Chelsea CL winners, City PL winners....is it all over for the integrity of football?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Crustanoid, May 19, 2012.

  1. May 20, 2012

    Chabon Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,291
    I think it's important to put those big signings in context. With Veron, admittedly, we had a crazy summer, buying Ruud for big money at around the same time. However we'd literally spent nothing for nearly two years by that point, despite winning two league titles, a European cup, being paid a fortune to go to Brazil and just generally making an absolute fecktonne of money. We saved up for that ridiculous spending spree, and helped finance it by selling Cole and Stam for big money.

    With Rio, Rooney and Berbatov each was effectively our only signing the summer they were bought. Again, we saved up for the big signings, and took a big risk by investing in one special player, where other clubs spent just as much, or even more, on several purchases in one go. There is simply no comparison to be drawn between ourselves and City and Chelsea.

    edit: To elaborate on this a bit. One of my favourite examples of the above is from the summer of 2004. Liverpool spent £39,800,000 on Djibril Cisse, Josemi, Luis Garcia, Xabi Alonso, Fernando Morientes and Scott Carson. Manchester United spent £27,000,000 on Wayne Rooney.
  2. May 20, 2012

    NoLogo Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    10,382
    Location:
    I can't remember why I joined this war.
    Worst and most undeserved CL winner in the history of football.

    Disgusting to see a team win the CL final that didn't play football for 120 minutes and still somehow managed to win it.

    The only players that deserved this win are Cech for saving their asses on countless times in the semi final and in the final and for Drogba for being there when it counted the most.

    Also Robben has to be the most useless player in important games I have ever seen.
  3. May 20, 2012

    Randall Flagg Worst of the best

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,932
    Location:
    What about Phil?
    We won the European Cup after spending big on Yorke, Stam, Blomqvist and Berg.
  4. May 20, 2012

    Waltraute She-Devil

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Messages:
    6,135
    Location:
    Ihr Licht wird hell, ihr Stern geht auf...
    Randall, while I agree completely it's bad form moaning about the money, it's not as if we're obliged to lose every sense of rationality when we're discussing the general impact of owners like ADUG or Abramovich.

    Blomqvist & Berg! :lol:
  5. May 20, 2012

    Red Dreams Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2003
    Messages:
    34,172
    Location:
    Across the Universe....from Old Trafford.
    Those using transfers as a way of comparing United to City and Chelsea are totally missing the point.

    United, Liverpool and Arsenal have earned everything they have achieved over the years.
  6. May 20, 2012

    Randall Flagg Worst of the best

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,932
    Location:
    What about Phil?
    £5mill on Berg mid season was a big signing at the time for any side to make.

    Blomqvist was well known throughout Europe and was also a big singing.

    Things have changed now obviously as far as transfer fees are concerned. But back then (even though it was only 12 years ago) We spent big in our treble season.
  7. May 20, 2012

    Randall Flagg Worst of the best

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,932
    Location:
    What about Phil?
    I completely agree with this. I dont like the way Chelsea and City have gotten where they have.

    But the way football had gone with PL and CL cash, there was no other way they ever could have gotten to where they are now.

    That is the argument. If not for these owners we would have probably dominated even more than we have and other sides would not really have stood a chance.

    We got extremely lucky we began our success at exactly the right moment.
  8. May 20, 2012

    Chabon Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,291
    Same again though, after the initial outlay that put together the first title winning team, we only spent what we earnt. Our net spend between the start of the premier league and the summer of 1998 was -£40,000. We spent big in 1998 having saved up for it. That's the tale of United's spending throughout Ferguson's time at the club, we sometimes go big, but it tends to be in isolation. There's no greater example of that than when we spent 60 million quid over two summers after winning the 2007 title, and then sold Ronaldo and effectively shut up shop until last summer.


    It came after we'd sold Pallister for 2.5m and Poborsky for 3mil. We sold to buy a lot in the 90s. We spent huge on Andy Cole (possibly our biggest ever signing, if consider in relative terms) and recouped the entire fee by selling Ince a few months later.
  9. May 20, 2012

    Randall Flagg Worst of the best

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    33,932
    Location:
    What about Phil?
    Sorry I was just making the point that you said we spent nothing and in that period we won a European Cup.

    I much prefer the way we have gone about our business. Anyone would.

    But my point is, it had gotten to the stage were clubs simply were never going to catch us, unless they got rich owners.

    Its the way football has gone. We really need to start accepting it, we have a lot of bitter and pissed off fans after the past 2 weeks. I am one of them, but we need to move on from the money issues.
  10. May 20, 2012

    adexkola American Arse

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    18,324
    Location:
    Tristate. In the street like a hooker's feet
    Exactly.
  11. May 20, 2012

    Chabon Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,291
    Yeah, I phrased it badly. I just mean that prior to that huge summer of Seba and Ruud we'd spent less than we'd sold for two years.
  12. May 20, 2012

    Red Dreams Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2003
    Messages:
    34,172
    Location:
    Across the Universe....from Old Trafford.
    It is true the advent of Satelite tv changed everything. But I disagree that without what has happened at City and Chelsea is the only way for other teams to compete.

    Currently other than us Liverpool and Arsenal also have huge world wide followings. The way to even things up is to ensure a fair distribution of all this money coming in to the game. I point the finger at the FA. It goes beyond just sharing the cake. But making sure a sizable chunk goes to investing in the grassroots of the English game.

    Allowing a club to continue to run losses should never be allowed.

    That will eventually kill the game.

    Its only a matter of time before the Glazzers accept a an obscene price for the club. That day will be the beginning of the end of our club.
  13. May 20, 2012

    Waltraute She-Devil

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Messages:
    6,135
    Location:
    Ihr Licht wird hell, ihr Stern geht auf...
    But it's immaterial whatever we spent, Randall.
    Abramovich and ADUG are just playing at pretendy-fun-times football.

    You know the fundamental difference.
  14. May 20, 2012

    Chabon Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,291
    How do we know that though? Arsenal were well on their way to becoming as big and successful a club as us. Liverpool have always outspent us. Who's to say a Newcastle or a Spurs wouldn't have been able to use Champions League money to build a squad that could compete for the title? Or even the pre-Abramovich Chelsea, who for all their financial problems were regularly qualifying for Europe. We'll never know, because Abramovich bought himself a permanent spot in the top four.

    As for us being bitter, we have the least reason of anyone to be bitter. We can compete with these two monsters, literally nobody else can. It's just the City aspect of it that makes it irritating for a United fan.
  15. May 20, 2012

    Bryan_Munich Aka RichieRich12

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    11,718
    Location:
    In Arsène We Rust
    Made me chuckle.
  16. May 20, 2012

    Siorac Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    9,395
    Location:
    16th century
    And £6m on Alan Smith and £7m on Gabriel Heinze. In addition to the £13m spent on Louis Saha in January.

    Also, Liverpool signed Morientes and Carson in 2005.
  17. May 20, 2012

    RedDevilCanuck Quite dreamy - blue eyes, blond hair, tanned skin

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,002
    Location:
    The GTA
    Gutted.

    We are a better side than Chelsea and have proven that a few times over the last year or so.

    Valencia has made Cole look like a pub player and Chelsea's midfield couldn't even handle Giggs/Carrick.

    We are also a better side than Bayern who looked very average and short of ideas against Chelsea.

    And I'm also sick of people saying how much further ahead Real Madrid are ahead of us. Yes Barca are but Real? I'm confident we would beat them in a knockout game or 2 legged tie.

    City's starting 11 is better than us and they got lucky all season with injuries. We will be back. Just a midfielder or two away from being back in the final where we belong.
  18. May 20, 2012

    Siorac Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    9,395
    Location:
    16th century
    We should focus on getting the better of Basel first, then we can start thinking about Real Madrid.
  19. May 20, 2012

    Waltraute She-Devil

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Messages:
    6,135
    Location:
    Ihr Licht wird hell, ihr Stern geht auf...
    That's all you need to know, right there.

    I'm not going to be tasteless enough to spell out what I think Roman Abramovich deserves, but it certainly isn't a European Cup.
  20. May 20, 2012

    decorativeed Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    6,782
    Location:
    Chorlton
    How? They would not even have qualified in 2008/09 when they won it under the old rules.

    I think the old European Cup was a perfectly exciting, entertaining and prestigious competition. Expanding it to the modern Champions League has been hugely detrimental to the national leagues of each UEFA country.
  21. May 20, 2012

    SteveJ all-round nice guy

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    33,618
    Location:
    Exactly where Nazi Germany started
    A subscription to Priest Magazine, perhaps? :D :D

    [​IMG]
    'Exclusive: Pope signs for Roma'
  22. May 20, 2012

    NoLogo Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    10,382
    Location:
    I can't remember why I joined this war.
    The depressing part about all this is that we will probably have to endure Shitty winning the CL as well during the next 10 years.

    I want Liverpool, Arsenal and Leeds back as our main rivals and not those two damned plastic clubs.
  23. May 20, 2012

    Siorac Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    9,395
    Location:
    16th century
    I want Liverpool as far away from us as possible. The 2009 title race was the worst of my experience as a United fan; the prospect of them beating us to the PL title was unbearable.

    I want Aston Villa and Norwich back as our main rivals :drool:
  24. May 20, 2012

    Cheesy Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    15,186
    Location:
    Scotland
    As soon as Newcastle and Tottenham got into the top 4, the likes of us, Liverpool and Arsenal would've probably signed some of their better players and put them in their place again. That's what happens. The occasional side would've maybe challenged, but it would generally be the same 3 sides year after year which does eventually start to get boring to be honest.
  25. May 20, 2012

    Edmeiste Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    7,107
    Location:
    In a land far far away....playing Fifa
    I would say no Art and I'm not kidding you. Although, throughout our history we've had individuals put money into our club to simply sustain it. That's different from assembling a squad out of oil money. I wouldn't be happy if that happened because we've never really been about buying the top players.

    Yes, we have tried as a matter of improving the team but at the same time, what this club has been built on is our belief in youth and bringing them through with also some great attacking football to show for that. I think a great trait of our club is that no matter what, we never give up. We just keep on going. That was best exemplified when we won the cup in 1968. It was a magical moment and it laid the foundations for the club. I would really advise looking at iczster's thread in the Manchester United forum and learning about some of the club's history. There's a lot of valuable lessons there.

    Having some sugar daddy come in and do what City is doing now would be an insult to everything that others worked so hard to establish in this club. I understand the hunger for instant success as that seems to be the name of the game. Nonetheless, it shouldn't mean you lose sight of what made the club the way it is today.
  26. May 20, 2012

    Edmeiste Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    7,107
    Location:
    In a land far far away....playing Fifa
    I'm sorry but that has to be one of the dumbest things I've seen on this forum. What did you think when we blooded in the youngsters starting in 94/95 and then eventually won the title. Your argument wreaks of laziness
  27. May 20, 2012

    Twigginater WUM Alert!

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    9,228
    Location:
    Obertans #1 fan.
    Good.

    I like it this way.

    Look at our rivals at the moment. They stand for everything wrong with football, greed, throwing money at a problem and an all around disgusting disregard for building a football club a proper way.

    Not us. We're the last ones. We're the ones hamstrung by bad owners, hamstrung by our wage structure, not able to compete with the others.

    But hang on a minute, we lost this years title by about 45 seconds. There is no reason logically we should be so close to City, and so far ahead of Chelsea, wages almost always decide a league finish, yet our fantastic club is still up there.

    So let them win it. It's hollow. And they'll fade. We won't. We're the good guys now, the only hope left for the sport.

    Can't wait to destroy City soon
  28. May 20, 2012

    Edmeiste Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    7,107
    Location:
    In a land far far away....playing Fifa
    goo, I respect your opinion but it was more than just that. Denis already responded but it's not even close to what's happening now. Were chelsea or city in danger of being bankrupt?
  29. May 20, 2012

    RedDevilCanuck Quite dreamy - blue eyes, blond hair, tanned skin

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,002
    Location:
    The GTA
    i am not reddevilcanuk he left his computer open so do not get mad at him get mad at ME!

    why are you all complaining about another team winning a trophy? you guys are MANCHESTER UNITED(BIGGEST SPORTS TEAM IN THE FREAKING WORLD) for gods sake! only you guys are allowed to win trophies?? BORING!!!!...times change you have to deal with it...CFC--CHAMPIONS OF EUROPE!!!
    UNITED WON NOTHING!

    THE GAME IS FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!
  30. May 20, 2012

    Edmeiste Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    7,107
    Location:
    In a land far far away....playing Fifa
    oh my........................
  31. May 20, 2012

    ghaliboy Snitches on Tom Hagen

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Messages:
    10,677
    Location:
    Sydchester
    Then all is lost.
  32. May 20, 2012

    adexkola American Arse

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    18,324
    Location:
    Tristate. In the street like a hooker's feet
    :lol:
  33. May 20, 2012

    Team Brian GB Baby Cameron loves X-Factor

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    16,249
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    To all people in this thread, this is my response...


    [​IMG]
  34. May 20, 2012

    RK Full Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    15,420
    Location:
    Attacking Midfield
    I don't think it's possible for Chelsea fans to have the same satisfaction of winning it as we did.

    We were acknowledged as genuinely the best team in Europe the last time we won it - added pride to have won the Premier League to qualify, and again as we won the Champions League. We got to spend the next season singing "Champions of England, Champions of Europe".

    Neither set of fans will actually know the true answer, but it's easy to believe the above.
  35. May 20, 2012

    Count Orduck Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    Messages:
    6,109
    Location:
    An Englishman lost on the Emerald Isle.
    At least it's not a picture of Terry with the cup.
  36. May 20, 2012

    ghaliboy Snitches on Tom Hagen

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Messages:
    10,677
    Location:
    Sydchester
    Even then would you expect them to come straight out and dump 1bn on players/wages?
    That is one of the questions you need to ask in this scenario.

    Club security is more important than buying all the talent up. Surely?
  37. May 20, 2012

    Team Brian GB Baby Cameron loves X-Factor

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    16,249
    Supports:
    Chelsea

    Nobody expected us to win it, all logic determined we should get nowhere close to winning it and Chelsea fans could not possibly comprehend that this could happen more than a few short weeks ago.

    Triumph through adversity is always going to trump triumph through expectancy in the same way it will always be sweeter for Man City winning the league in turning around the final game of the season in injury time as opposed to waltzing to the title weeks before the end.
  38. May 20, 2012

    B20 Giggsy! Giggsy! Giggsy!

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2003
    Messages:
    17,096
    Location:
    Moyes. Ought. Not. Go.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  39. May 20, 2012

    Team Brian GB Baby Cameron loves X-Factor

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    16,249
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    No but this is.

    [​IMG]
  40. May 20, 2012

    RK Full Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    15,420
    Location:
    Attacking Midfield
    Our win had both.

    The knowledge of being the best team in Europe, yet coming back from the brink of losing it.

    Besides, I disagree. Yes the immediate ecstasy of winning in an underdog fashion is unbeatable, but once that has died down the deep satisfaction lies stronger with the best.

Share This Page