Bundesliga 2018/19

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by uamini, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. Nov 24, 2018

    Sphaero Struggling to explain his genius to the hoi polloi

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    4,343
    Location:
    Potsdam, Germany
    Supports:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Just saw the other results. Bayern and Hoffenheim drawing, Leipzig losing in Wolfsburg. That is some damn sweet play day for us so far :drool:
  2. Nov 24, 2018

    PedroMendez Acolyte

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    8,657
    Location:
    the other Santa Teresa
    The line-up, tactics, the subs, conceding three against Düsseldorf, the shape of the team.....There is nobody in Munich, who isn't to some degree culpable, but Kovac is worse than I thought and I expected him to be really bad. He is literally moyesing it.
  3. Nov 24, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2014
    Messages:
    1,332
    Supports:
    Eintracht Frankfurt
    He can't survive the season. . . I said earlier on in this thread that Bayern will wait till Xmas to wield the axe I'd say. . . which would be a terrible irony as that would make his last Bayern match at Eintracht on Dec 23rd.

    Mixed feelings about Kovac. . . He delivered a famous night last May for Eintracht with victory over Bayern but he did leave in a sneaky way. . . Lying to the club and fans about the fact that he had no intent of leaving.

    So, er, . . . I'll pass on your offer. :D
  4. Nov 24, 2018

    Synco Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,467
    Even when Dortmund gets neutralized or outplayed for much of the game, they still create high-calibre chances. Surely one of the best teams in Europe on the break already, after just a few months with the new coach.
  5. Nov 24, 2018

    do.ob Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5,824
    Location:
    Germany


    This didn't age well.
  6. Nov 24, 2018

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Messages:
    15,149
    Helps having such dynamic players like Reus and Sancho.
  7. Nov 24, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2014
    Messages:
    1,332
    Supports:
    Eintracht Frankfurt
    The last time Bayern won at home in the Bundesliga was on 15th September v Leverkusen.
    Next home match on 08 December. . .
  8. Nov 24, 2018

    hasanejaz88 Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1,366
    Supports:
    Germany
    The downturn started when I went to see them play against Augsburg. It's been all downhill from there :( I guess I should stay away from Dortmund matches :lol:
  9. Nov 24, 2018

    Synco Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,467
    Yes, the whole team they have is terrific for the counter/possession mix they play. A very good core that was merely underperforming last season, and excellent business in the summer.
  10. Nov 24, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2014
    Messages:
    1,332
    Supports:
    Eintracht Frankfurt
    Reverse happened for me with Eintracht.

    After I went to the home victory over Hannover on 30th Sept. . . .they can't stop winning. :D
  11. Nov 24, 2018

    Don Alfredo Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    Messages:
    1,574
    Supports:
    Germany
    If you want to earn some easy money, put it on Brazzo being made the scapegoat and getting the sack at some point in the near future, only for Jonas Boldt to take over. This is bound to happen.
  12. Nov 24, 2018

    do.ob Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5,824
    Location:
    Germany
    I could see Bayern hiring Boldt, but I don't think it will be as a direct BRAZZO replacement. He's kept himself in Völler's shadow all these years - there is no way that he will suddenly step out of it to become the face of Bayern.
    I think if anything they will split the job into two again, one guy as a squad planner (Boldt) and another one as a squad manager, who will be a charismatic guy and handle the direct contact will players and the media, maybe Kahn.
  13. Nov 24, 2018

    Don Alfredo Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    Messages:
    1,574
    Supports:
    Germany
    Ah yeah that is a good guess. There have been some rumours about Bayern hiring Kahn.

    Boldt / Kahn would remind me of Reschke / Sammer.
  14. Nov 25, 2018

    do.ob Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5,824
    Location:
    Germany
    When asked about Kovac's future Hoeneß responded that they have an important match against Benfica on tuesday where Kovac will be coach then and then they will evaluate. He also asked the press to analyze Düsseldorf's goals and pass stern judgement on the players.

    Bild claims that after the match "many" players spoke out against Kovac in the dressing room (Hoeneß and Rummenigge supposedly went straight there after final whistle). And they quote Goretzka of all players as refusing to comment when asked about whether the team still supports Kovac.

    Guess he will be sacked soon.
  15. Nov 25, 2018

    Sean_RedDevil Twitter bot

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    17,319
    Location:
    Manchester
    :lol::houllier::lol:
  16. Nov 25, 2018

    Casanova85 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2018
    Messages:
    839
    Location:
    Northwestern Mediterranean
    Supports:
    FC Barcelona, Manchester Utd
    Borussia D. are confident and solid.

    This bundesliga belongs to Dortmund unless a major, unjustified meltdown happens.

    By the way, last year it was Hamburg, this season is the turn of Stuttgart. Incredible that such big clubs can lose the plot completely.
  17. Nov 25, 2018

    Sphaero Struggling to explain his genius to the hoi polloi

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    4,343
    Location:
    Potsdam, Germany
    Supports:
    Borussia Dortmund
    And this here is the reason why there is no quick fix for the current situation in Munich. Kovac does not meet the standart that is set at Bayern and their transfer business in the last window was not ambitious enough, but the biggest problem is that the dressing room has grown far too powerful and too hostile for the vast majority of coaches. Who is supposed to coach this gigantic mass of pampered egos? This is the same dressing room who got rid of Ancelotti, who arrived with a huge vita of successes.

    This squad needs a major overhaul, not even primarily because of quality but moreso to bring in a better attitude.

    Bayern Munich has lost their fear factor and this is something that is not easily regained.
  18. Nov 25, 2018

    FootballHQ Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2017
    Messages:
    4,727
    Supports:
    Aston Villa
    Surprised with Stuttgart. They ended last season as one of the form teams and you'd think a spine of Pavard-Ascaribar-Mario Gomez would be more than good enough to get some wins.
  19. Nov 25, 2018

    Ekeke Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Messages:
    40,039
    Location:
    Hope, We Lose
    Last season Dodi Lukebakio made 1 sub appearance for Fulham in the championship.

    This season he scored a hatrick away from home against Bayern Munich at 21 years old and is almost a goal per 90 mins this season
  20. Nov 25, 2018

    Balu Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,023
    Location:
    Munich
    Supports:
    Bayern Munich
    Nonsense. The same story was told in 2010/11 when we were a mess under van Gaal and then in 2011/12 when all the players were called big game bottlers. A year later the same squad with only Martinez and Mandzukic added was destroying everything in their way and started a never before seen dominance in the league. The fear factor is easily regained for a big club once they start performing well again. We looked just as awful in Ancelotti's 2nd season before Heynckes took over and instantly were feared again under Heynckes. A few months of bad football, one season or even a few seasons mean absoluty nothing.

    The squad is old and in quality below the necessary standard for an elite club, no doubt about that. But the worst part of it all is the coaching. Experienced players aren't just big egos who want everything going their way. That's such a lame cliché. Maybe they simply recognize that the preparation for games is awful compared to what they've seen in the past and that they aren't young enough anymore to make up for shitty tactics through individual brilliance every game.
  21. Nov 25, 2018

    GhastlyHun Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Messages:
    7,242
    Location:
    Bavaria
    Supports:
    Bayern München
    Agree with all of this.
  22. Nov 25, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2014
    Messages:
    1,332
    Supports:
    Eintracht Frankfurt
    I remember a certain former Bayern manager, Giovanni Trappatoni, in an infamous interview stating:

    "These players complain more than they play"

    Some things never change.

    So I agree with most of this. . . Sure Kovac has limitations that have probably been exposed at Bayern. But the fact is that the players are unprofessional and are throwing him under a bus to get him the sack.
  23. Nov 25, 2018

    do.ob Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5,824
    Location:
    Germany
    I have no doubt that the right couple of signings/appointments can bring Bayern back to the top quickly.
    But I wouldn't take the "fear factor" for granted. Imho it was a product of Heynckes' and Guardiola's ultra dominant tactics and and the sheer individual quality of players like Robben, Ribery and Lewandowski (and of course several potential all-time club greats behind them).
    It's not something that Bayern can just replicate, they have to get lucky or gamble to sign even one player of that calibre and you can probably count the coaches (in Europe) who can implement that kind of football successfully on one hand.
    In the years before Robben Bayern were more than touchable and people were moaning about "Duselbayern" [as in having a lot of close matches they (supposedly) were fortunate to win].



    I find it hard to assess how much blame the players deserve. If a coach is out of his depth or simply is not a stylistic fit isn't it better to get rid of him quickly and for players to communicate that to the bosses? I also think people underestimate how important it is for players to have a overarching tactical philosophy that guides them in certain situations and ensures that everyone is on the same page, something which Kovac might be lacking on this level.
    People are very quick to tear into Bayern and praise Dortmund, but they were an even bigger mess than Bayern last season and lots of stuff was written about the same players who now may be running away with the title in November.
    That being said leaks are something else entirely of course and completely unacceptable..
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
  24. Nov 25, 2018

    Sean_RedDevil Twitter bot

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    17,319
    Location:
    Manchester
    True.....we will never forget what Moyes has done with the team in Munich before the game :lol:
  25. Nov 25, 2018

    Mrs Smoker Full Member Scouse Lover

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    21,658
    Location:
    In garden with Maurice
    Supports:
    Panthère du Ndé
    Hannover scores in 22nd second. :lol:
  26. Nov 26, 2018

    kaiser1 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2018
    Messages:
    93
    Supports:
    Bayern Munich
    I had a theory in the summer which sounded like I was trolling but it looks like its making sense now.

    My theory:

    "Last year Bayern wanted a top coach they were not convinced by Tuchel which I agree with(Tuchel could easily crash PSG out of the CL groups by Wednesday) or Naggelsman(30yr old) at that level yet. They wanted to wait for a big coach to come over and do a total rebuild, Their target(Klopp or Zidane) was in the middle of a project and not ready to leave. To give them 1 more year, Ulli tried everything to extend Jupp to patch up things until this target was available, Jupp declined. They had to get a fall guy, a dummy as a placeholder for this season while they try to pursue their top coaching targets. With no trophy expectation for this season as long as we make top 4.
    This target will be given a lot of money to retool the team and move into the future and give Bayern a new identity."


    While I believe Kovac is not a coach of Bayerns caliber, I think he was set up to fail. Before he was signed, Two 35yr old wingers were extended and no summer signing was made. Who signs a new coach, expects something of him and give him no signing at all nor give him an input in squad planning?

    Last summer Robben Ribery, Boateng, Hummels should have been weeded out by any serious team

    From recent interviews with Magath and also Ulli saying the next management will have a lot of money to spend, It looks like it might be true after all

    NB: If Klopp fail to win a trophy this season, do you think Liverpool will retain him?
  27. Nov 26, 2018

    Sphaero Struggling to explain his genius to the hoi polloi

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Messages:
    4,343
    Location:
    Potsdam, Germany
    Supports:
    Borussia Dortmund
    They would be fools to let him go. He is adored by the support and while he did spend a lot of money on the team, he also improved them a lot especially in terms of entertainment and style.

    Klopp and Pool have developed a similar relationship that he had with us, which also means that this relation will end like ours: on his own terms.

    Having said that, I just can´t picture him at Bayern, at least not as long as the current power structure is in place. Klopp is used by now to have quite a lot of influence based on trust. If he would be ok with a strong man restricting his influence, I see a more interesting job opening for him in the near future, somewhere with better weather and at a club with even more history than Munich´s.
  28. Nov 26, 2018

    Casanova85 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2018
    Messages:
    839
    Location:
    Northwestern Mediterranean
    Supports:
    FC Barcelona, Manchester Utd
    Real Madrid?
  29. Nov 26, 2018

    Zehner Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2018
    Messages:
    799
    Location:
    Germany
    Supports:
    Bayer 04 Leverkusen
    Yeah, everything to make Hoeneß look better than the old-fashioned, egocentric, ignorant and authoritarian person he is.

    With Tuchel Bayern would walk to the league title. He'd have been the logical successor to Pep. A much more fitting concept for a dominant side playing possession based football for almost a decade. But Hoeneß thought tactical concepts are overrated nonsense just like all this other modern crap like smartphones, social media, internet, criticism, freedom of speech and electric light. Well, guess the rest of the league has to be grateful for that attitude :)
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
  30. Nov 26, 2018

    kaiser1 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2018
    Messages:
    93
    Supports:
    Bayern Munich
    PSG can have him. Bayern does not need a coach who chokes in the biggest games.
    With Tuchel, PSG is probably going to crash out of the group stages of the CL by Wednesday after loading the team with mediocre players like Bernat and Chupo-Moting like he did with Dortmund stacking them with Castro, Toprak, Rode Schurrle
  31. Nov 26, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2014
    Messages:
    1,332
    Supports:
    Eintracht Frankfurt
    I can't see Klopp ever returning to the Bundesliga in the short term. He appears to be enjoying life at Liverpool, is clearly adored by their supporters, and one can only assume that he's not going to keep losing major finals, so silverware appears to be on the way.

    Tuchel will be on his way out of PSG (by summer at the latest) if they go out at the group stages of the Champions League this week. There's absolutely no way those Qatari owners are in the slightest bit interested in what he's doing in the French league. Tuchel will be rightly viewed as a failure at PSG, for this season anyway, if he doesn't deliver on Wednesday....and beyond. It would be thoroughly incredible if a team with a strike force of Cavani, Mbappe and Neymar fail to make the knockout stages of the CL.

    Interesting from kaiser1 that Kovac appears to be some sort of Hoeness/Rummenigge patsy. Certainly their refusal to allow the signing of Ante Rebic (who Kovac wanted to buy) lends itself to that argument. The situation is probably somewhere between that and the fact that Kovac was the last person on the list.....Like Moyes for United in 2013. People tend to forget that Kovac did very well at Eintracht up to the point that Bayern poached him. It hasn't worked out for him at Bayern, but that is not to say he won't appear at some other Bundesliga club.
  32. Nov 26, 2018

    Zehner Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2018
    Messages:
    799
    Location:
    Germany
    Supports:
    Bayer 04 Leverkusen
    Hope your leaders keep thinking the same way.
  33. Nov 26, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2014
    Messages:
    1,332
    Supports:
    Eintracht Frankfurt
  34. Nov 26, 2018

    do.ob Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5,824
    Location:
    Germany

    How does the signing and role of BRAZZO fit with that theory? Or the fact that Klopp has a contract until 2022 and Zidane had not even resigned by the time Bayern gave Kovac a three year contract?
    Why is this conspiracy theory more likely than Bayern overestimating their squad's strength after cruising to their 6th league title in a row and almost beating Real in the CL, coupled with Hoeneß being out of touch with modern times after his return from jail. It's a much simpler way of explaining everything that's happening, even Salihamidzic, their cringy public statements and the supposed interest in Kahn.
  35. Nov 27, 2018

    kaiser1 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2018
    Messages:
    93
    Supports:
    Bayern Munich
    The Sporting director role basically a rubber stamp to Ulli/Kalle like Nerlinger etc. A Bayern Sporting director has no power outside what Kalle/Ulli want.

    Coaches are taken in the middle of their contract everytime if they have a better project to run. Klopp is the best German coach and Ulli will always have a preference for that.
    You seriously don't think Kovac will be seen as anything more than a short term solution by anyone. Bayern was due for a rebuild and who will trust Kovac with 200M to rebuild anything?
    How do you appoint a coach and give him zero signings or input into squad planning

    Ulli recently stated that he was leaving a full purse to the next one to rebuild, basically they have no plan for the current just the "future"
  36. Nov 27, 2018

    do.ob Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5,824
    Location:
    Germany
    Neither do I see a lot of top clubs letting their coaches go mid contract, nor is Bayern necessarily a step up from Liverpool at the moment, especially not in Klopp's particular case.

    Bayern have initiated their rebuild long ago with signings like Coman, Kimmich, Süle, Tolisso, Goretzka, Davies, Sanches, James and to a lesser degree Gnabry. It's not like that's some top secret project for the future, it just hasn't worked out as well as they would have hoped. I also doubt that they thought anyone other than Ribery, Robben and Boateng (who they tried to replace, but couldn't sell) was in need of immediate replacement during last summer.
    It's only natural to get complacent after six titles in a row. What's not natural or logical is sacrificing an entire season for some hope down the road.

    Hoeneß mentioned that stuff about leaving a full purse when talking about his own successor in two or three years time (which by itself is not a plan either), not about next season's coach.

    Maybe the combination of Kovac being inexperienced and the club being very successfull with what they already got made them reluctant to invest big during the summer. But that's just a series of wrong decisions rather than some deep thinking.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  37. Nov 27, 2018

    Lagger Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    852
    Supports:
    FC Bayern
    @do.ob Do you remember a few weeks back when I talked to you about the way Bundesliga clubs can beat Bayern if they change their mentality and don't give up before they come out of the cabin? You're seeing the effect now, Bayern is vulnerable, everyone sees it and suddenly even second tier teams take away points from them and they get flustered into being a bad team.

    I'm convinced that the combination of Brazzo and Kovac has something to do with it, too, but this is exactly the situation I was describing.
  38. Nov 27, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2014
    Messages:
    1,332
    Supports:
    Eintracht Frankfurt
    There's something in this alright.

    Bayern's game against Ajax in the Champions League appears to have been the turning point. Ajax completely dominated Bayern in the Allianz and appeared to be creating chances at will. . . Up to that point in the season Bayern were cruising and no one was questioning Kovac.

    I wonder how many Bundesliga managers were looking at that thinking - "Hang on here. . .This is Ajax, not Barcelona".
  39. Nov 27, 2018

    do.ob Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2010
    Messages:
    5,824
    Location:
    Germany
    There is a big difference between demanding points and hoping for points.
    I have little doubt that Düsseldorf did not expect to get any points in Munich and would've been "happy" with a 2:3.