Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by Walters_19_MuFc, Mar 24, 2019.
Legal issues aside, aren't betting wins capped at 500k
Something is really not right. I am concerned.
Depends if they class transfer betting as secondary football market
gut feel 500k would be max and for transfers as its so easy to profot with insider knowledge I suspect they impose a far lower payout
For sure though its not a loophole that could be exploited - even without you say the legal / ethical points it would raise
Yes they are. You could use several different bookies but you'd never accumulate millions.
Got the sinking feeling that we've dithered too much on this one and lost out.
I don't think we've even put a formal bid in yet, or have we..?
I haven't heard of a formal bid going in yet.
We can not pay inflated fee.
Why say they will meet the price at first and then change, as he always do.
No other club meets an inflated prices.Can bring it down to 55m euros with proper negotiating.
He's way more incisive on the last third of the pitch than Herrera though. Better passer and way better shooter.
on those sort of markets, the stakes are restricted much lower than that even. I'd be surprised if one of us could get £10k on, let alone Woodward!
Tbf. Herrera was more attacking minded -- and looked a proper attacking midfielder when in Spain.... before coming to United.
he would never have carried the same goal threat though, albeit he played in a harder league.
I didn’t say that. At all. That being said though, we were much more solid with Mkhitaryan/ Rooney in Herrera’s place in the 4-2-3-1 under Mourinho.
Ok well i can agree there. He was posturing to the market (stock) and that was in contradiction to negotiation benefit. Either way though accounts are published which allow comparison of wages as a proportion of revenue and in isolation. Or in isolation profit alone is a fairly useful metric for finance availability.
So any sensible negotiator would have metrics to hand to counter arguments over insufficient wealth.
The reality though is the market is driven by supply and demand. City set the bench for what can be expected for an English wingback for example.
Liverpool with players like Carroll pushed the market up for players with a small window of proof.
PSG pushed the whole market in terms of ceiling.
United actually haven't done too much to push the market. Even where we have transfer records they have looked normal from a standard deviation point of view once player inflation and individual quality as a whole is considered.
Sanchez might be one that counters this, but when you hear salaries of Bale, Griezmann, Neymar, etc you start to realise its not the salary we paid, but the return on that salary. From a pure price point of view i would argue it was in keeping for a player with his game changing history. The failure was in assuming his last season of dropped form at Arsenal was an anomaly as opposed to the start of a downwards trajectory.
Now you are just being greedy.
And no, I wasn't being serious for some reason my emojis don't show on my posts
You said a new DM destroyer, Pogba n Fernandes. Im telling you that wouldn't work.
Also Rooney ran his ballacks off for us, that's why. Pogba doesn't come close to those levels of effort. He stops running way too much when he loses the ball.
A CEO will be there to challenge, e.g. questioning the long term value or the shory term ROI for an older player. The fact this is about players as opposed to pieces of equipment, or a salesmens book of clients is irrelevant. Woodward is a CEO because he understands commercial value.
Judge and the scouting team are responsible for putting forward the potential investments. A CEO should rarely interfere at this level, but as you say he will need to weigh up the funds available. Additional funding might require an extension of financing terms and this can cost millions in itself. Changing banking covenants requires financial due diligence with internal and external scrutiny and massive up front costs.
Extending contracts is a dual benefit of protecting the value in the assets and reducing investment required. Jones for example is just 27 and undoubtedly would have some commercial value. Extending him is also very likely more economically sensible than buying a new 4/5th choice CB.
Fellaini is a perfect example of that where we made £10m by extending him, less once salary paid for 6m is taken into account but either way that now looks a sensible renewal.
Young similarly would be seen as a versatile, probably relatively cheap renewal. I would imagine his commitment and positive influence were factors taken into account. Ole/ Judge would have led on this, but Woodward will of course overrule decisions that he feels are economically depreciative.
This is relatively mutually exclusive to the subsequent decision of who can be sold and for what return. And a positive action of the renewal could subsequently be a negative action if struggling to sell the player and a future replacement becoming available in this position.
For example, if we can't shift one of our CB's getting an upgrade may not be viable and the overall value could be worse off than having let the player go for free.
Paddy Power have him in 1/9 to join scousers.
The way United do transfers is a joke. We've been haggling a price for Wan Bissaka for 3 weeks and you can bet your life if we sign him they'll have paid what Palace originally have asked. We operate like we are a Championship club with very little revenue. It's like Eds going in and saying we'll give u this plus some amazon vouchers that you can't spend until 2025.
Listen to less United Stand.
Frankly we don’t know the inner workings of all of these transfers. From what we’ve heard we’re offering what palace want, just trying to work out how it will be paid, up front, instalments, add ons. That could also be bull. Secondly, think of how many transfers we’ve had in recent years that come out of no where over the course of a day. This could be happening now, who knows??
Don't know if we will get Fernandes now.Not willing to pay what they are looking for.Liverpool now favourites.
The payment to the club of £70m and a bet of £20m equal £90m. you will only get £70m back from the bet (5/2)
In all sorts of industries what you describe is very close to the truth, i.e. there is someone who puts the restraint on spending. Wether that person is the CEO, Finance Director or some other title but these people don't carry out the duties of buying and selling themselves although they might well have a final say in things. They don't usually carry out the whole process themselves but would give guidelines for the process and carry out the signing of the final contract. This is what I understand happens at most clubs and it appears to work fine.
As for contract extensions it is clear to almost anybody who understands football that Phil Jones will be a very difficult player to offload. Partly because of his injury history and also because of his already inflated salary. My bet is that eventually Jones will retire from football at Utd or leave on a free in about three or four years having barely kicked a ball in the meantime. This may have cost more in the long run than encouraging him to stay. Fellaini was in a better position because he was a better player, less injury prone and someone wanted to buy him although the new manager obviously didn't want him. Your argument regarding Young may be slightly more accurate as I believe along with Smalling he may yet get time to play a few games for Utd. Giving these players extended contracts when they are not in a strong position to negotiate is not necessarily good business as it can also discourage young talent at the club as they may think they have too many players in front of them before they break into the team.
I have no doubt that however the finances/transfers work in fine detail, the end product is that Utd always appear to make the going difficult for themselves and it is getting worse. If anyone at the club uttered the phrase " if we in the Champions League " during negotiations for Wan-Bissaka then they need taking outside and shooting.
I still believe Woodward has far too much input personally in our transfer negotiations and the latest example confirms that. It was anyone that CP were going to play hardball because they have no need to sell a player on along contract with a bright future but still Ed started with a low offer with add ons. Palace had already stated what an acceptable figure would be and we will end up paying roughly that fee £60M almost two weeks after proceedings started. If this is going to be the norm then we will end up with very few transfers or they will only be completed a week before the deadline.
If Woodward is indeed only the guiding light to the transfer negotiations then he needs to sack those responsible for the latest shenanigans or the contract handed to Sanchez.
New DM destroyer and Pogba in a midfield two with Fernandes off the striker in a 4-2-3-1 midfield set up, yes. Similar configurations have worked before, no good reason to think otherwise now.
By that point Rooney was finished and a liability both in and out of possession. It is laughable to suggest he was the reason the midfield structure was solid or worked overall or anything else positive.
Getting this guy is better or Ndombele? With Pogba staying at the club for another year at least
Rooney at his best was far better than Pogba has been for us. Rooney at his worst is probably on par with Pogba. That's the levels we are talking here.
Let’s not start being silly now. And what has that got to do with how practical a midfield involving Pogba and Fernandes would be?
I would be very surprised if Liverpool signed him.
We currently have 7 first team players for 3 midfield places and Klopp has said that there are no plans for major signings this summer.
Sporting Lisbon are currently in talks with Liverpool over a deal for one of our youth team players (Rafa Camacho) so I think some people have maybe seen certain parties together and jumped to the wrong conclusion.
Who's being silly? Rooney wasn't playing much worse under LVG than Pogba has been. There really wasn't that much in it.
Rooney tried much harder than that fraud ever has for us. Pogba will never be in same league as Rooney for me. He's talented but a flawed player.
Also Pogba, Fernandes in a 3 man midfield would be asking for trouble. Neither are defensive players. That would leave the DM too much to do.
Rooney at his worst was worse than me
Is fernandes clueless defensively or lacking positional sense to play as an 8?
Pogba at his worse was worse than that. Take that 10 game run away and he's been shocking once again.
Why do our fans love him so much. He's left us once, come back and done nothing. Now wants out again. He's a drama queen and a fraud. Not fit to lace Rooney's boots.
He's a million miles off the player he thinks he is. Too busy with all the other crap that comes with brand Pogba. Can't wait see the back of him.
How about a totally ridiculous magic rectangle 4-2-2-2, with two defensive midfielders, Pogba and Fernandes, and then Rashford and... Er... Martial? Who needs wide beanz? I mean players. Who needs wide players?
Has worked for Spurs on occasion. You need decent attacking fullbacks though, to provide the width - we don't have any.
C'mon. You're underestimating him. Did you see those stats of his? Of course you did. He's out best by a country mile. And he's also our most marketable player. So, in essence, he's invaluable. But, if he wants to go then get rid!
Can't the front two be extra wide forwards and let the other two push up through the middle?
Plenty don't love him. You only have to read the various threads about him to see more and more are giving up on the guy. I think a big turning point in this took place when his form dipped again after Solskjaer had taken over. This of course has it's own surrounding issues but that's a whole other conversation.
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