Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Reiver, Mar 3, 2019.
Lindelof is better. I mean Mike is good and all that, but Lindelof is better. For me, at least
Aye definitely is. Think Lindelof could be excellent next to a solid centre back like Koulibaly.
Most of those are significantly better than Smalling.
Honestly, why limit it to Smalling?
A better thread at this point would be, "What Utd players start at any other Top 6 club".
Much of our first 11 would surely be within the debate...?
Being the best in the worst United team in 30 years doesn't mean he's good enough for us.
Maybe you argue you keep him over Rojo and Jones, and you'd be right.
But I'd absolutely hate to fall into the trap that he's good enough as a starter for us again.
Lovren better than Smalling?
Need a lie down.
Good player in the "comes in and when Pallister is injured" role, but he's never a started for a side aspiring to be at the top of the European game. He's got a lot of good qualities, but he falls way short of what we should be looking at as a Manchester United leader at the back.
For all their flaws, Luiz in Chelsea’s CL winning run and the 17-18 season, and Lovren at the World Cup performed at a level Smalling couldn’t dream of.
Stones being better than Smalling is a no brainer, Sánchez is 22 and has the potential to be way better and I wouldn’t say Sokratis is any worse.
Face it, he’s an absolutely bang average player.
He's had a higher consistency-level in his performances than all the players in question the last 4 years. Tough claim to say that Lovren has ever reached a level Smalling just could dream about. I've heard a lot of arguments undervaluing Smalling but never heard anyone overrate Lovren in the process before.
He's better than all.
How many of our players would get into another top six team ?
Smalling certainly wouldn't nor Jones either and I'd say quite a few more as well
In my opinion the most underrated player in todays football. And I also think he is in top 5 of central defenders in the PL right now. And I can only think of VVD who is clearly better.
Liverpool: VVD and Lovren/Matip. Smalling would start.
Man. City: Laporte and Otamendi/Kompany. Smalling would fight Kompany for a starting spot.
Spurs: Alderweireld and Vertonghen. Smalling would be first reserve.
Arsenal: Koscielny and Sokratis. Smalling would start.
Chelsea: Luiz and Rudiger. Smalling would start.
People have no idea of building a squad within the imposed limitations. Smalling would be snapped up by any of Chelsea, Arsenal or Spurs if available. Solid, English player.
I get our fringe needs improving, preferably with some top class players to bring the overall level up, but I do wonder how people explain the doublethink of many of our squad being shit and not good enough for our rivals, when we find ourselves competitive with them again. Who do people think is playing for Arsenal and Chelsea and Spurs?
Barca's best chance apart from the goal, was that Coutinho effort which de Gea did well to save with his legs.
The reason Barca had that attack was because they got a throw in in the middle of the field.
That throw in came after Smalling, under minimal pressure, couldn't see Fred for a simple pass and in stead just hoofed it out of play.
A trivial thing for most, but we really do struggle holding on to the ball, and the play from the back is poor. We give up so many extra attacks, so many extra needless chances because Smalling and co cannot pass under any pressure.
Top teams just don't accept those kinds of defenders anymore, Arsenal's defence is shocking but the other 4 wouldn't tolerate him.
He’d start for most and is our best defender despite his limitations.
Smalling is worthless. He is not even premier league level. The guy simply bribed his way through Managers like Ferguson, Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole for the last eight years and is singlehandedly responsible for the club doing so poorly in the league and CL. He is a penalty waiting to happen every match. When VAR came on, we were so happy the charlatan will be exposed now. But his deviousness found a way around VAR as well. And the ignoramus fraud has no respect for football's mythologies and hierarchies. Look at how bloodied the nose of the icon, Messi in the last match! Sell him. I am sure none of the top 6 will be interested in him. Except, maybe, just maybe, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, City and Liverpool.
He just marked out Messi, Suarez, and Mbappe out of the game. But not good enough for "European Game". Just look at Pallister who was a beast in our European games.
Yeh.. any of the CB in PL Top 6 could easily do that, and even more. Logic.
He was also dropped from the England squad and dropped this United side several times over the last few years. Like a lot of our players, he's a passenger. He'll have a great game every now and then, in a Mikael Silvestre style, and you'll forget his glaring flaws until the next time he under performs. He's not an elite defender. He's a good one, but he's simply not a top level one.
Smalling is a decent squad player and nothing more.
Jones should have been sold years ago, along with Rojo.
The state of our defense is really something else.
Imagine, he dominated Messi and pressured Suarez into uselessnesss and nobody's opinion changed.
Hmmm national team argument. Carrick was dropped from England squad fro Gareth Barry. And England preferred Gerrard in midfield to Scholes. Do you think McGuire could do what Smalling has done in his career? marking out Kane, Hazard, Messi, Suarez, and Mbappe out of their games?
And the fact that you think SMalling is on SIlvestre level, maybe rating CB is not your strong point.
On whether Guardiola, Klopp, Sarri, Emery, or Poch would prefer to have him in their starting 11? Or whether he is a very good defender?
Carrick was dropped from the England squad for Owen Hargreaves, Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard etc. Chris Smalling was dropped for Phil Jones in a straight choice between the pair. I mean christ. Also, did I say Smalling is on the level of Silvestre? Maybe interpretation of using an example isnt your strong point.
"He's a good one, not an elite one." Yeah, I'm really burying Chris Smalling there ...
See, you also think Phil Jones is better than Smalling, because the former is in NT. Man,..
Smalling compared to our other top rivals most played CB's Last season and this..
Top table is this season
Bottom table is last season
He's performing to a very high level, He's arguably our most consistent performing center back until Lindelof's recent upturn in performances.
Again, never said that did I? I dont pick the England side, but the fact he isnt straight into that squad tells a story of his career. I mean, try and interpret my words correctly. You've been on here long enough.
I don't see why not? Smalling was labeled Smallenbeuer during LVG regime, a manager who was notorious on ball possession. He even got Players' Player of the Year. And that's a fact.
You used the "Smalling wasn't even picked for NT" as argument. I contested that a flawed argument/reasoning. It's as simple as that.
Smalling is not always consistent, but you can see that he listens to critique. He also learned how to avoid countless injuries which is good, too.
Southgate can blame himself for putting Jones against Hazard and not giving Smalling one chance.
I think Guardiola and Sarri won't, I think Klopp will - he partnered Hummels with Subotic who isn't a great passer - and I haven't seen enough Spurs or Arsenal but I think Arsenal especially could be improved with Smalling at the back.
And yes I do think he's a good defender- he has now had very good matches against Kane multiple times, Suarez, and a few against Aguero/Jesus.
Yes, playing out from the back. But I don't think the issue is with him. We require not just a better class of passing defender (Smalling, Jones, and Young, even Lindelof isn't special), but an actual strategy. In training they should work on off-the-ball movement and positioning to create the triangles to bypass pressure. There is no indication of that. The Young long ball seems to be the preferred strategy.
He's the only centreback we have who's capapble of putting in a performance that is of a level of a really top class defender. On that form I think anyone except City would play him, or at least he'd be able to play in their team quite easily. The problem is he has too many games where he performs like a clown instead. Against Barcelona for example he was reading the game brillliantly, aggressive, brave, mostly made the right decisions on the ball. Messi and Suarez got very little from him all night apart from one instanc ewhere I think Shaw had to bail him out, but against world class forwards that will happen.
Then however you go back all of one week to the Wolves game, and he's literally spinning round in a circle and rolling into the back of our own net with the ball, for no explicable reason. Not only that but at the end of the game you have to concede that this was one of his more credible attempts at defending.
Lindelof has been a lot better this season but I still think he has weaknesses and struggles in certain situations. Jones has the odd 30 minutes where he looks like the best defender in the world, but then even in the same game he'll boot the ball into his own goal and injure one of his team mates. Rojo is dead I think. Bailly had his soul destroyed and eaten by PSG.
In terms of the other top six sides. I think it's hard to argue that any of our defenders would make Arsenal's defending any worse. Rudiger starts regularly for Chelsea and he's basically black Phil Jones. City have decent defenders but defend by never letting the opposition get the ball. Liverpool have Van Dijk...Lovren is still at the cllub and at one point they were playing Fabinho at centreback. The grass isn't so green as people make out. There are a lack of world class centrebacks to go around.
The answer is still the same, I honestly don't see how some people here think he'd get a sniff at City, Liverpool or Spurs starting XI. Genuinely that part shouldn't even be in question.
If you look at Chelsea, it's another clear no because of how Sarri plays (if Sarri wasn't there it'd be more a debate) which leaves Arsenal. I personally think he would get into Arsenal's first eleven but that's it. I struggle to see much merit in him getting in anywhere else when most arguments are basically that he's athletic, good in the air and our most 'dominant' defender.
Good points as always, mate. If we sign de Ligt, I bet my left nut that he'll be partnered with Smalling in big games.
I don't know why anyone would want my left nut, but you just never know.
It’s not really overrating Lovren to say that he’s reached a higher level than Smalling. If Smalling’s consistency level over the past four years were anything like you suggest he wouldn’t have been constantly rotated with United’s other mediocre CBs (and even sometimes a non defender like Blind and complete chumps like McNair and Blackett) by multiple managers.
Have I walked into an alternate reality here or do people genuinely think Chris Smalling is anything more than an okay Premier League defender?
Smalling puts in 6/10 performances on a regular basis and manages to stay fit. That alone is enough for some fans to put him on a pedestal. Smallings ability with the ball at his feet severly limits our attacking play against defensive teams. He does put in outstanding performances in some matches. However, he is always a liability in defending with his shirt pulling and getting dragged out of defence. A key attribute for a defender should be consistency. The best Smalling played was under LVG and he had two DMs ahead of him. Ultimately, Smalling has only managed to stay at United for so long because he is English, his height, the rest of our defenders being injured and Woodwards incompetence.
His passing is tragic. He has to defer to someone else every time which slows us down.
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