British Core

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by devilish, May 12, 2019.

  1. Jul 3, 2019

    ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg Full Member

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    You realise that core means exactly that - a core?!

    It doesn’t mean that Utd are shutting down the barriers to Johnny Foreigner does it - don’t be so ridiculously over dramatic. Utd aren’t suddenly going to only buy British Beef - are they?

    There is absoubtly no need to bring in squad players on obscene wages like Fred and Rojo when McTommney and the likes can fill those roles.

    Utd’s lack of strategy in the transfer market, and scattergun approach has been one of our biggest issues - at least this is a strategy. I can assure you we will still be trying to buy top quality players from across the world as well.
  2. Jul 3, 2019

    Schmeichel's Cartwheel Full Member

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    Do you know what core means? Every great United side has had a strong UK/Irish core. Ferdinand, Carrick & Rooney were core players to our last CL win. Having a British core does not mean turning our nose up at foreign signings.

    As mentioned, why have Rojo on 100k a week when Tuanzebe can fill the same spot with the same or greater results for £20k? Why have Fred on £200k a week when McTominay can do the exact same thing for £30k?
  3. Jul 3, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    I do know what British core means and honestly I don't understand it. Do you think we've bought Ferdinand, Carrick and Rooney because of their nationality? Or did we bought them for their talent? I am pretty sure that we went for the latter as testified when we bought foreign talent like Ronaldo, Ole, Schmeichel, Cantona etc.

    Regarding your second comment that was Sir Alex Way of doing things which differs from the 'British core' and which I agree completely with. In his prime Sir Alex would buy talent irrespective on where it came from. He would then boost the squad with talent coming from the academy irrespective were it came from as well. Don't forget that the same guy who encouraged the likes of Wes or Beckham to join the academy did the same with Pique, Pogba, Rossi and the twins.

    The current strategy doesn't make sense. For example prime Sir Alex would never go for a meah defender for 70m whose main asset seem to be being British. He would either promote from within or buy from abroad.
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  4. Jul 3, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    Scouts form part of the recruitment team or work hand in hand. They are the ones who suggest the players the club should buy. Many pundits of late had discussed the situation in our scouting team as ridiculous. Our scouting department is ridiculously large and its mostly made up of the 4 previous administrations. Considering the different approaches Sir Alex, Moyes, LVG and Mou had, I often wonder how the hell these guys come to a consensus. Take the CB as an example. LVG's men would put ball playing defenders at top priority while someone like Moyes would prefer physicality, strength and aerial prowess. How would they decide if a promising defender is worth buying or not? Under such circumstances I won't be surprised if Ole is ignoring them all and is aiming on the players he knows and trusts.
  5. Jul 3, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    We have signed plenty of players for the academy, I mean foreign youngsters.
  6. Jul 3, 2019

    Church o Choccy Full Member

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    I'm sure it's not true but every time I hear someone talk about wanting a "British core" to a team I just assume they're the kind of person who voted for Brexit and claim to have attended the "University of life".
  7. Jul 3, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    And you are blaming for recruitment team not signing players under the assumption that scouts didn't find young players. We have signed many players for the academy and players like Dembele who moved from Rennes to Dortmund was knows to regular user on caf, same with so many youngsters. Just because our management/recruitment team didn't sign them doesn't mean they weren't recommended or scouted. There is only so much they can do.
  8. Jul 3, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    All started during Sir Alex time who was the first to take the brilliant decision to spread the youth scouting net outside the UK. Decades before Sir Matt fought and won against the FA to participate to the European cup, a decision that costed us an entire team at Munich. There is absolutely nothing insular about the United's way quite the contrary.
  9. Jul 3, 2019

    Beachryan More helpful with spreadsheets than Phurry

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    Honestly and cynically I think it's just easy to explain to Ed. Even he would get the logic, and it's catchy and allows us a new motto.

    Will it work? Does he care?
  10. Jul 3, 2019

    ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg Full Member

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    It’s idiotic to think the only reason Maguire is being pursued is because he’s English.

    It’s been debated so many times over the last few weeks, there is a dearth of CBs available that will improve us. Improve is the important aspect - that means no more £20/30m punts like Bailly or Rojo. Derided as they often are, and noting they are not top class players, Smalling and Lindelof are reasonable CBs (although it’s an area we clearly need to improve on), so my point is therefore, that we need someone you can step into the the team immediately and improve us.

    Aside from Toby, I see no realistic alternative (considering availability, experience and age). I can see why we are not pursuing Toby due to his likely salary demands.
  11. Jul 3, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    I am not interested in any blaming game really. Also note that my comment regarding the scouting team is not something I came out with it myself. Other pundits including Gaz (I think) mentioned it as well.

    My aim is to understand what's going on under the scenes as I find it very odd that the club is focusing mostly on British talent especially considering the inflated prices these talent usually have. I am not surprised if Ole had decided not to trust these people too much a decision which I can honestly understand. Their record in the past 7 years or so had been shocking
  12. Jul 3, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    Not sure what you are arguing about or your point is.

    Signing British players and Foreign players for first team and academy was followed under SAF and same is followed now. If anything we stopped signing British players since SAF retired and only worthwhile signing was Luke Shaw.

    If we had SAF there is a good chance we would have signed Maguire and Robertson when Hull were relegated.
  13. Jul 3, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    He's certainly not a 70m rated CB. He's slow, his ball control is good but hardly world class and so is his defensive skills. A club with 50 scouts + can come out with far cheaper alternatives to him. There again, those 50 scouts and so track record had been horrible for the past 6-7 years or so. Could it be the case that Ole doesn't trust them enough and had gone on players he monitored and trust?
  14. Jul 3, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    I think my argument is quite clear to understand. Sir Alex went for talent, attitude and value not nationality. He couldn't care less about his player's nationality. I do agree with your second comment though. If Sir Alex wanted Maguire and Robertson then he would have signed them when Hull were relegated. He wouldn't sign Maguire now for 70m, that's for sure.
  15. Jul 3, 2019

    RedorDead21 Full Member

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    His ball control is better than John Terry or Van Dijk? He's a very good CB. Experienced internationally and in the PL. Not a worldy ok but has other plus points. Won't be looking for a big European move. People overlook a player who could give solid 7/10 performances every single week which is odd as we haven't had a defender capable of that in around 10 years.
  16. Jul 3, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    They used to say the same about the chuckle brothers. Look at them. I think he's a slight upgrade on Steve Bruce, a 40m max defender.
  17. Jul 3, 2019

    Untd55 New Member

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    Van Dijk wasn't either. A lot of people were saying he was overvalued and cost too much. Sometimes people forget that it is only since he has joined Liverpool has he ever been considered close to world class.

    It is easy in hindsight to say that he was worth £75m, but at the time he certainly was not considered to be that value.

    Maguire might be a lot better for us than people think.
  18. Jul 3, 2019

    TheRedDevil'sAdvocate Full Member

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    I think i agree with you. Presumably, when Mourinho asked for Maguire, he was told by Ed to work with what he has at his disposal. One season later, Ole sells "the British core" plan rather well and Ed seems more than willing to splash the cash for Maguire. One key factor is that, if it all goes down the drain, the blame will be placed on Solskjaer's shoulders.
  19. Jul 3, 2019

    RedorDead21 Full Member

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    Clubs have got increased PL revenues in the last few seasons. It's not your money. It's one club taking this increased revenue from another. The clubs have not even had to earn the increase in revenue...it's all irrelevant to a fan financially. His ability is all that matters and every club in the PL would improve with him. The top 2 as well. And If we can get 11 players where that statement is true.....that's the job nearly done.
  20. Jul 3, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    There is a difference when comparing the different leagues in terms of local talent. Barca and Madrid obviously have the best pool in terms of local talent and so you can say about Dortmund and Bayern. Spanish and German national teams have been excellent in the past 15 years so naturally their talent is well established. England on the other hand...

    3-4 British players isn't enough IMO to put it as a core(or at least have what we're looking at). As you said when Fergie was at helm we usually had 5-6 at least - that to me looks like a core, and neither of the top teams have 5-6 British players in the starting line up or being their absolute starters.

    Even Spurs have Son, Eriksen, Toby, Vertonghen, Lloris, Sissoko, Moura as their best players apart from Kane and Alli. They of course have British player but are more rotational or fringe in terms of being replaceable in the first team(like Trippier, Rose, Winks).

    From the vibes I'm getting we are looking at 5-6 starters as Brits, not rotational first teamers.
  21. Jul 3, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    Call me old fashioned but I don't like to see United spending ridiculous money on average players
  22. Jul 3, 2019

    ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg Full Member

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    The Alex Ferguson who didn’t sign Ferdinand when he left West Ham, and then signed him for a World Record 18 months later?

    I’m not criticising SAF here at all, but to say he would do this or that is a futile exercise - especially when I can easily come up with a counter. Neither of know what we would/ wouldn’t do.
  23. Jul 3, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    Van dijk was a way better CB then Maguire is
  24. Jul 3, 2019

    matt10000 New Member

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    Ironically, such assumptions make you as presumptuous and bigoted as you think the people who voted Brexit and claim to have attended the University of life are.
  25. Jul 3, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    Sir Alex was extremely picky on defenders coming on a huge fee in fact he did pretty much the same with Stam. The Dutch had to renounce to his signing on fee bonus to keep the fee down else we wouldn't have signed him up. Which kind of strengthen my argument that he wouldn't go for Maguire for 70m.

    If Sir Alex was in Ole's situation then he'll either promote from within (Tuanzebe) or he would buy a Vidic like defender for 20m-30m. I can see him going for Joachim Andersen. He's got a Sir Alex type of signing written all over him
  26. Jul 3, 2019

    ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg Full Member

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    Don’t agree at all SAF who broke the British record for signing defenders on perhaps 3 occasions, Parker (not 100%), Pallister (definitely), Stam (pretty sure), and then spent a world record on Ferdinand.

    We have bought ‘punts’ like Vidic in Bailly, Lindelof and Rojo - that’s not working very well at all.
  27. Jul 3, 2019

    UpWithRivers Full Member

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    What does British core even mean. Im pretty sure no fker even knows. 3 players, 4, 5? 10? So lets say the rule is 4 first teamers. One gets injured for half a season and the team win the champions league. Did that team win with a British core? Its a stupid nonsensical, idiotic statement that's bounded about that makes no logical sense whatsoever.
  28. Jul 3, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    For me if it's 3-4 I consider that as a core. Can't expect more than that.

    Hopefully we don't fill the team with them for the sake of it.
  29. Jul 3, 2019

    Ooge_ New Member

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    I see three different aspects in Team building for a football club:

    (i) A good stack with: A core of your nations best players + Top foreign players + promising offsprings
    (ii) A right mix of characters in your squad (team players, leaders and individualist)
    (iii) All players scouted by profiles for a position and the LvGs TIC-Model (Technique, Intelligence, Character)
  30. Jul 3, 2019

    RedorDead21 Full Member

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    If he was average he would not be a starter for every single PL team, the strongest league in world football. City and United wouldn't be both involved. We have nothing but average CBs. This lad is a very good CB.
  31. Jul 3, 2019

    Hammondo New Member

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    Or a lot worse like Stones.
  32. Jul 3, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    Well United have Jones and City have Stones so
  33. Jul 3, 2019

    RedorDead21 Full Member

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    It all comes back to not trusting the manager? We have to let Ole pick his CB and then judge. Mou wanted this guy, Pep wants this guy, so would Klopp if he could get him........Hell even Gary Neville said what we all know..every club would want him. Stones had it all to prove when he moved to City. Maguire is 26/27 and our best international defender!
  34. Jul 3, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    As said, he was reluctant on Ferdinand (at West Ham) and the club forced Stam to renounce to his bonus. I can't see Sir Alex buying Steve Bruce MK2 for 70m.
  35. Jul 3, 2019

    RedorDead21 Full Member

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    Silly point every club in the world makes some poor choices. This is Ole trying to put a cornerstone down for a player highly coveted in a market with little supply and every club having record levels of cash to spend!
  36. Jul 3, 2019

    RedorDead21 Full Member

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    Steve Bruce would stand out in our defence right now so strange point. As would the likes of Dennis Irwin. No one would prob want to pay 70m for him either but there you go. Lets not derail the conversation even further. You'll be writing comments like "Happy to say I was wrong about this guy" before Christmas.
  37. Jul 3, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    All I am saying is that our CB's success rate isn't very high. The only difference is that while Shitty can tank a 70m failure, I doubt we can say the same for us. I mean look at Jones. He's been shit for us for most of his career and he's still here.
  38. Jul 3, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    People just take it to extremes as always. Like few mentioned, signing couple of British players doesn't mean club won't sign any foreign players.
  39. Jul 3, 2019

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    Please don't put Bruce at the same level of Irwin. The latter was WC something Bruce never was.

    If we sign Maguire up then I hope he's a massive success. There's no doubt about that. Actually I have an idea of how Maguire can be a success in our defence and in many ways we've already had done most of the arrangements to make it work. However as said, we shouldn't be making accommodations to turn a 70m rated CB into a success.
  40. Jul 3, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    We currently have 3-4 in our ranks I think.

    Shaw and Rashford seems nailed on starters. Smalling for lack of better alternatives would start in most of the games. We also have Lingard, Jones, McTomminay on the fringes. To me we are looking at 5-6 or even 7 regular starters as a plan.

    The interesting part is that we haven't really been linked to a striker so far. Few names would give us a hint of whether we're right or not I guess.