full Member

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    Would keep Jones, Rojo, Shaw and Bailly. So there's no need for some overhaul at all.
  18. Feb 11, 2018
    #18

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    In that case I hope DDG definitely doesn't go because the players in front of him would then be wetting themselves. They do well because he is there and he gets them out of scrapes.
  19. Feb 11, 2018
    #19

    dogwithabone Full Member

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    Not enough stand out performers in defence that makes them un-droppable.

    Too many players look good one week and rubbish the next. That leads to the manager having little confidence and then the chopping and changing starts and nothing is ever settled.
  20. Feb 11, 2018
    #20

    luke511 Full Member

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    Bailly is genuinely a gamechanger for us. If we can get him and Lindelof playing together effectively then that's a big problem solved in terms of distribution from the back.

    As for the likes of LB I'm a strong believer in Shaw, complete mystery how he is starting ahead of Shaw in games like this. That leaves Valencia and it's a hard call, he's still a quality player but his end game is lacking at times.
  21. Feb 11, 2018
    #21

    altodevil86 Full Member

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    We have the best defence in the league. It's our midfield-attacker cohesion which is non-existent.
  22. Feb 11, 2018
    #22

    Alock1 Wears XXXL shirts

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    For those saying that our defence is the least of our concerns, I'd argue that for the possession we have, we concede more chances than others, and but for De Gea we would be conceding more goals.

    Even if we disagree on that point, there's still a lot to be desired from an attacking sense when you look at our back line. A lack of confidence and competence bringing the ball out from the back resulting in slow build up and a requirement on midfielders to come deeper to collect. A lack of natural width & quality overlapping/delivery from fullbacks results in us funnelling everything through the centre and struggling to break down opposition.

    I do think Bailly (maybe even Lindelof) & Shaw go some way to relieve those issues, so it wouldn't be a complete overhaul.
  23. Feb 11, 2018
    #23

    Hugh Jass Full Member

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    Bring back Bailly. He would make a huge difference. Keep Jones. Shaw at LB. So maybe a new RB to replace Valenica because he is old.

    We cannot keep buying new players every season. We are close. You have also to factor in that there is 6 teams going for one position, so five teams have to lose out.

    We need a MF or two depending on who stays or goes.
  24. Feb 11, 2018
    #24

    walkinhop Full Member

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    Bring a third person into midfield, that will bolster the defense and help with the build-up. A couple of signings to cover the the aging lads but not an overhaul by a mile.
  25. Feb 11, 2018
    #25

    Hugh Jass Full Member

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    This. Op is just dellusional.
  26. Feb 11, 2018
    #26

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    Think the Bailly and Rojo injuries ruined things a bit. They are good together. It is sad that we are still relying on two over the hill wingers as fullbacks. Shaw should be in there regularly now and we should either be grooming Axel or bring in a top class U-25 fullback to be ready for replacing Valencia. I would keep Jones as a squad player, but Smalling has to go along with Blind, who seems to want to go and Darmian who I have no doubt wants to go as well. I keep forgetting about Lindelof, poor lad. He has a lot of potential as well, but everytime he seemed to be settling in, Jose takes him out again. Just let the lad get used to being a United player.
  27. Feb 11, 2018
    #27

    Red_toad Full Member

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    Bailly and Lindelof are both poor in the air. So we'd be better passing out if defence, but extremely liable to lose out at any set pieces. In fact Bailly has gone to shite this season and hasn't performed anywhere near his first season.
  28. Feb 11, 2018
    #28

    el3mel Full Member

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    Think Shaw can solve our LB issues after all. Young should be dropped once and for all.

    We need a new RB to start taking the role from Valencia after a season or 2 but most importantly a CB good with his legs. Lindelof should have been that but took so long to settle in the league and his heading will always be a concern.

    A good defender than can play with his legs while being good defensively to play beside Bailly will do wonders for us.
  29. Feb 11, 2018
    #29

    Devil81 Full Member

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    The defence wasn't that bad, the problem is the tempo of our game. We're far too predictable.
  30. Feb 11, 2018
    #30

    JJ12 Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

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    I don't think it's so much the defending - it's how limited they are on the ball. Smalling can barely kick the ball for a start.
  31. Feb 11, 2018
    #31

    Cmz' Full Member

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    Our defence is the biggest problem at the moment as evidenced by the fact De Gea's made the 2nd most saves in the league this season which for a keeper playing for a top 6 team is a joke. For comparison, none of the other top 6 keepers are in the top 10 for saves made (Petr Cech is 11th, Courtouis and Lloris are 15th & 16th and Ederson is 18th). Our full backs don't join the attack enough and when they do Ashley Young always wants it on his right and Valencia stands there looking for a move to make before playing it backwards or giving it to someone who clearly isn't ready for a pass. Then we get on to the CB's who's contribution to the build up is where (imo) all of our problems stem from, of the Centre backs we have the only ones who looks properly composed enough is Lindelof, for a team who will dominate the ball as much as us, the key is to have centre backs comfortable enough on the ball to help maintain possession when being pressed instead of aimlessly lumping the ball up the pitch (a problem Smalling, Rojo and Valencia in particular seem to have). We really could do with bringing in at least 3 new defensive players this season so we can begin next year with:

    de Gea (Romero)
    New RB (Valencia)
    New CB (Lindelof)
    Bailly (Jones)
    Shaw (New LB)
  32. Feb 11, 2018
    #32

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

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    Do you believe we can win the league with the current defensive setup? That's my concern. I know we have problems in midfield but Mourinho has already said we aren't buying any attackers in the summer so that's why I'm suggesting a defensive overhaul with a combination of pace, strength and composure to provide a better platform for our attacking to players to shine otherwise nothing is going to change next season too. Something the current defenders aren't doing. We can buy as many attackers as we want but are Jones, Smalling and Young going to win us the league? I don't think so. If you look at Mourinho's 8 signings since he arrived only two are defenders and one ( Lindelof) has been very poor. It's the next step towards rebuilding this team.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  33. Feb 11, 2018
    #33

    M Bison Full Member

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    Tend to agree with the first part of this post, Matic doesn't look good enough however, we shouldnt need to buy a player to get more out of Pogba, he should be able to offer more than he currently does.
  34. Feb 11, 2018
    #34

    AndyJ1985 Full Member Verified Moaner

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    There's always some kind of overhaul needed...

    We should start with a management and coaching overhaul.
  35. Feb 11, 2018
    #35

    NinjaFletch Full Member

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    I think it's more difficult than that. We've conceded the least goals, but we concede over 4 more shots per game than Liverpool, Chelsea, or City and De Gea has made the joint second most saves (87) in the league this season.

    We have an absolutely ridiculously fantastic goalkeeper. The rest? I'm not convinced.

    Why this thread got started after today though I don't know.
  36. Feb 11, 2018
    #36

    Hugh Jass Full Member

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    We need a new RB to replace an aging Valencia. That is about it. Every defender makes a mistake. Look at Van Dijk. Bought for 75 million and has made two big errors already. What we need is a MF or two depending on who leaves. If it were me, I would get rid of Mata and bring in a pacy left winger for the right hand side.

    We are close. You have to factor in as well that it is a very competitive league in that you have 6 teams vying for one spot. So buying in all these new players is not suddenly going to bring you the league. And even if you do win it one season, you wont win it the next season. City will not win it next season.
  37. Feb 11, 2018
    #37

    BeforeKeanetherewasRobson Full Member

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    Yip, Pogba needs people to do certain jobs (sitting, the "legs") and allow him to focus on striding forward, drawing defenders out of position and either passing or shooting.
    Matic is being asked to do the same thing as Pogba is.... work in a 2-man midfield. It's wrong for Matic and it's wrong for Pogba.

    We need a tough, energetic CM to let Matic sit and pass the ball about while Pogba does his stuff further forward.

    Jose thinks we're playing 433 but we're not. He's bought Sanchez and has to play him (totally agree) but he's also still trying to play 3 out of Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Mata.

    End result is we don't get the best out of any of them. Pointless?

    Pick your best team, not your best eleven players.
  38. Feb 11, 2018
    #38

    Revaulx Full Member

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    Darmian and Blind were shocking today. Get rid.

    Oh wait...
  39. Feb 11, 2018
    #39

    ThaReaper01 Full Member

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    And how is this the defenses fault? That’s all down to the manager and his tactics. I love Jose but he’s setting the team out wrongly. The midfield situation is directly, negatively affecting the defense. To blame the defense for any of the defeats, really, is silliness.
  40. Feb 11, 2018
    #40

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

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    What it does say about them if they can't be trusted in a game against 17th placed Newcastle? I know Blind was injured today but even if he was fit he wouldn't have played. They are both obviously on the way out and the game against Bristol was the final straw so I included them in my overhaul.