Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by abdo99, Feb 11, 2018.
Is Alderweireld a leader type? A calm, experienced head? I haven't watched him much.
It's not just the defenders but also the defensive structure/tactics that need to be tweaked IMO.
City Spurs and Liverpool are excellent without the ball. The pressing tactics they employ makes them vulnerable only when the press is bypassed. but they dont mind taking that chance against most teams in the league and don't mind conceding the odd one on one situation on the counter attack or through a long ball. The pressing tactic i feel hides the defensive frailties of City Spurs and Liverpool and instead overwhelms the opposition and exposes their weakness.
On the contrary, our tactic is to sit back and absorb pressure. Mourinho seems to believe that being compact is the only way to protect his defenders. The only time our defenders are vulnerable to counter attacks is when are a goal down and start taking risks. IMO if one takes into account their entire squad, City Spurs and Liverpool dont have significantly better defenders than United, yet the management show more confidence in them than United/Mourinho does. Pochettino and klopp put their defenders at risks throughout a game by leaving them isolated with forwards, while the rest of the team presses the midfield and defensive line. they seem to have more trust in the likes of Davinson Sanchez, Lovren and Otamendi even though at times they do make the odd mistake, while Mourinho doesnt seem to trust any of our defenders.
Our tactic to sit back and absorb pressure also doesnt add up. This tactic would make sense if we were capable of scoring counter attacking goals, by inviting the opposition onto us and picking them off on the counter. But we've only scored 4 goals from counter attacks in the whole season. There's no point in sitting back and inviting the opposition if you can't counter attack them.
If we buy the right kind of defenders that Jose trusts and who can not only defend but also pass the ball out of defence, it will also significantly improve our offensive output. But the problem doesnt end there - an Overhaul is not the only solution - Mourinho needs to trust his defenders and take risks from the get go (esp against weaker opposition). He also needs to employ pressing which against smaller teams will only help to protect his defenders IMO.
Firstly I am quite surprised how obsessed we have become with our defence. Jose going into his third season and we are hearing about more defenders. Our frailties going back to the LvG days hasn't been the defence, comparing them to the rest of the league. It has been our walkover midfield and our often clueless/non creative attack that has let us down. We really need to strengthen our midfield and have a game plan in attack. It wouldn't hurt to have proper wingers that don't cut in all the time but keep the width in our play. We really need a game maker in the middle no new CD's. Young and Valencia really need replacing but I doubt Jose will be doing that.
I fully agree with this, surprised few people think we need to sign attackers compared to defenders when we’ve been awful breaking down compact teams and that’s where we lost the league (how many points did we drop to lower league teams?).
However the way I see the Alderweireld situation is very much that he’s there to benefit our attacking play as much as our defensive play. If you watch the Brighton game back and many games this season one of our biggest failings has been building our from the back, we are absolutely awful at it. Our defenders aren’t comfortable on the ball, they can’t bring it out and it affects the whole team. Pogba, Matic, Mata etc have to come deep to pick up the ball, therefore there’s fewer players ahead to pass to and our build up breaks down so so so many times. We desperately need centre backs with composure and vision who can start attacks without our attacking players needing to come deep. Alderweireld isn’t just a good ball playing cb, this guy is seriously one of the best ball playing cbs in the world, he’s amazing at it. He would make such a huge difference to our whole attacking pattern especially if he’s paired with Bailly or Lindelof.
Trust me when I say getting a cb like him is as important as getting good cms or attacking players. Why do you think Pep loves Stones so much (even when he was making mistakes) and spent so much money on Laporte? It’s crucial when playing attacking football that the cbs are players as well. Smalling has done a great service for us and has been our most reliable cb over the last few seasons but my days he’s awful on the ball, the next level would be replacing him with a guy like Toby who has 10x the composure and ball playing ability.
I agree,Valencia will be first choice for another season....Our main priority is to sign a ball playing CB and a top class LB...
Except that Stones isn't Pep first choice CB anymore, and Laporte 9 league games?
Partly injury, partly really good form of Otamendi and Kompany but Pep clearly rates him and likes him a lot.
Laporte is 23, he’s young and City spent a huge amount of money on him. They wouldn’t do that for a squad player he’s clearly someone who’s going to be a key player in the future. Why spend 63m on someone to sit on the bench?
The manager might like him, but it doesn't matter if he thinks others are better.
I don’t get this argument, are you saying that he’s out of favour/not good enough? Since when has a player bought in Jan become out of favour because he didn’t play every game since he joined? Players take time to adapt when bought in Jan, it doesn’t mean anything that he hasn’t been thrown straight in. He’s young and he’s come into a new league halfway through the season, I’m not sure what the argument even is here
I think the argument revolve around your claiming that "Why do you think Pep loves Stones so much (even when he was making mistakes) and spent so much money on Laporte?" Where this "love" is not actually represented in action (i.e. them playing more games) to suit your claim about Pep like to play ball playing CBs like them.
How can you claim that, when they actually didn't feature much this season?
New FB yes. Defensive overhaul definitely not.
Laporte started 13 out of the last 22 games for City he was available for and started the majority of the 'big games' didn't feature against United but played the two CL games against Liverpool
Ok I feel like this argument could go round in circles but let me try one more time
Quotes from the link to the article I already posted earlier. Pep is literally here saying he likes him a lot, he definitely rates him he’s said it so much. When you have 4 quality defenders and you get an niggling injuries it makes sense you sit out for a while, why rush him back if Kompany and Otamendis form is so good? Why unsettle a pair that’s doing the business at the end of a season to accommodate a half fit guy?
As for Laporte, as I said many time, you don’t spend 63m on a player you don’t want to play. Kompany is going to be phased out for sure, he’s 32 and injury prone. Pep signed Laporte to be a future starter, you just don’t spend a club record fee (club record in all positions not just defence) on a guy you don’t expect to play. If you disagree please explain how that logic is wrong. My view is if you break your club record for a player that means you rate that player, maybe I’m crazy if that’s not the case
13/22 is about 60%. Also, didn't you guys play 3 at the back against Liverpool? Not much choice there.
If we enter in next season with smalling and jones in that backline i will cry. Really i will.
Someone on this team needs to be fired, awful defensive signings, Blind, Darmian, Shaw, Rojo, Bailly, Lindelof, and we still play with two converted fullbacks and Smalling and Jones.
Big managerial overhaul needed more like.
Why? If he had 200 mil to spent on defence we would win this. We played very good but when you have average players in defence instead 70 mil worth defenders than you get this
here we go again. Think we're all in agreement jones and smalling are far from the top centre backs we need. I trust Jose's judgement in the two centre halves we bought in and we'll see them next year. Young is the worst "left back" out of the top 6 and we all know Shaw's issue. Valencia as per Young. A defensive revamp is needed, not Mourinho!!!
Didn't he buy 2 center backs?
We scored about 1 goal in last 5 games, and then we lose 1-0 without creating single decent chance from open play against average side and people still argue that defence is the main thing we need to improve on.
If we play with that defence next season then help us.
Did you watch our full backs?
Did you watch our CB give away a penalty?
Please put it on video, I'm looking forward to it.
Complaining after Smalling puts in a shift like that. The state of you
Ourfullbacks are terrible, but attacking wise. Defensively they are average as anyother team's fullbacks. We haven't scored a goal today, we haven't evencreated single chance from open play today.
Jones had to try make a tackle ffs hazard was 3 yards from goal
Defending counts for nothing when your team plays shit football and can't score goals.
We had the best defense in the league this season despite our supposedly rubbish backline.
No he didn’t.
Also Jones was at fault for reaching it that stage. Then he made a brainless tackle when the angle was against Hazard. He’d have to do something special to beat DDG from there.
we conceded one goal againt a good team.... that happens! main problem was going forward.... we looked like we have never attacked as a team in our lives.
Smalling and jones still are at the same level they were 5 years ago. Extremely inconsistent and mistake prone in big moments. Today was jones turn and it’s probably down to him being injured and out of match shape.
I’m just shocked as to why Eric bailly didn’t play. Would not be unhappy at all if bailly and someone like Alderweireld were our first choice pairing next season.
Also, Antonio Valencia needs competition for his spot. He is on the downturn and I can’t count how many poor crosses and back passes he made today. He can’t beat a fullback anymore.
This time is jones. Another time is smalling. I admit, smalling is far better and he deserves to stay as backup but jones must go.
And this is exactly what i am talking about. One perfect game and people will say " wow how good smalling or jones are". After one perfect game comes costly mistake. And it is for 5 years now
Smalling is a backup to who again?
If Mourinho is fine with Valencia, Young and Jones as starters next season he should be shown the door as well. I'm tired of this shite.
He's just been our man of the match in the cup final. He deserves to be one of the first names on the team sheet.
By all means get your fancy new CB that you want, but anyone who knows anything about defending would want that player to partner Smalling not replace him.
Anybody who thinks defense is a problem is obviously a moron. Did Jones made a mistake? Sure. But any team, any defenders make those. We have one of the best defensive record in PL, against top 6 we conceded 11, joint best with City, Chelsea.
Our defense is hardly a problem, our attack is the problem. And not just the youngsters. Sanchez, Lukaku, Pogba none of them had even a decent season, never mind actually good.
Smalling is part of the problem mate. He didn't make a mistake leading to goal but he plays with a fear just the like the whole team. There is panic in our backline and nobody wants to command it.
Bailly and new defender should be first pair.
Smalling just did. The problem is you can't apprecaite good defensive work.
So you want another error prone CB to replace our least error prone CB?
Smalling was outstanding today. Completely shut down Giroud and dispossessed Hazard a number of times when left one on one.
Shocking mistake by Jones for the goal but it can't be that one defensive mistake is so costly on a regular basis.
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