Bundesliga 2018/19

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by uamini, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. Nov 5, 2018

    2ndTouch Full Member

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    Well, he made it through October, so Kovac actually surpassed my personal expectations... But boy, do we suck right now. It's been years since we offered the current amount of awful football, flatout disgusting.
    What I'm hoping for is a proper spanking. Kovac is completely out of his depth, tactically as well as personally. The sooner he's gone, the better. For that to happen, a corresponding result on Saturday would do nicely, making it much harder for Uli to maintain his delusion.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2018
  2. Nov 5, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

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    I wonder who Kovac will end up coaching next?
  3. Nov 5, 2018

    do.ob Full Member

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    Kicker apparently wrote that Bayern's bosses are aware of the issues, but want to work through them with Kovac. They explicitly reported that a loss in Dortmund would not change that.
  4. Nov 6, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

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    Read a good few Bayern fans stating that Kovac is out of his depth.

    Would any like to give more detail as to why?
  5. Nov 6, 2018

    strongwalker Full Member

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    true that.
    TBH the current state of the team is about 10% Kovacs doing. 90% is the Managements abysmal decision making the past 2.5 years. Still Kovac seems to have managed to alienize 70% of the squad, so i wont shed a tear if he walks, but - replacing the coach will change exactly 0.0%
  6. Nov 6, 2018

    hasanejaz88 Full Member

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    Muller had a falling out I guess, based on his wife's insta post. Any other players rumoured?

    I do agree with the part about these performances being mostly the managements fault, they've been abysmal in improving the offensive part of the squad.
  7. Nov 6, 2018

    2ndTouch Full Member

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    Nah, his contribution to the current mess is far bigger. Of course the misery started with our board appointing this fraud in the first place, but in the end it is still him who plays the bigger part in this ongoing process of degeneration.
    He has it all covered: Complete lack of an idea how to orchestrate a cohesive attacking unit? check. No idea how to break down bus-parking opposition? check. Non-existing man management skills when it comes to dealing with Star Players? check.
    So, while I don't think of simply replacing him as being the ticket to greener pastures on by itself either, it would be an important step at least.
    Just please don't let it be Hasenhüttl:nervous:(..it's gonna be Hasenhüttl fo sho)
  8. Nov 6, 2018

    do.ob Full Member

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    Müller, Ribery, Robben and Hummels are named in the press.


    While they obviously should have done more transfers I don't think the reason for Bayern's problems is one-sided. They are basically playing with the same team as last season minus Bernat (who didn't play any important matches anyway) and with Goretzka for Vidal (who is past it).
    I think what the bosses deserve criticism for is still relying on Ribery/Robben and having a puppet for a DoF, so they are significantly weaker than a few years ago. On the other hand the squad is still the best in the league, made the CL semi last season and held Real to two very close matches.
    The other side of the coin is that Kovac is not doing his part, he seems to have lost the dressing room in record time (which is the main reason why BRAZZO's weakness plays such a big role in the media), he's dropping points left and right against teams that have no right to challenge Bayern and his players seem to be complaining that he has no ideas how to fix their attacking woes (which can't be written off as personell issues).

    Does anyone think Heynckes would be in such a dire spot at this moment? With Dortmund showing a bit of strength he probably wouldn't be cruising to another title and maybe he would be second, but not by four points and not with a dozen moles in the squad or WAGs calling him a moron in public.
  9. Nov 6, 2018

    hasanejaz88 Full Member

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    While it's true that Heynckes would not have had as difficult a time as Kovac is having at the moment, and that is partly down to Heynckes greater ability as a coach, you have to recognize that Heynckes knows the players that form the core of the team very well while Kovac has just entered the job. You can't compare Heynckes to Kovac in that regard, Heynckes has a great advantage over Kovac in that he has already managed these players before.

    Comparing to last season is also not valid because Ribery and Robben are progressively getting worse with age, you can't expect both of them to continue playing they have done in previously seasons. Both were major parts of Bayern's attack last season, so as they get worse so will Bayern's attacking ability.

    While I don't think Kovac is a coach with the ability to manage Bayern (he's like Moyes at United), I think a lot of blame should also be taken by the Bayern board for their lack of urgency in improving the squad.
  10. Nov 6, 2018

    RobinLFC knows Klopp is a hypocrite

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    German residents, any idea when the exact dates for Matchday 17 (21-23 December) are announced? I'm in Köln that weekend and wanted to know which day Leverkusen will play. If it's the 22nd and not the 23th I'll have to settle for Köln-Bochum.
  11. Nov 6, 2018

    Balu Full Member

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    This week. Matchdays 15 to 18 will be announced between November 5th and 11th.
  12. Nov 6, 2018

    RobinLFC knows Klopp is a hypocrite

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    Ah perfect, cheers! Hopefully either Leverkusen or Dortmund will play Sunday afternoon then.
  13. Nov 6, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

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    I'm in Germany myself next month for Eintracht's match in Berlin.

    Thankfully this match time is fixed but from the weekend following (December 14-16) they are not fixed.

    It seems quite late that kick off times for mid December still haven't been confirmed.
    When it comes to arranging kick off times Bundesliga authorities are better now than they used to be, so I hope they're not slipping back to the bad old ways.
  14. Nov 6, 2018

    do.ob Full Member

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    As was already said fixtures have not been scheduled yet, but since Leverkusen are playing EL and already had their fair share of sunday/monday fixtures it would be quite surprising/insensitive if they got another one.

    I just used Heynckes as the most obvious example. Tuchel has won just as little as Kovac, but he's breaking records at PSG, Favre (obviously Dortmund is a lesser task in that regard) has players eating out of his palm at Dortmund, despite freezing out Götze or Kagawa.
    Imho it's rather irrelevant who you know, what you've won or how nice you are. The important thing is that you offer a tactical philosophy which players can get behind and that they believe you'll make them better.

    Nagelsmann is another example of this. He was younger than a couple of his players when he took over a Hoffenheim that looked like an all but certain candidate for relegation. Yet he seemed to have no problems turning things around, playing good football even.

    On the other hand Ancelotti, despite his experience, reputation and impressive trophy haul, suffered from the same problems as Kovac.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  15. Nov 6, 2018

    RobinLFC knows Klopp is a hypocrite

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    Ah yeah, that makes sense indeed. They play in Cyprus the week before so they’ll probably have another Sunday game on the 16th, not the 23th.

    I’ve been to Köln once already and their atmosphere was nice but they were in the Bundesliga at the time, don’t think that makes much of a difference though.
  16. Nov 6, 2018

    do.ob Full Member

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    Afaik they are in a bit of a crisis at the moment, with fans getting frustrated. They still fill their stadium, but if they don't turn things around by christmas the atmosphere might be a bit hostile.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  17. Nov 6, 2018

    Sean_RedDevil Twitter bot

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    Kovac is Bayern's Moyes.
  18. Nov 6, 2018

    kaiser1 New Member

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    Monaco the closest rival to PSG have destroyed their team from within. The test of PSG is seeing how hopeless they have been in the CL only beating Red Star despite having Neymar and Mbappe 2 of the best 5 players in the world while Kovac is sill having to play with Robbery Muller
  19. Nov 7, 2018 at 10:35

    do.ob Full Member

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    @RobinLFC
    DFL has scheduled the matchday before christmas:

    friday:
    18:30 Köln-Bochum
    20:30 Dortmund-Gladbach

    saturday:
    15:30 Leverkusen-Berlin

    sunday:
    13:30 Duisburg-Dresden

    I'm not saying everything is perfect at PSG, particularly in their (hard) CL group. I just haven't heard about Tuchel having anything that's even close to Kovac's problems in Paris.
    And 12 wins in a row (Lille, Lyon and Marseille among their victims) is impressive no matter what.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018 at 10:47
  20. Nov 7, 2018 at 10:39

    RobinLFC knows Klopp is a hypocrite

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    Feck sake, Köln was on Sunday afternoon first and now Dortmund is also Friday evening :lol: Thanks for the update though!

    Damn shame, not really interested in Duisburg-Dresden tbh.
  21. Nov 7, 2018 at 12:54

    Kasper Full Member

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    Dresdens away support is great so you could consider that but yeah, Duisburg is quite boring.
  22. Nov 7, 2018 at 13:57

    RW2 Full Member

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    Leverkusen are at home to Hertha Berlin on Saturday December 22nd, 3.30PM (CET). Confirmed.

    Edit: Apologies. Just saw messages above.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018 at 15:25
  23. Nov 7, 2018 at 14:41

    hasanejaz88 Full Member

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    Tuchel might have won just as little but his teams have been far more impressive and enteripsing than Kovac's. He proved that he could manage a big club like Dortmund to success and therefore was given the opportunity at PSG.

    Again, I don't rate Kovac as a coach (thus the Moyes comparison). I don't think he's fit to take over a big club whose ambitions are to play attacking football. That being said, you can't discount the problems in the squad due to the boards mismanagement. I think many big coaches would've struggled with Bayern, they wouldn't be in as bad a position as now but they wouldn't be walking with the league like in previous seasons.
  24. Nov 7, 2018 at 15:41

    RW2 Full Member

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    The success that Tuchel had at Dortmund was no greater than the success that Kovac had at Eintracht - winning the German Cup.

    I really do not get this love affair with Thomas Tuchel. He did not even come close to challenging Bayern when manager at Dortmund (who are now flying under Favre). Indeed in his second season at Dortmund they lost or drew 16 league matches. Rather than take a challenging position he then takes the easy option and goes to manage a team owned by an oil rich country in the joke French league. Quite frankly a traffic cone would do an equally good job for PSG in the French league.

    But let's look at his results in Europe?
    Has failed to win 3 out of 4 group matches with PSG . . . and they might go out.
    If that happens he's finished.
    No way the Qatari's are going to tolerate that.

    His other experience of European Football was in the Europa League with Mainz. . . where he failed to qualify for the league itself after losing in the qualifying rounds to Gaz Metan Medias (and, yes, I've never heard of them either).
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018 at 15:48
  25. Nov 7, 2018 at 15:49

    hasanejaz88 Full Member

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    I mentioned his style of football looked more suited to a bigger team even while he was at Mainz. Kovac always depended on counter attacking football, which wouldn't work at a big team.

    It's frankly ridiculous to compare Bayern to when Tuchel was manager to what they are now. Tuchel's Dortmund reached 78 points in 2015-16, which was their most since 2011-12 (81); it was a fantastic performance.

    1. It's a very difficult group and their next two matches are winnable (home v Liverpool and away at Red Star). They can easily go through.
    2. The Qatari's will tolerate it because he's still going well in the Ligue 1 and it's his first season.

    They never had the squad to compete and Europe and no one cared about it.
  26. Nov 7, 2018 at 15:55

    RW2 Full Member

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    In Tuchel's second season he failed to win 16 out of Dortmund's 34 league matches. Admittedly he had a good first season but didn't deliver silverware.

    Difficult group. . . No squad to compete. . . Many are always willing to make excuses for Tuchel.

    Difficult group? . . . He's got Neymar, Mbappe & Cavani as his front three FFS. . . He's not at Mainz here.

    Disagree with you on the importance of Ligue 1 to the Qatari's.
    They are obsessed with the Champions League. . . They won't cut Tuchel any slack if PSG go out at the group stage.
  27. Nov 7, 2018 at 16:21

    do.ob Full Member

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    Oh I have no doubt that Tuchel is tactically (far) superior to Kovac, I brought that comparison up because you mentioned Heynckes being familiar with the club and most players, which I don't think is a deciding factor - as Tuchel is an example of.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018 at 16:28
  28. Nov 8, 2018 at 19:51

    Sean_RedDevil Twitter bot

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    I doubt Frankfurt would have won all four EL group stage games with Kovac in charge.
  29. Nov 8, 2018 at 22:25

    Zehner Full Member

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    The sheikh is reportedly a great admirer of Tuchel and rightly so, IMO. Tuchel is a great coach, tactically among the very best and that's exactly what Paris needs. Comparing him to Kovac is downright ridiculous if you ask me. Tuchel's style is much more suited for top teams compared to Kovac's since he's progressive and proactive.

    PSG's problem is primarily that they really miss a strong sparring partner, just like Bayern did throughout their arguably best years under Guardiola. The resemblence is striking, really. A great team, coached by a great coach to heights that allow them to win every game in their league with 50% effort and in the end they go out against weaker teams which are more experienced in playing against opponents which are at least more or less on eye level.
  30. Nov 9, 2018 at 00:07

    kaiser1 New Member

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    I think Tuchel is very overrated maybe because of some fancy geeky theories he knows. Zidane has shown us that football is actually not so complicated to coach.
    Tuchel has always shat on himself in big games. Twice at Anfield he didnt win any vs Napoli, he was actually lucky to get draws. I also remember Bayern smashing him 5-1 because he wanted to play some fancy high line and Boateng was picking it apart with long balls

    So which big game has Tuchel actually delivered in his career to be that highly rated? PSG this year look worse than they have ever been since the Sheikh took over

    He coached Dortmund and loaded the team which as much mediocrity as possible, Emre Mor, Castro, Toprak, Schurrle, Rode Isak

    The lack of sparring partner excuse which is always given for PSG Bayern and Juventus is actually not true. They simply run into 2 of the best teams in the decade Madrid and Barcelona who are playing at a level higher than everyone with 2 of the greatest players of all time. Madrid eliminated Bayern/Juve/PSG last year just like Barca did in 2015

    The English teams with sparring partners, how well have they done? One final in the past 5yrs, Liverpool was fortunate not to run into Barca/Madrid until the final
  31. Nov 9, 2018 at 00:55

    RW2 Full Member

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    Completely agree with this and forgot about his Anfield meltdown when he was at Dortmund.

    The "lack of a sparring partner" appears to be yet another Tuchel excuse that people make up for him. I can see Liverpool beating PSG and knocking them out and the lack of sparring partner is not an issue if Tuchel can't even get PSG out of their group.

    So Tuchel has a make or break match v Liverpool on 28th November. He better deliver the goods because the Qatari's ain't spending pot loads of oil money to be out of the Champions League by November.

    On some of his geeky theories I remember Tuchel's Dortmund were losing 1-0 in Frankfurt a few years back. In the 58th minute of the match (checked it there) he made a treble substitution and I thought at the time. . "Jeez. . . That's just irresponsible". Dortmund lost 2-1.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018 at 01:01
  32. Nov 9, 2018 at 01:13

    RW2 Full Member

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    I am reminded of what I've said about Kovac to other EF fans in the past. . . . As manager he paid far too much respect to our opponents in the past, especially away from home where his record was not great to say the least.

    Last week Eintracht defeated Stuttgart 3-0 away (a real bogey team/place) and did it by playing a front three of Rebic, Haller and Jovic. . . . who blitzed them in the first half.
    Never in a month of Sundays would Kovac play all three (in fact it was the first time they all started together).

    Indeed when I think back Kovac was hopelessly loyal to players with very limited ability (like Marco Fabian) whilst not bringing on skilful attacking youngsters (like Aymen Barkok).

    No wonder Bayern fans are pissed off.
    :lol:
  33. Nov 9, 2018 at 01:24

    kaiser1 New Member

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    Yeah the Anfield meltdown where he led 2-0, 3-1(with 30mins to go) and ended losing 4-3. His PSG at Anfield were even worse. They looked the poorer side both legs vs Napoli. That's despite having 2 of the top 6 players in the world in his squad

    PSG has to WIN vs Liverpool any other result they are out. A draw in Paris and Napoli likely beating RSBelgrade in Naples the group looks like this
    Napoli 9
    Liverpool 7
    PSG 6
    This situation qualifies Napoli before matchday 6 because Napoli has a better head to head vs PSG and can afford to lose at Anfield(which is the likely result)

    PSG vs Liverpool is the game that will likely make or (likely)break the Tuchel myth
  34. Nov 9, 2018 at 11:15

    FootballHQ Full Member

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    Blimey what's happened to the annual 8 week winter break? Playing two days before xmas?!:eek:
  35. Nov 9, 2018 at 11:15

    FootballHQ Full Member

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    Talking about managers I see Nagelsmann has turned it around at Hoffenheim as predicted.
  36. Nov 9, 2018 at 11:36

    Zehner Full Member

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    Tuchel always went into big games as an underdog. This is his first clearly world class team. Before taking over Paris he always overachieved. International fixtures are difficult if you have no national competitor on eye level and that's their biggest problem. Still they had Liverpool in their pocket by the way.

    This is the same superficial criticism thqt Guardiola faces. Tuchel is absolutely brillant.

    Also everybody who thinks that Zidane isn't tactically at least very good is naive. Look at the dominant squads he created after taking over a team that was shaped by two reactive managers. By now you should know that simply fielding 11 good players and keeping them motivated and happy won't get you anywhere. There isn't a single tactically weak top coach at the moment. Not even Ancelotti.
  37. Nov 9, 2018 at 12:07

    kaiser1 New Member

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    You mean Dortmund in 2016 went into the Liverpool game as an underdog? 2016 was Klopp's first season and Liverpool haven't made any impact in Europe for a long time while Dortmund were CL finalists, quarter finalists under Klopp just before 2016.
    Liverpool lined up with Mignolet, Clyne Origi, Sakho, Moreno Milner Coutinho but Dortmund with Weidenfeller, Schmelzer, Reus, Auba, Mhki, Hummels, Sokratis Gundogan(5 of the players who made the CL final) were the underdog?

    Tuchel always overachieved how? a winning percent of 39% at Mainz
    At Dortmund took the 2nd best team in the league to finish 2nd and 3rd. So much over-achievement.
    The only title he has won in his career is the DFB Pokal.

    Is PSG also an underdog to Liverpool and Napoli?
    Had Liverpool in their pockets? Liverpool had 17 shots to PSG 9. How's that having them in pocket?
    First leg vs Napoli lucky to get a last minute equalizer at home,
    This week vs Napoli again outshot 20 to 9. Despite having an attack of Cavani, DiMaria, Neymar and Mbappe vs Mertens Insigne Callejon
    When will Tuchel show this so called brilliance in big games.

    With no National competitor, PSG never struggled in the group stages, They beat many top teams(Chelsea in back to back seasons) but with Tuchel outplayed, outshot by Napoli

    Zidane played his simple 433, Brought in Casemiro into the midfield for balance to replace James, didnt try to force James, Kroos, Isco, Modric into a midfield 3 without a solid DM behind them unlike his predecessors
    No ridiculous high line, no 3 at the back experiment and won most of his big games
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018 at 12:13
  38. Nov 9, 2018 at 12:25

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    :lol:
  39. Nov 9, 2018 at 13:48

    Zehner Full Member

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    So when Klopp was in his first year at Liverpool that's a valid argument for you but when Tuchel is at Dortmund or PSG it doesn't count?

    The simple fact is Dortmund were at shambles immediately before and after Tuchel whom tjey finisjed 2nd and 3rd with and who won them the DFB Pokal against a Bayern side that had dominated the national competitions for years. Ah, and he'd already have a league if there hadn't been a certain Guardiola at Bayern who's more or less guarantee for winning at least 2 out of 3 league compeitions on average if provided with a suiting squad. 39 winning percentage is absolutely amazing considering when Tuchel took over Mainz by the way.

    So yes, he overachieved everywhere except for PSG. And you can't overachieve their because the expectations are that high. By the way, they are in a group with last year's CL finalist and the second best team in Italy which achieved how many points again last year, 90? So be patient, this is already the best PSG team to date

    You'd be leading in the league by a country mile if you had appointed Tuchel as your coach.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018 at 13:54
  40. Nov 9, 2018 at 17:12

    kaiser1 New Member

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    Before Liverpool met Dortmund. Liverpool had not done anything in Europe for almost 7yrs and were barely qualifying for the CL unlike Dortmund that was a CL knockout regular. The quality of players on both sides also point to the fact that Dortmund had better players.

    You haven't explained how the second richest and most talented team in Germany overachieved by finishing 2nd and 3rd. Klopp overachieved by winning the league twice and reaching the CL final with Dortmund not Tuchel who finished 2nd and 3rd. If Favre also finish 2nd or 3rd will he be overachieving too?

    Getting outplayed and trailing Napoli and Liverpool with one of the most expensively assembled squad in football is now an achievement? Belgrade and Napoli defeated this CL finalist we are talking about here