Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by wr8_utd, Feb 1, 2011.
Like Pique he would never have stayed.
A man mountain like hope
Not necessarily true, fabregas is a much better player and was a player who we had a space for in the team. When piqué was coming through we had rio and vidic in top form, plus Evans was looking excellent so there was a lot of competition. Fabregas could have slotted right into midfield and if he was winning titles here he might not have gone. but yeah at some point he probably would have left
I'm thinking more like a coach. Who better for the young aspiring midfielders to learn off?
First Puyol mothering Piqué now Abidal with...Cesc
Thoughts on Fabregas?
Extremely poor second half to the season for me.
For the money he cost you expect him to be one of those players who will step up and make something happen, but he seems to be struggling.
He cost his side tonight wish some poor finishing, especially his miss kick 6 yards in front of a gaping goal
Fabregas played like an Arsenal player tonight.
I thought he was shocking tonight
It's just weird that Guardiola would play him so much therefore forcing Iniesta out wide.
Yeah not good at all last night. I haven't seen much of Barca in the last month but before that he was outstanding in my opinion.
Very good season thus far (but then again everyone knew he'd fit Barca like a glove), but agreed that his performance levels have dropped over the last couple of months. Incidentally - didn't he just get back recently from a fairly long injury? Could explain his slopiness/rustiness.
I'm more disappointed with Sanchez this season, tbf, especially in Villa's absence, he hasn't really stepped up his performances.
Yep, dont get it myself specially since he hasnt been firing on all cylinders.
Why on Earth is Fabregas playing as some kind of left forward?
Looks shoehorned into the side.
He looked good early in the season playing high up the field, he looked like the perfect foil for Messi. Add to that he had a bit more aggression going forward than other Barca players, and he looked like the ideal candidate to make them that bit more unpredictable. With Villa injured, and Alexis not bedded in, Fabregas did a good job.
In terms of how Fabregas fits, Iniesta doesn't score enough goals to do what Fabregas was doing going forward. Playing Iniesta and Messi in the middle, in tight games where Messi drops back to find space, doesn't create as many chances as Iniesta going wide.
As the Fiver put it today, he's Barcelona's Juan Veron. Great player, class abundant, but shoe horned into the best midfield in the world to no one's benefit.
He just had a poor game but he's had a good season by all accounts.
Classic knee jerking journalism based on one game though.
Doesn't help with Villa out, if he was fit then Iniesta would be back central i think.
Thats a great analogy.
Lets be honest, hes NOT having a great season.
He was never linking up the way you'd expect a player in that team too, he was however getting amongst the goals.
Now hes really not contributing anything other than to force Iniesta wide and actually increase the chances for the opposition
I don't think that it's really true at all. Unlike Veron with us, Fabregas does actually fit into the Barcelona midfield system. He was brought up playing their style of football so knows how to do it. All I'd agree with is that he shouldn't always be playing if Xavi and Iniesta are both fully fit.
In future years though, he's going to become more valuable for them. Xavi will probably struggle more and more to keep playing all the time, so they're going to need to rotate a lot more often.
He had a great start to the season, but has had a poor post christmas period. So in the final washup, his stats will look decent, but the fact of the matter is...he is just a little bit lost now in that lineup.
Unfortunately he and Barca will figure it out sooner rather than later
Never understood why they wanted him in the first place. He isnt similar to Xavi either as far as their style's concerned so he was never going to eventually take over from him. That'l be either busquets or one of their masia guys i reckon. Its still a great acquisition at the price they got him for though so i doubt they are complaining. But yeah, moving iniesta out to the left to accommodate him in the middle is a tad daft.
It IS knee jerk journalism and a lazy comparison, though to be fair The Fiver is a comedy supplement, and almost all comparisons are, but there's truth in it. That midfield was (and certainly still is) the best in football, as our Becks, Keane, Scholes, Giggs one was, and he was a marquee signing intended to improve them at the height of their power when they didn't need improving.
He fits into their system far better than Veron did, and unlike Veron, he's a ready made long term successor rather than a peak player plonked in, but like Veron he's not a back up, he has to be played occasionally. And is too good not too be. But should he be?
He's got 17 goals and 11 assists from central midfield for them. In his debut season. If Veron had managed those kind of stats in his first year at United he'd probably still be playing for us now.
I haven't watched Barca all season and Fabregas does seem to be going through a bit of a dip in form in the last few weeks but I don't think you could ask much more from him.
It's nothing to do with Cesc as a player vs Veron the player tbf. We all know he's the shazbot, but it's not helped Barca to have too many great midfielders when the balance they had was perfect.
Dont think he was that bad.. on another day he could have had 1 goal and 1 assist had sanchez finished his chance.
Even when he was racking up goals, there were complaints about how he was too "direct" for Barcelona's style of play.
I've never seen him as a Xavi, Iniesta, or Busquets type of player. He's much more cut throat than them, so he sticks out. Having Messi playing central doesn't help matters either.
its really misleading though.
almost all of his goals were earlier in the season.
1 or 2 goals in 2012, and since christmas hes been poor, I wouldnt even say hes been decent.
At times hes broken up the Xavi , Iniesta partnership, you could see it against Chelsea with Iniesta shunted wide left.
I think its ridiculous on Guardiolas part, but who am I to criticize a guy who has won what he has!
This is true.
I guess it harks back to the the debate we've been having on here for years about replacing Scholes and Giggs. Do you get their replacements on board when they finally call it a day, or a year or two beforehand?
Barcelona are looking to bed in Fabregas before Xavi starts to go on the wane but this means they need to find a way to play them both in the same team. On balance, I'd say it's a good "problem" to have.
His style is very different to Xavi though, he's far more direct. Given thir style of play and how they look to control the middle, i dont think he'l be taking over from Xavi at all. With alcantra their already, they didnt even need him. Just a local lad a fantastic midfielder who Guardiola bought back. He does love his CMs does guardiola.
I do think its a great acquisition though. they got him on the cheap and he's quality. with time, his incisive passing and his willingness to play the early ball will come in very handy.
Oh definitely. Though tbf I'm pretty sure that's what everyone said about Veron. The fact he's a baby barca boy makes a huge difference though.
Fwiw, though I'm probably remembering it nostalgically, I always thought Veron would've prospered here had he not had to "compete" for his place with Scholes and Becks. Plus free kicks were one of his specialties, which he was never going to get much chance at around Beckham.
Again when he went to Chelsea, he went when they were buying up the whole country. He was never given any kind of creative freedom in England. This is possibly entirely ill remembered though. He could've just been not suited to the league.
Yeah. So he's sort of competing with 3 players for the kind of creative role he had at Arsenal.
Again, I'm sure they'll work it out eventually. cnuts.
He might seem that way, coming from a fast-paced league and adapting to a team that is incredibly un-direct in the way they play. He's shown at Arsenal, though, that he's well capable of dictating play in the way that Xavi and Scholes like to do.
I've often thought he's probably the one player above all that are out there who I'd most like to replace Scholes at United. Never going to happen though. Oh well.
Ofcourse he's capable of doing it, quality player and he's very young, he could do it very well too given time. But, what am saying is that its not really the best way to use him. his final ball and vision is fantastic, he always manages to create chances even when he has a poor game. that ball vs chelsea for sanchez for example, chipped over the defence, quality even though he was having a bad game. Thats just the best way to use him i feel, no point shoe horning him into Xavi's position. Thiago could do it i feel, or perhaps someone else from la masia.
Thing is people need to understand that not every future midfielder coming out of La Masia is going to be another Xavi or Iniesta. Those are two players that are once in a generation midfielders and no matter how hard you drill it into kids, it will be virtually impossible to replicate their careers. Even Fabregas regardless of how good he is, had the Arsenal way drilled into him for the past 8 years. He had the basics drilled into him, but his trade as a top level footballer was taught at Arsenal.
I'd almost put money on the fact that the likes of Thiago and co will probably leave Barcelona in 3-4 years time when the next supposed crew of youngsters come through. It may be a fantastic youth development program, but you don't just churn out Xavi and Iniesta's like they're going out of fashion and you're the new trend setters. Otherwise why even buy Fabregas if there are already better players within reach of the first team.
Squad depth? you cant rely on Xavi / Iniesta to be fit 60 games a year and still play at full pelt.
After those 2, thiago is really the only other creative outlet they have there.
Keita can do a job but is nowhere near as clever / as good in posession.
You cannot wait 5 years for a player to develop just because they show promise, if they are good enough they will force there way in.
How is it possible to force your way in against the two best midfielders in the world?
Fabregas as a squad player is absolutely ridiculous. Probably reason why many argue he's being shoe horned into that side. At some point somebody will have to make way, which is the benefit of having the likes of Thiago as squad players, because at a young age, they're happy just to be around.
Like O'shea, good enough to fill in but not good enough to take to the lead 'except for 08/09'. Until of course they become good enough.
The only reason I can think of as to why Fabregas was even bought was that this was to be Xavi last season as a first eleven starter and that it was a transition phase.
I wasn't sure why they wanted him at first, but I can now see why they bought him. He does fit right into their system. Admittedly, he's not the same as Xavi and he's not as good as him either, but Xavi is one of the greatest central midfielders ever in my opinion. You're never going to get a direct replacement for him when he does call it a day, so to bed someone who's still very good into the team a couple of years earlier is a good idea.
It may seem bad when they're struggling to accommodate all of those midfielders at the moment, but what happens if Xavi suffers a leg break in his next game and is out for 11 months? Suddenly, the acquisition of Fabregas doesn't seem like a bad one after all, does it?
No but purchasing a player on the potential risk does. That's like buying Van Persie because we're afraid Rooney might break his foot again. I'm sure that when Barca bought Sanchez they were not inclined to think that Villa would break his leg.
I understand what you're getting at though as there are many variables, but the last bit is not the reason you'd buy Fabregas. You buy him to replace somebody on a permanent level.
From what I've seen he's played a lot further forward than Veron ever did, allied with Barcelona's dominance of territory which in itself is worth another 20 yards.
He's even played as a striker/false 9 at times.
Xavi is going to be there for atleast a couple more years. They already have Thiago waiting on the wings and they seem to manufacture midfielders at La Masia. Am not saying they'd directly replace Xavi's quality, thats unlikely to happen but given Barca's recent track record with youth products, i'd put my money on whoever comes through being very good.
I just dont see fabregas playing as deep as Xavi does and being given the job to orchestrate things from deep. He's much better off playing close to the final third where he does his best work.
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