Bouhafsi: Martial wants to leave United

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Zoo, Jun 13, 2018.

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  1. Jul 1, 2018

    GM K Full Member

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    I think the Martial / Jose problem is one of mentality and chemistry between boss and surbodunate. Martial seems to me to be the type of guy that is very sensitive and requires tender loving care. Jose in the other hand craves loyalty, commitment and tough mentality. I think it explains Jose's strange fondness for Fellaini and why his pet players seem to be players like Young, Valencia, Rashford and Matic. These guys seem like players that don't need much cuddling or players who will not mind giving their jersey numbers to a legend that decides to join the club.

    It might be a managerial weakness of Jose or a fault Martial has but it is what it is. In football, some players and managers just don't gell. It's best they go their separate ways and that does not mean they won"t both succeed without each other
  2. Jul 1, 2018

    GM K Full Member

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    I think the Martial / Jose problem is one of mentality and chemistry between boss and surbodinate. Martial seems to me to be the type of guy that is very sensitive and requires tender loving care. Jose on the other hand craves loyalty, commitment and tough mentality. I think it explains his strange fondness for Fellaini and why his pet players are those like Young, Valencia, Rashford and Matic. These guys look like they don't need much cuddling and will not mind giving their jersey numbers to a legend that decides to join the club.

    It might be a managerial weakness of Jose or a fault Martial has but it is what it is. In football, some players and managers just don't gel. It's best they go their separate ways and that does not mean they won"t both succeed without each other.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  3. Jul 1, 2018

    Kapardin Full Member

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    The problem for Jose is that flair footballers in the modern era are not his "warrior" types, but more similar to Martial.

    A decade ago we had world class players like Drogba, Lampard, Terry, Ibra etc who had the "warrior" mentality that Jose craves, and who followed instructions. Nowadays, we have players like De Bruyne, Salah, Neymar, maybe Mbappe and on a lesser level the likes of Martial who are the type of players needed for a top side, but who do not fit Jose's "mentality" criterion. Rather, the stereotypical "warriors" are now strictly average or mediocre players like Fellaini, Valencia, Willian etc.

    If Jose refuses to be more flexible, we are going to miss out on 80% of talented players who are also primadonnas. And success might be hard to come by. Might find a couple like Sanchez or Matic who have both talent and mentality, but it is very rare.
  4. Jul 1, 2018

    GM K Full Member

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    While I get your point, I am not sure about how you have categorized the players you listed. I think tough mentality is not about whether or not a player has flair. Ronaldo, Messi, Hazard, De Bruyne, Eriksen, are mentally tough cookies if you ask me. Neymar is more of a mercenary than a softie if you ask me and back then you had Kanu, Ronaldinho, Deco, and so on who were flair guys but had tough mentalities. I admit this is very subjective and debatable and I am only postulating based on observations. But I am sure there are many tough cookies out there who are flair players. Nevetherless, there is an interesting angle to your point. In the modern day, players - especially flair ones - have more power. No matter how poor mentally one team seems to believe a flair player is, there are 10 big teams out there ready to pay a lot for that player. So players tend to take less 'harrassments' from their clubs and managers and are often willing (and able) to move on more quickly. This is a reality Jose must accept and adopt his methods to otherwise he stands the risk of always losing flair players with not so strong mentalities and even tough cookies with no nonesense or desperate agents.
  5. Jul 1, 2018

    Kapardin Full Member

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    This is what I was getting at. Nowadays, a player can sign a 6 year deal and yet stir rumors of an exit before the ink has dried. So by "mentality", I meant the desire to match Jose's expectations which really won't be there for 80% of the players.

    Jose's man-mamagement needs to change.
  6. Jul 1, 2018

    GM K Full Member

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    Good point there.
  7. Jul 1, 2018

    breakout67 Full Member

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    There are plenty of 'flair' players that are 'warriors'. Pogba is one of those players and he is always up for the physical battle and has a fantastic ability to tune out his critics. Sanchez is the same, gets kicked off the park every game and keeps on going.

    Martial doesn't work for the team enough plain and simple. He doesn't run off the ball to make space for his team mates in attack enough and he doesn't track back to win the ball back enough. His eye for a pass is also lacking. So all you are left with is 1v1 drills and shooting practice from training.

    Saying that he needs a pat on the back and some kind words to do footballing basics is nonsensical. This isn't academy football, those things are supposed to be in your game before you become a professional. And chances are that those things will take multiple years to get into his game, because to add those aspects to your game as an adult is very difficult.
  8. Jul 1, 2018

    Mainoldo Full Member

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    With that said. It’s a surprise how he even made it!!!! Just for my education give me an example where his lack of football intelligence showed in a game. I’ll have go view it myself.
  9. Jul 1, 2018

    shirked New Member

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    I just don't think Mourinho is the best manager for the boy. Young players rarely improve under him. His track record suggests that he buys older players who have already reached their highest level. Matic is the most recent example and he was one of our standout performers last season. Pains me to say it but if he leaves for Spurs, Pochettino will develop him into a star. We've seen glimpses of Martial's brilliance, we just don't have the manager to coax it out of him on a consistent basis. Some of that has to do with playing time too. After January he rarely featured.
  10. Jul 1, 2018

    iphone5 New Member

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    Sign the contract Anthony or leave and we will buy you back for 200m in the future!
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  11. Jul 1, 2018

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Good point. If Jose isn't ready to tweak his management a little then he has to target players who are very strong mentally and not for instance, someone like Mkhytaryan.
  12. Jul 1, 2018

    el3mel Full Member

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    I don't think it's the warrior stuff it's just the point that Martial doesn't run up and down consistently as much as Mbappe. While Mbappe was in Monaco Di Marzio linked us to him and said Mourinho loves him and sees him as the new Ronaldo or something like that. Martial is great while having the ball but in some games he appears as he's playing in his own world away from the game itself. He has the talent but simply doesn't have the same explosiveness as Mbappe. I can't see Martial doing the same run as Mbappe when he got the penalty even though Martial is fast.
  13. Jul 1, 2018

    SirAF Ageist

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    This.
  14. Jul 1, 2018

    sunama Baghdad Bob

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    You seriously believe that Martial is good enough to have a side built around him?
  15. Jul 1, 2018

    sunama Baghdad Bob

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    Agreed.
  16. Jul 1, 2018

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

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    Is probably the closest thing Martial has done. Different circumstances in that there's more players in the opposition half and the run didn't start from own half like Mbappe:



    Mbappe's run was at 37 km/h but Martial has been clocked at 35.4 km/h before against Newcastle a couple of years ago. Whether Martial could do that over a long distance I doubt but he did have that explosiveness in his debut season here.
  17. Jul 1, 2018

    tenpoless Full Member

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    Didn't Di Maria and Ozil play a lot under Jose? those players are known to be 'mentally weak' or being called 'bottlers' but They performed really well. Mentality does play a part but I always think it's all about whether a player has shown He's good enough first and foremost, for Jose. It's never about age as well, look at Varane. I doubt He goes around looking for "warrior" type of footballers.

    Martial has shown glimpses of what He can do but not consistent enough to guarantee a permanent spot. At least not with players like Rashford and Sanchez around. I think that's fair. Had He started only 5 games last season, I would've complained too.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  18. Jul 1, 2018

    TheReligion Abusive

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    I'm a big Martial fan but he has to accept some responsibility surely?

    Strolling about the pitch at home when one down to WBA isn't acceptable and is not what I want to see in a United shirt. That's not Jose's fault either.
  19. Jul 1, 2018

    haram Full Member

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    Mourinho also literally signed Mkhi and gave him several chances. Lingard replaced him and we are much better off.
  20. Jul 1, 2018

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    This is the post that made me think that the statements some have made on here about it being a mods WUM account actually being true.
  21. Jul 1, 2018

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    I suppose it’s not Jose’s fault that he split up with his baby mama 2 seasons ago and family issues to??

    Get out of Jose’s arse for a second and smell the croissants will yah!
  22. Jul 1, 2018

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    This is challenging rawk for cringe levels.

    Litterallly made me grimace and turn away from the screen
  23. Jul 1, 2018

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    Good post. So good you said it twice !
  24. Jul 1, 2018

    GM K Full Member

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    I have a feeling Jose believes that if a player can't bear being rotated or fighting for a shirt and wants out on that basis, he is mentally weak. On the other hand,Jose might genuinely not want players to be unhappy (i.e if they want out) as he has insinuated a few times so he lets them go when they ask to go. But once he knows a player prefers to leave, he stops playing him regularly to focus on those he reckons will be with him for the long term.
  25. Jul 2, 2018

    TheReligion Abusive

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    All the news from the club is he's going nowhere.

    Reports state Spurs have been scared off and Juve told to forget it. With two years on his contract United firmly in the driving seat with this one.
  26. Jul 2, 2018

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    I think you are underestimating the pull of a new stadium. I just hope that he has not had his head turned by Exeter city building a 1600 capacity stand.
  27. Jul 2, 2018

    TheReligion Abusive

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    :lol:
  28. Jul 2, 2018

    Oldyella Full Member

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    Good. Although I hope we are not just keeping him 'because' and he actually gets a fair crack. Still think signing Sanchez when we already had 2 good young players fighting it out for the one spot on LW has caused more problems than his performances have been worth.
  29. Jul 2, 2018

    DarkChildUTD Banned

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    It has been claimed Martial has bad off the ball movement. Why do we have coaches at united if not a single one can correct this? If it's all up to the players to improve by themselves and play brilliant football thenwhy waste money on the manager and coaches?
  30. Jul 2, 2018

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    The whole point is that he is not listening to the coaches and manger.

    They can’t play for him. It’s about time people realised that he has to take at least some responsibility for something... anything.

    I can’t imagine the coaches are saying “ hey Tony, make sure you don’t move and mope about as much as possible”
  31. Jul 3, 2018

    Ashley R1+O New Member

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    I don't think it can be doubted, completely agree. There is a definite gap that Martial needs to overcome not just for the clubs sake but for his own sake. This year is a real crossroads year for him.
  32. Jul 3, 2018

    redIndianDevil Full Member

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    If all the others are listening to the coaches, why are they so shite and as bad as Martial?
  33. Jul 3, 2018

    EyeInTheSky Full Member

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    So shite that we finished 2nd and won 2 trophies after getting to 3 finals in 2 years.

    Also just like every other manager players that consistently don’t listen get left out.

    Your post is shite. Every post I have seen from you is shite. Welcome to the ignore garbage heap.
  34. Jul 3, 2018

    KM I’m afraid I just blue myself Staff

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  35. Jul 3, 2018

    do.ob Full Member

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    ;)
  36. Jul 3, 2018

    Decomposing In Paris Full Member

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    Martial is going to get better over the next few years whether he's here or not. This idea that a 25 year old Martial playing for Poch is likely to be better than a 22 year old Martial playing for Jose is probably true, but not for the reason people usually jump to.
  37. Jul 3, 2018

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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  38. Jul 3, 2018

    Smores Full Member

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    Wow what a view of how football works :houllier:

    I didn't realise all those players at top clubs who have failed due to poor footballing brains only failed because the coaches forgot to tell them what to do.
  39. Jul 3, 2018

    breakout67 Full Member

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    Do players turn world class overnight in your head? Lingard took an age to improve his goalscoring and strength, these things require time and practice. Pogba also needed a few years at Juventus to stop losing the ball all the time and have a better final ball.

    Martial is not a freak talent that is a complete player by 21. He'll be a top top player in 2-3 years.
  40. Jul 3, 2018

    IrishRedDevil Full Member

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    What? lol. I suppose Martial, the most laid back person around, was completely blown away by it all and devastated at the mere thought of having to return to the slums of Carrington.
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