Bundesliga 2018/19

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by uamini, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. Dec 5, 2018

    Ray_of_Hope New Member

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    Actually Southampton was one of the best managed club in England up until last year or so, when they decided to give Mark Hughes the job. They still have one of the best academies in England. If only they could properly spend all the money that Liverpool gave them.
    Maybe they will use part of it to pay Hasenhüttl when Southampton gets relegated at the end of this season. A manager can do only so much if his players are not up to scratch.
  2. Dec 5, 2018

    Blackwidow Full Member

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    I watch Gnabry since Arsenal - and he there was not just a speed player but was good in combinations with others, too. He might have not needed that at Werder. And it is the same now for Bayern. In the matches on the right wing his play gets now more dimensional as he sees that with less space you need the team much more for the goals and it is not just individual play. And he really takes the advantage now he has with Müller and Lewy centrally.

    With Gnabry speed is an aspect of his game - with Werner speed is the main aspect. When he cannot use this speed he is not a top player anymore. The main attribute of Robben in the recent season was that he offered other things to his dribblings and "move" - same with Ribery who was at times Bayern's best playmaker.
  3. Dec 8, 2018

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    Ruhr derby starting now. Hopefully Dortmund gets their first win over S04 in a while.
  4. Dec 8, 2018

    NieThePiet New Member

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    Delaney already scored for Dortmund.
  5. Dec 8, 2018

    PedroMendez Acolyte

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    If thats not a hand-ball, I don't know what is.
  6. Dec 8, 2018

    Guoan New Member

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    VAR gives Schalke a penalty and goal. Ridiculous decision.
  7. Dec 8, 2018

    arthurka Full Member

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    Ok VAR ..... How was this a penalty?
    This ref is not ready for this match.
  8. Dec 8, 2018

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    That was absolutely incredible, how the hell can a ref call that penalty in a game like this while looking at several replays?

    He should never referee a game in the top division again, there are no excuses with VAR.
  9. Dec 8, 2018

    arthurka Full Member

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    Shocking call from a terrible ref.
  10. Dec 8, 2018

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    Fantastic by Sancho and Guerreiro. 2-1, huge goal
  11. Dec 8, 2018

    hasanejaz88 Full Member

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    Sanchoooo 2-1. Great buildup from him aswell to beat two men then play the onetwo
  12. Dec 8, 2018

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    Complete domination now, should be 3-1. It doesn't even seem like a derby, Schalke have been terrible
  13. Dec 8, 2018

    Foxtrot New Member

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    Dortmund keep finding a way to win this season. Still unbeaten after 14 games. Can't see past them for the title. Happy for them. Finally someone break Bayern Munich's stranglehold.
  14. Dec 8, 2018

    hasanejaz88 Full Member

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    Horrible team. Needed a goal and didn't even play a striker upfront. Mckeinne, a DM was part of the front three.

    Dortmund never looked like conceding in the second half apart from the penalty, which I thought was one because Reus stepped on Hart's foot.
  15. Dec 9, 2018

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    So that's 2 losses in a row for Frankfurt and down to 5th position.
  16. Dec 9, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

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    I was at the match.

    Very disappointing result but I cannot help but feel if the job Labbadia did on Eintracht last week was still lingering in the background as Frankfurt were truly awful in the first half.

    Things got better in the second half.
    48% first half possession was turned into 72% possession but creativity was lacking as service from the midfielders was poor.

    Nevertheless with moments left in the match Luka Jovic was clearly dragged back for a penalty and a possible draw. I was absolutely shocked that no penalty was given. Still there's VAR to remedy justice? Nope.....As the VAR referee in Cologne, Bibi Steinhaus, didn't advise the inexperienced referee to take a look.

    You just laugh.
    The match officials are of such astonishing poor quality in the Bundesliga that it just has to be accepted.....
    Then I switch on the TV to see the penalty that Schalke were awarded.

    On German football certain penalties aren't awarded and penalties are awarded where no offense has occurred.
  17. Dec 9, 2018

    Ray_of_Hope New Member

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    How well did Marko Grujic actually play? His manager's praise seemed too OTT.
  18. Dec 9, 2018

    NieThePiet New Member

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    Neuhaus will be the next german nationalplayer, only a question of time.
  19. Dec 9, 2018

    GhastlyHun Full Member

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    Horrible match day for VAR again. Some ridiculous decisions in both sunday games, no corrections.
  20. Dec 9, 2018

    Inigo New Member

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    Hertha fan here. He's probably been the team's best player this season. We haven't lost a match with him on the pitch and even during the few matches he played you can tell he is still improving.

    That said he still has major screw ups in him. In 6 matches (not counting the Nürnberg one where he only played 2 mins) he caused one pen against Schalke which they luckily missed, cost the team against Hoffenheim where a horrible pass led directly to the 0:1 and yesterday he should have caused another penalty but the ref somehow missed it. 3 fatal errors in 6 matches is bad.

    If the can turn that off and other than that keep his current level he'll easily be the best midfielder (or even player in general) in the league not playing at Bayern or Dortmund.
  21. Dec 10, 2018

    Ray_of_Hope New Member

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    He learnt it from Lovren and Moreno. It will take a while to go away. It's a Liverpool thing.

    On a serious note, thank you for updating us about his progress. He has all the attributes to be a top midfielder. Played with Milinkovic-Savic and was rated better in youth level than Savic. He is a Buvac signing though. With Buvac gone now if Klopp does not have a first team role for Marko, I would prefer him to stay at Hertha and probably make the move permanent.

    Strangely, promising Balkan players have somehow found it extremely difficult to make it a t Liverpool. Lazar Markovic is another example. Talented 20 year old signed from Benfica, and now he is playing for the U-23s.
  22. Dec 10, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

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    I still haven't seen a clip of the foul on Luka Jovic by Marko Grujic for the penalty that was not given in the Berlin match v Eintracht Frankfurt.

    The referee did not give a penalty and Bibiana Steinhaus, the VAR match official in Cologne, remained silent.
    Yet apparently former German referee Markus Merk described it as "1000% a penalty and 100% a wrong decision".

    If this is the case then why did Steinhaus remain silent?

    Did she remain silent because she wanted Hertha to win the match?
    Or did she advise the referee to go to VAR and who then ignored her?

    Should Grujic have been sent off?

    I was really delighted when VAR was introduced into the Bundesliga as I have long suspected some referees to be cheats.
    VAR, I believed, would cut out their cheating as a VAR referee cannot visibly stand over a decision so blatantly wrong given many opportunities to review an incident.

    I was at the match and so shocked and stunned that a penalty wasn't given that I felt VAR would now be used......But Steinhaus either did or didn't advise it to the referee.
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  23. Dec 11, 2018

    Acrobat7 Full Member

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    Steinhaus clearly wanted Hertha to win. It’s a big conspiracy against the powerhouse Frankfurt. They are all in on it!!11!
  24. Dec 11, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

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    Steinhaus saw the replay.
    Either she intervened to inform the referee and got ignored, or she didn't intervene at all.

    Your pretty bad attempt at sarcasm does not take from the fact that VAR failed at what was a scenario that never required VAR in the first place as it was so blatant a penalty.

    It has caused controversy in Germany and, yet again, raises the question of biased match officials.

    Makoto Hasebe sarcastically enquired if Steinhaus (the Female world referee of the year) was asleep. . . . Maybe she wasn't asleep. Maybe she's either corrupt or incompetent?
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  25. Dec 11, 2018

    do.ob Full Member

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    There's an "interview" with Jochen Drees, Bundesliga ref and VAR, who talks about last weekend's incidents in particular.

    -He praises the penalty for Schalke as a correct call (something which I still strongly disagree with, as I don't think it crossed the "clearness" threshold for VAR intervention, but I guess that's why I'm not a referee).

    -When asked about wrong or wrongfully missed VAR interventions he names two scenes in the Mainz vs Hannover match: 1) Wimmer heading the ball onto his own arm (apparently it didn't merit review, but the ref confirmed his initial ruling anyway) and 2) the penalty that was eventually (and wrongfully) awarded, where he claims communication issues that prevented the ref from being told to watch a replay.
    Also a handball penalty in Bremen vs Augsburg, however there he says that the perception of the ref was so strong that the threshold for VAR intervention was very high and inaction was understandable.

    -When asked about Berlin vs Frankfurt he says that the ref Daniel Schlager had a clear view on the incident and diagnosed both players pulling at each other, so he decided to let play go on after Jovic went down.
    VAR Steinhaus apparently reviewed the footage but because she couldn't find a high enough discrepancy between Schlager's perception of the incident to rule it a clear enough mistake to cross the VAR threshold, even though replays showed good arguments for a penalty.

    -He also stresses how important the ref's perception of an incident is, meaning if the referee clearly missed it VAR has a low threshold and the more and clearer he saw the incident the higher the threshold gets.

    https://www.dfb.de/news/detail/drees-ein-ueberraschend-unterschiedliches-leistungsbild-196749/

    @RW2
  26. Dec 11, 2018

    Swarm New Member

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    Actually really don't think the scene in the Hertha-Frankfurt game was that clear cut of a pen. Sure, a lot of times that one is given but I feel like in open play it did not really look like a stonewall pen, maybe the slowmo alters the perception a bit here. At least it is in my opinion altogether unnecessary to take your tinfoil hats out and look for a conspiracy here. I am pretty sure no one is trying to systematically hold Frankfurt back.

    I actually found the scene in Mainz a lot more appalling and it shows the problem with the VAR quite clearly. And what @do.ob writes just restates that: The threshold for a VAR intervention appears kind of arbitrary. What he says about situational intervention thresholds is very worrysome to me because that is pretty much the death of all transparency and consistency. If that is the actual policy of decision making I can understand why there is so much grief und why decisions can be so hard to understand at times. I feel like IF the VAR intervenes it has to be clear-cut and should not take into account the on-field refs opinion. I mean that is the entire point of it isn't it? And if said on-field ref is not happy with that intervention he can check it again on the screen. Shouldn't be that hard honestly.
  27. Dec 11, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

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    This has all the hallmarks of Schlager and Steinhaus concocting a story between them to get them both off the hook.

    It was truly one of the most remarkable incidents I've seen in a stadium. Now, as a supporter, I do try and remain objective as possible despite feeling "How is that not a penalty?". I left the stadium accepting that the referee obviously had a better view and that surely VAR would intervene if I were wrong. The Hertha fans just fell absolutely silent. Everyone knew it was a penalty.

    Despite comments from Markus Merk I'm willing to cut the referee some slack here. He's young, highly inexperienced (only his fourth Bundesliga match) and is going to make mistakes. However I don't think the same can be said for Steinhaus. Hers was a decision to be made based on several replays over, say, 15-20 seconds. I don't know how Merk can state that this is "1000% a penalty" and for her not to even mention to the referee that he might want to take another look. if the referee then goes to VAR and makes a decision then at least all check and balances have been applied and the game can continue.

    Hertha are 6th in the Bundesliga when they should probably be 8th and this affects other clubs also.

    It is also worth pointing out that Drees is talking of bringing in ex-professionals to assist and help referees.
    This is a good thing but it also a sign from Drees that maybe the referees in the Bundesliga have a credibility problem.
  28. Dec 11, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

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    Referees are human. They have hidden biases and may even support some clubs. Some referees are not allowed to take charge of matches involving certain clubs (usually from their home town). This is normal. We don't have robots officiating . . yet.

    However they also have negative biases towards clubs also. Biases, which, they may not even possibly be aware of.
    This is never taken into account. It is not a question of conspiracy theory but just human nature.

    I'm sure most supporters have a referee which they dread. Maybe not from Dortmund or Bayern as they predominantly dominate matches but other clubs this is not the case.

    For me personally I rarely watch an Eintracht match with Felix Brych in charge.
  29. Dec 11, 2018

    Swarm New Member

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    I still think you are reading a bit much into this. As far as I know the VAR is not alone in his or her room so I think it should still be pretty hard to disadvantage a club that you are "biased against". Maybe it does not feel like it to you but to allege that a ref is biased or purposely disadvantaging a certain club is a quite strong accusation. I think if this was in the least suspected of a ref there would be investigations. I have honestly never felt like any ref was doing this and I think if you have no proper proof (you don't in my opinion) I would not voice these thoughts.

    The only ref I can recall that I really did not want to officiate any Dortmund games anymore was Wolfgang Stark. This was down to him being pretty shit and having some unbelievably terrible decisions (Schmelzers clearance on the line comes to mind, resulted in a red and penalty to Wolfsburg even though his hand was nowhere near the ball) and I think he was at least for a while not assigned any Dortmund games after that. But while I could not stand the guy, his refereeing mistakes combined with his body language, I would never accuse him of doing that on purpose.
  30. Dec 11, 2018

    RW2 Full Member

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    In all honesty I did think of Wolfgang Stark and THAT Schmelzer incident in the post you responded to. Personally I always felt Stark was one of the good referees.

    Of course you're right. To accuse a referee of bias is a very serious accusation and one which is next to impossible to prove. But let us bear in mind that the Bundesliga is the only major league in Europe where a referee was relatively recently jailed for match fixing and it was his colleagues, to their credit, who shipped him in.

    I don't watch matches with Brych because every time I do the opposition always seem to either get a penalty or an Eintracht player gets sent off. . . Or even both. Funnily enough when VAR first came out last season Eintracht were at home to Stuttgart with Brych in charge. Halfway through second half Brych sent off Eintracht's Simon Falette & issued a penalty only for VAR to overrule him and advise a free kick instead. . . . In them early days the pitch referee had no say on VAR. . . he just took the decision from Cologne.

    On the match in Berlin there are many Eintracht fans linking Kevin Trapp's comments about last week's match referee against Wolfsburg with a possible reason for this week's decision going against Eintracht from not one but two match officials. . . . Perhaps Bundesliga referees are a close knit family (I suspect they are) and an attack on one is an attack on all. . . . "you won't attack us without consequences".
  31. Dec 11, 2018

    Swarm New Member

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    He might be, I never really checked that, I feel like for a fan it is hard to properly judge refs a lot of times. At least I feel I am very biased myself a lot of the time. For Stark it was probably the mixture of him having some shocking calls against Dortmund and his demeanor that oftentimes comes across as a bit arrogant. I just really don't like the guy - as a ref that is.

    To me that is rather a testament that there is actually some kind of review process going on in Germany. Even if it is only the refs watching each other with critical eyes. If no such behaviour has been reported in other countries I think that just means it did not come out as opposed to the refs being better or less corrupt there. Mind you I am saying that there are probably refs rigging games for monetary gain in every country, not that anyone has a bias of some sort.

    Still feel like this is a bit much of a conspiracy theory but I guess you can see it that way if you want to.
  32. Dec 15, 2018 at 14:33

    GhastlyHun Full Member

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    And Bayern score in the 2nd minute after a throw in by Alaba to Müller, into the box, ball comes from Hannover defender Felipe to Kimmich, goal.
  33. Dec 15, 2018 at 15:53

    hasanejaz88 Full Member

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    Bayern seem to be entering a good run of form. Winning 4-0. Kimmich with a goal and assist, awesome player.
  34. Dec 15, 2018 at 15:56

    arthurka Full Member

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    BVB playing Bremen later today hopeful it will be a good game
  35. Dec 15, 2018 at 16:04

    RW2 Full Member

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    I spoke too soon.

    Brych is doing Eintracht-Bayer L tomorrow.

    Advantage Bayer Leverkusen. . . . Kevin Trapp better start studying their penalty taker & Adi Hutter better start thinking about playing with ten men.

    Over the past 12 matches that Brych has presided over (with Frankfurt playing). . . Eintracht have only won once, and that was a freak result from a Haller stoppage time bicycle kick against Stuttgart. Naturally, of course, Frankfurt were down to ten men at the time and Brych awarded a penalty to Stuttgart. . . Sadly for him the penalty was rescinded by VAR.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2018 at 16:29
  36. Dec 15, 2018 at 17:45

    AltiUn likes playing with swords after fantasies

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    I really like the look of Alcacer, he's a very classy forward. Akanji is excellent, he'd be a great option to look at if we can't get Koulibaly or Skriniar.
  37. Dec 15, 2018 at 18:04

    Sphaero Struggling to explain his genius to the hoi polloi

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    What makes you think that Akanji would be in any way or form easier to sign than the other two? He is our most important defender and already became 3rd captain despite only being at the club since January. You don´t look at him as some kind of back up option. You make him your prime target and throw so much money at us for the very slim chance that Akanji might force a deal so that our officials had to consider any kind of deal. We would fight tooth and nail or him and likely make him the most expensive defender in history.
  38. Dec 15, 2018 at 18:07

    AltiUn likes playing with swords after fantasies

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    I didn't mean to sound disrespectful, I just meant that we've been heavily linked with those two but not Akanji, it was nothing to do with him being easier to sign or anything like that.
  39. Dec 15, 2018 at 18:15

    Sphaero Struggling to explain his genius to the hoi polloi

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    No worries, I did not take any offense here. Akanji might be the only key player of ours where a transfer would be unlikely but possible (the others are either too old, too loyal or have no reason to leave next Summer), but the reason for the missing links to him is probably that we shut down any kind of interest right at the start.
  40. Dec 15, 2018 at 18:17

    RedMist99 Full Member

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    This Dortmund side are great to watch