Centre Back... Who do we go for?

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by Macern, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. Jan 11, 2019

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt

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    De Ligt and Koulibaly would cost about €180m. I'd agree if we didn't need to sign another fullback, a CM and another attacker.
    Alderweireld being available makes it easy to sign two CBs.
  2. Jan 11, 2019

    beingshe7don Full Member

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    I think a swap deal with Bailly + cash for Koulibaly could tempt Napoli. De Ligt will be worth 180m on his own in 4 years or so. I think it makes sense to get bothe of them right now. As for fullback, I think we can wait although I feel Valencia's career is finished at OT. It's hard to judge Alderweireld.... I guess this weekend's game will be able to judge him better. However I do feel that having a young quality CB and experienced one should be the way to go. Koulibaly needs to come here at all costs to bring some belief and organization in defense.
  3. Jan 11, 2019

    Sparky Rhiwabon Full Member

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    Not hugely different. The Premier League is much bigger than those two leagues for a start. Ajax have also been a selling club, no problem there. And Napoli are “second tier”.
  4. Jan 11, 2019

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    Rubbish :lol:

    Napoli are giant compared to Feeder club Southampton.

    I don't see Southampton buying Ajax's best players either. Didn't Ajax recently acquire Southamptons best in Tadic?
  5. Jan 11, 2019

    Sparky Rhiwabon Full Member

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    Giants? Southampton had a bigger revenue than Napoli last year according to Deloitte (and much bigger than Ajax)!

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League
  6. Jan 11, 2019

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    I'm talking history here. Nobody would choose to play for Southampton i'm sure of that.

    Napoli also have a very rich owner who doesn't need to sell.
  7. Jan 12, 2019

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    A right winger and a center back with nothing else would still make the summer window a great one, provided they are the right signings. Skriniar/de ligt/koulibaly/alderweireld or whoever along those lines, we need to stop trying to be clever and just go all out and bring in the best we can to be the leader at the back. Another fullback, midfielder and whatever else can be more longer term goals, but it's just minor distractions compared to how much fixing those 2 positions would transform us IMO.
  8. Jan 12, 2019

    Kostov Full Member

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    Southampton is a much easier club to buy from, compared to Napoli. Napoli is also the second best team in Italy, and regularly play CL, Southampton is nowhere near that.
  9. Jan 12, 2019

    Devil may care Full Member

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    I'd rather we stuck with Lingard and upgraded at DM or RB than buy a RWF to be honest, I think part of the reason our right side is so dead is we lack attacking quality from fullback over there, and while Matic might be making a few more forward passes nowadays he still doesn't control the game and his lack of mobility means teams get at our back 4 way too easily.
  10. Jan 12, 2019

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    Lingard as a right wing is so far from being adequate though. We have people who can fill in from right back, but they shouldnt be expected to carry the entire flank as they have been. Plus, Dalot is young. Right wing is in dire need of being improved and if we sort that out and center back out, we can make do with rotating Dalot and Young at right back and Shaw at left back.

    Agree Matic needs replacing, but again, not an awful situation. The centerback and the wing would help our midfield as well. And we could pick between Pogba, Herrera, matic, fred (with the hopes he adapts better next season), Pereira, use mata/lingard as part of the midfield 3, and so on. Herrera can play in Matic's play and we can rotate them if needed. It's not ideal, but it's still a good midfield.

    It's been the main 2 problem positions for over a year, but the right wing and center back are really imperative and glaring weaknesses. The fullbacks are classic cases of us having potential there but hard to really evaluate it properly because of the gaps close to them. No right wing makes the right backs job so much harder, especially when it's a youngster. No commanding centerback means theres nobody to lead the defence and organize everyone. A center back and right wing would essentially fix the fullback positions on their own, and would give Dalot a much better platform to perform.

    If it costs 200m to fix those 2 positions, so be it. We can make do and hope others improve everywhere else. But those 2 positions need reinforcements and arent at a spot where we can hope people improve.
  11. Jan 12, 2019

    Murder on Zidane's Floor You'd better not kill Giroud

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    Saw this thread on twitter.

    Especially these graphs;



    And



    Interesting to see how close Lindelof is to Ramos.

    Good metrics to understand.
  12. Jan 12, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    Not suprised to see VVD being the best, but very suprised by the margin. Based on those metrics regarding duels i reckon he is better than Chiellini at his best. Lindelof doing well, and the similarities with Ramos makes sense. Would be interesting to see the same metrics for CL with De Ligt as the dutch league has some teams that might struggle in the Championship.

    Should also remember that winning duels is not everything a defender should do. Rio used his brain a lot more than Vidic did and he was arguably the better defender. Still Vidic would have been performed far better than Rio if those metrics was the only ones that mattered.
  13. Jan 12, 2019

    Ekeke Full Member

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    I mean Ramos hasnt been very good this season and its not his defending thats ever been good about him. He plays some nice long balls out to the wing and scores goals. So is it interesting to see how close Lindelof is to Ramos when looking at areas where Ramos isnt good?
  14. Jan 12, 2019

    Ekeke Full Member

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    It doesnt take into account situations where a CB should challenge but doesnt. For example last week I saw an opponent get a headed chance against Liverpool with VVD not jumping for it. He didnt attempt to win the ball so it wont count.

    In fact if the header had gone in it wouldnt have affected this image either. So yeah keep in mind that its only about when the CBs have tried to challenge for something.
  15. Jan 12, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    More to defending than duels, but winning duels is something Ramos has always been good at. What he struggles with as a defender is his positioning and other "mental" elements of the game.
  16. Jan 12, 2019

    deafepl Full Member

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    I'd like to see stats about CB on balls as a playmaker who can attack so well, I think it is one of Lindelof's strongest abilities, could've had 3 goals/assist under Ole, he's more like a sweeper CB rather than typical CB, similar to how Ederson is not tradition goalkeepers
  17. Jan 12, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    I think i saw that situation, and thought the same as you then.

    The graphs are not that difficult to understand, but they should have added a Z-axis with % of correct decision making. But creating an objective standard for the metric "the correct decision made" in each situation is a difficult/complex/impossible task as people would perceive each situation different. Also there are not many good softwares out there for creating 3D graphs and the one in excel is limited.

    BTW are you implying that VVD is stat padding?
  18. Jan 12, 2019

    In Rainbows Full Member

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    DM could turn out to be an awful situation with Matic's age. He's been known to start off well and then fade, and this season has proven it. Ole has made us forget this fact, but it's not a foregone conclusion that he's all of a sudden going to be great.

    I know it's farfetched as we haven't been linked, but United should go after De Ligt and De Jong. PSG are linked to them so it's not like Barca transfers are sure things.

    Right wing is an easier position to fill. I feel like we can be patient in that area.
  19. Jan 12, 2019

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    Really disagree. It's been a massive problem for ages. We have good midfielders at the club and good enough to fill in. Nobody is assuming he will be great, he doesn't have to though. An improved defence through the center back would take off some of the pressure, while also we can rotate between Herrera and Matic for the DM, we should expect Fred improves with time, while Pogba is the must start.

    In an ideal world, of course, we would sign a CB, RW, DM, RB, LB all in one window. Not realistic though. The 2 biggest needs by far are the CB and right wing. Like it's not even close. We sort out the right wing and CB and that gives us far more goals, consistency in attack while also fixing our defence. A midfield of Pogba + 2 of Herrera/Matic/Fred/Pereira/lingard/Mata is perfectly fine for another year if we can only get 2 players in the summer. A midfielder isn't even third on the list of priorities. I'd say a right back would go after a CB and winger, but none of those are anywhere close to the need of fixing the RW and CB.

    Look at Liverpool. They sorted out their defence with van Dijk and have a world class attack but use a midfield of hendersen, wijnaldum, milner, etc. Look at United for ages under Sir Alex. He always ensured he had a world class center back to be the leader at the back, and quality attacking players to always create and score against anyone. He made do with the likes of Anderson and Cleverley. Our midfield options right now are far better than they were under Sir Alex's time here for pretty much his last 5 years in charge. Where we lack is the CB's and the attack not being refined top quality.
  20. Jan 12, 2019

    In Rainbows Full Member

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    I just disagree. There will always be RWs available. Players breaking through are more often doing it in attacking positions. They usually start out on the wing. Now that doesn't mean we can't go for one in the summer. I'm just saying that if there is a DM available, he needs to be bought. A DM that can pass well is a lot trickier to find.

    Easiest example is Sancho. We know he's going to be available in 2020. There is Lozano at PSV that could be had this summer. Apart from De Jong, which DM has an arsenal of ability like him? Someone who can dribble, break the lines, has vision, etc....? You'll struggle to find that. Going back to Weigl, before he regressed, had the passing ability and vision, but I don't remember him having the ability to dribble and having as good of an ability to create space for himself. That's pretty rare.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  21. Jan 12, 2019

    Leftback99 Full Member

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    Lindelof and Smalling come out well on that.
  22. Jan 12, 2019

    Rozay Master of Hindsight

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    Perhaps we can teach Andy Carroll how to play centre half. Turn him into our VVD. 6”5, best header in the PL, and can play on the left side. He’s missed his calling!
  23. Jan 12, 2019

    Devil may care Full Member

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    I don't disagree on the CB issue, we certainly need one, I actually think there's a case for needing two, but I don't think sliding Herrera into a DM role or making do with Young and Dalot at RB is any different to Lingard in the RWF position, all are compromises that will make us less than we can be, I just feel Lingard offers more in his "do a job" role than the others do, and I do think Dalot has a future but he needs time, time we can give him but not by playing Young as RB most of the time.

    I also look at the options in the positions, I think there are good options we can get for midfield and right back, but on the right wing I'm not so convinced, not if we want absolute quality. Another factor is Sanchez, if he can get firing he can challenge Lingard for the right spot in attack as well.
  24. Jan 13, 2019

    Andersons Dietician Full Member

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    Looking at that and thinking wow Smalling and Lindelof lookvery good, then spot the red circle in the top corner and think what is that, kinda shows the influence Van Dijk is having on pool. That’s crazy that he is so far in front.

    Koulibaly wishes he was as good as Lindelof and Smalling going by that, stats :lol:
  25. Jan 13, 2019

    Devil81 Full Member

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    Surprised Nathan Ake doesnt get more of a mention, he seems to have come of age this season and is fantastic in the air and on the floor.

    He also plays for a club that couldn't stand in the way of a move to a club of our size.
  26. Jan 13, 2019

    JohnnyLaw Full Member

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    Watched a video of Mario Hermoso and thought he looked fantastic, especially on the ball. He’s a bit on the small side though only 1,84 m.

    Any La liga followers on here who can provide a perspective on him?
  27. Jan 13, 2019

    LuckyScout78 New Member

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    Im following Kurt Zouma. First time i saw him with Pogba playing for France for World cup U17. Back that time he had everything and that was why Mourinho and Chelsea bought him. The boy had everything. Pace, winning mentality and really good ball control. Later he was unlucky with injury. If he hit the level he had when he was 19-21. When he, PObga and that France youth team won everything they come over. Then i will put him on the same level as Koulibaly. So let we see how well Zouma will do with Everton.

    A really solid CB at the age of 24. I would consider him.
  28. Jan 13, 2019

    damageinc. New Member

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    Spalletti: "Nobody has the money to buy Skriniar becouse he will stay. He's out of price for anyone."
  29. Jan 13, 2019

    izec Full Member

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    Lindelöf, Koulibaly, Smalling, Milenkovic plus Tuanzebe.

    Sell Jones, Rojo and Bailly, I have seen enough.
  30. Jan 13, 2019

    settembrini Full Member

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    I would like him too. PL proven, quick, good on the ball and naturally left sided which is important due to Smalling, Lindelof and Bailly all preferring to play on the right. He also counts as home grown due to joining Chelsea at 16.

    He's not the biggest but his leap is fantastic and he competes surprisingly well against bigger players. One of the most underrated CBs in the league last season and will be moving to a bigger club soon I reckon.
  31. Jan 13, 2019

    OverratedOpinion Full Member

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    That is just begging for a "Hold my beer." moment from Woodward.
  32. Jan 13, 2019

    Woziak Full Member

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    This is a great shout we need a left sided CB who can play all across the back line as an upgrade to Rojo who needs to go with Jones, Valencia and Darmian but we also still need a truly world class Centre Back like Varane or Koulibaly as well and a proper right back like Shamus Coleman 3 in 4 out and promote Axel to the first team squad next season!
  33. Jan 13, 2019

    Nate Dogg Don't Make Me Angry

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    I thought he was Dutch.
  34. Jan 13, 2019

    settembrini Full Member

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    He is. I meant home grown instead of English and edited my post.
  35. Jan 13, 2019

    Nate Dogg Don't Make Me Angry

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    Okay I just recall him playing for Holland but previously I wondered why Southgate hadn't picked him.
  36. Jan 13, 2019

    Mick321 Full Member

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    Cheers for posting. Really interesting that. Van Dijk is a freak, the cnut. Not surprised Koulibaly doesn't come out that great, he's nowhere near as good as the hype on here in our desperation for another CB. Would be good to see Vic and Smalling get a run together in the coming months.
  37. Jan 13, 2019

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    It just shows he is not the physically dominant CB some think he is. He is more of a Hummels type.
  38. Jan 14, 2019

    Macern Pee pee pants

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    I can’t help but feel Koulibaly wouldn’t be the perfect fit for us. Yes, he’s perhaps the best center back available, but does he check the most critical boxes? I don’t think so.

    First and foremost we need a leader. If we had someone there today to command the surrounding players, talk to them and maybe tell them to bring the ball down and keep it around for a bit, we would probably not have faced the endless waves Spurs produced. We fell way too deep and I think it’s partly due to the lack of leadership at the back and partly because the players don’t seem to trust the defence and therefore tends to fall back too far.

    Imagine Maguire. He captained Hull at a very young age and seems to be the type of leader that would organize the defence. Smalling doesn’t, Jones doesn’t (he just makes it more chaotic), Bailly doesn’t, Lindelöf doesn’t, De Gea doesn’t, none of the full backs does and none of our deep midfielders do either.

    Add to that the aerial abiliy he has. Spurs created so many chances through crosses and it’s because Kane will beat Jones and Lindelöf in the air most of the time. He’s stronger, taller and reaches higher. Alli too, when they two get in the box, the ball is out wide and are up against Jones and Lindelöf it’s always going to be dangerous. Maguire is massive, he would help out a lot in that regard.

    Lastly, playing out from the back when being pressed is essential if you’d want to dominate games against top opposition, especially away and especially when being a goal or two up. Lindelöf is good at it, none of our other center backs are. Maguire is excellent in this aspect.

    I believe that with someone like Maguire there today instead of Jones we’d see a completely different second half. The team would’ve dared to press higher, we’d have retained possession to a larger extent and maybe even controlled the game.

    Koulibaly is from what I’ve seen good in the air, but not the level of Maguire. He’s only as tall as Harry Kane. He’s not the calming influence either I believe, and I don’t think he speaks english. He’s a great player, but I don’t think he’s the perfect fit for us and wouldn’t have a Van Dijk-esque impact. I think Maguire would have and we all must hope that by now it’s evident to Solskjær and Woodward that the center back position needs to be sorted out.
  39. Jan 14, 2019

    sam147 Full Member

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    Are you serious? Firstly captaining Hull City doesn't make you a leader fit enough for manchester united. And would we really have controlled the game and pressed higher if we have a 6'4 oaf who has zero agility and acceleration? Or would we have sat back. Maguire is a B-rate CB who would fit in well in a deep block team. Not a team looking to push high. He is good on the ball yes but and good in the air. Are these the critical boxes you are on about? Koulibaly is better on the ball, better recovery pace and he can actually you know defend... I think these are more critical. Also what leadership does he bring? Just because he is English and shouts a lot doesn't make him a leader. A dominant CB like Koulibaly can organise a defence without that. That being said Smalling, Rojo and Jones can all go. Koulibaly and Ake would be good additions but Maguire is already playing at his level.
  40. Jan 14, 2019

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    You guys talk about this "need a leader" stuff way too much but, against Spurs there was clearly someone who was constantly shouting, trying to get everyone to push up. And that player was Lindelof.