Cleverly & Anderson

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Ramshock, May 7, 2012.

  1. May 7, 2012
    #41

    roseguy64 Full Member

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    As it stands, the major decisions are: Scholes' willingness to play another season, Fletcher's ability to get his illness under control so he can play, Pogba staying and whether we risk Anderson again. Carrick and Cleverley will be staying and so too Giggs so really whether we bring in a CM depends entirely on what we decide about those 4 players. 90% sure if all of them stay we won't sign a midfielder.
  2. May 7, 2012
    #42

    The Don Metrosexual Candy Shagger

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    First time I've found myself disagreeing with you but that is bullshit, Cheesy.
    Anderson is by far our most dynamic midfielder. When he gets a run of games he usually performs to a very high standard.

    He's a very good passer, he's got great skill and flalr, he very combative, a good ball winner/tackler and has good pace. He makes great, lung busting runs forward, with and without the ball.

    I personally think he's been very unfairly treated, he gets a decent run of games, starts to play well, then is left out. He is very much a confidence player, who needs to have a run of games to find his form but when he does, he is unplayable.
  3. May 7, 2012
    #43

    FreakyJim Full Member

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    I wish I've seen this Anderson you're talking about.
  4. May 7, 2012
    #44

    Ash_G Full Member

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    I think Anderson in a game where he has space to work with, run in to etc and is end to end, much like the early games we had against spurs and arsenal is a very good player to have, in games which are tighter and require more patience and neater passing such as the West Brom game, then he struggles. Always been his problem for me and a problem that can only be fixed by experience, something he won't get enough of until he gets a solid run of starts over a whole season which is his biggest problem. For Clev the jury is still out on how he can play in a two on a regular basis. Both good premier league players, but we can't say more then that yet.

    As a combo I don't expect to see much of them in our usual line up. I think you have to have a Carrick/Fletcher there, and then one of these guys depending on the opposition, for tougher games we might go with neither. If we can keep them fit though they have a lot to offer as they offer a lot of attacking threat and character to the middle with their enthusiasm and energy and give us options in a 3. However I think it would be a mistake to bank on them for next season given their respective injury records and the fact that they've basically both missed a year of development. We need another strong partner to play with carrick and give us another option when he's not playing well or injured.
  5. May 7, 2012
    #45

    Scrumpet There are no words

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    For me, there are no question marks about Anderson's ability. I think he is a great player for us when he is in form. Obviously the problem is that his injury record and the fact that it can take him a while to get in form when he returns from injury. I'd be gutted if we got rid of him any time soon. I think we'd regret it if we did.
  6. May 7, 2012
    #46

    The Taurean looks like a chipmunk

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    I would to love to see them in a 5 man midfield.
    CMs
    Cleverley------------------Anderson
    -------------Carrick
  7. May 7, 2012
    #47

    The Don Metrosexual Candy Shagger

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    If you haven't, you weren't watching him when he was in form. I'll admit, when he's bad he's really bad, but when he's good, outstanding. I don't recall him ever having a run of more than 10 straight games in a row since his early days. That's enough to feck with anyones game.

    Anderson given a good run in the side, is a midfielder you don't want to be without.
  8. May 7, 2012
    #48

    Ramshock Full Member

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    I dont understand this post, they played great together over 5 games why wouldnt that be a plus? You dont know how well they would have progressed together over the season if they stayed fit.
  9. May 7, 2012
    #49

    Theon Full Member

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    I don't expect them to play together in a two much at all, as considering we play 4-4-2 you need Carrick to provide some defensive stability whilst the other five can be more attacking.

    I definitely wouldn't give up on Anderson yet, he has shown more than enough potential to warrant at least another season, IMO. When he has space his passing is excellent and expansive, and he has the physique to be excellent defensively. As TDon said he is already combatitive in the tackle, he just needs to wise up positionally for me and select his runs forward a bit better. That will come with experience though.
  10. May 7, 2012
    #50

    Pexbo Takes body parts and sells them on Amazon.

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    I'd love to see this but loan striker? What about Welbeck? Rooney back on the left?
  11. May 7, 2012
    #51

    The Taurean looks like a chipmunk

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    Lone striker is something that I'm not too inclined either. Specially when you have strikers like Rooney, Welbeck and Hernandez.
    But this combination in a 4-5-1 combination should be interesting going forward. Having possession in midfield with good amount of creativity as well as pace and attacking ability out wide.
  12. May 7, 2012
    #52

    Amir Full Member

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    Anderson on form is a very good player. Problem is, there's no such thing as Anderson on form. It's on a day to day basis even if he's fit for a while. His form also dropped after the first few matches this season. We can't rely on him, we can't rely on Cleverley, We can't rely on Scholes and Giggs. The older lads can play a part, hopefully the young ones will force their way in. But we can't go into next season with any of them a designated starting midfielder in our best "middle two", no way.

    Carrick and Scholes are our best partnership, but that's not good enough. If we had a middle two who can hold their own against City - not dominate, I wouldn't go that far - we wouldn't have had to switch formations and try so hard to find a tactical way to limit the damange in the middle of the park.
  13. May 7, 2012
    #53

    gza the genius Full Member

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    You answered it in your first post, the pairing are simply too unreliable.

    Those 5 or so games were the only time they played together over the course of this entire season, do you really think we should be relying on them?
  14. May 7, 2012
    #54

    Cina Warrior Princess

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    If we pin our midfield hopes on Cleverley and Anderson next season (basically what we did this season) then our midfield is every bit as fecked again. Please god no.
  15. May 7, 2012
    #55

    Adebesi Full Member

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    Agree for the most part with TDon. Anderson is United quality but injury prone. But the injuries can't be dismissed and on that basis I don't factor him in as one of the cornerstones for us next season. Wouldn't sell, personally, but if we got a good offer I could see the logic in selling.

    Cleverley is more promising. Less proven but still seemingly a fantastic prospect. And his injury woes have not gone on so long we should write him off as a perennial sicknote yet. Reason to hope he can be crucial for us next season. And he'll need to be. That's the thing about our new transfer policy (this isn't a transfer but the principle applies): we can't compete with City. Chelsea, Madrid et al on spending so we need to develop talent. Cleverley is the kind of raw talent we need to come good if we will remain competitive.

    We need another player in that position, no doubt. But given we will only buy one top notch player in that position, best case scenario, then we need Clev to come good really. If Anderson did too, brilliant. But, you know.... Can't see that happening.
  16. May 7, 2012
    #56

    Cina Warrior Princess

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    Cleverley is only a year and a half younger than Anderson yet people are still going on about how he's got more much more time to develop and that we should be less worried about his constant injuries. Are these views masked by the fact that it was his first season in the team and Anderson's fifth or something?

    I do hold more faith in Cleverley but there's not that big a gap, and Anderson is still arguably the more talented midfielder of the 2 when he's playing at his best.
  17. May 7, 2012
    #57

    Cheesy Full Member

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    Sorry mate but I can't say I agree with a lot of what you're saying about him. I agree that he performs well when he gets a run of games, like most players, and that he's a good passer of the ball. The rest of it is subject to debate.

    I personally don't think he has great flair. When we brought him in we expected him to have some, but based on what I've seen of him before he's not a particularly skilful or exciting player to watch.

    He can be a good ball winner, and he can sometimes have pace, but his fitness has let him down and in his current state he's not very impressive when it comes to that. Whether that's his fault or not though, I'm not sure.
  18. May 7, 2012
    #58

    mattsville Full Member

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    Don't have any worries about Cleverly but I am increasingly concerned about the longevity of Anderson. Does'nt seem to have developed much, he always looks overweight, he is picking up lots of injuries and he has had a few off the field incidents picked up on by the press. He is still young, but I don't know whether I look at that as he has time to kick on or if we will still get a decent wad of cash for him.
  19. May 7, 2012
    #59

    Cina Warrior Princess

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    I don't think there's any point in selling Anderson. Partly because we'd get feck all for him. May as well stick with at this stage, only difference is that SAF should not be relying on him to 'come good' like he has done for the last few seasons.
  20. May 7, 2012
    #60

    Cheesy Full Member

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    It would free up the wage bill a bit to allow us to bring in a new central midfielder, and there would be no point in Fergie keeping him if he isn't going to feature in his plans at all. Of course though, we don't know whether that will be the case yet or not.
  21. May 7, 2012
    #61

    Cina Warrior Princess

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    How much is he even on? I can't imagine it's a lot. We need to buy midfielders, not get rid. For all his shortcomings, Anderson should still be given more time. He's 24. Giggs is 38, Scholes 37, Carrick 31, Park 30/31. No way we should be selling a 24 year old right now.
  22. May 7, 2012
    #62

    kouroux Full Member

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    The few games Cleverley and Anderson played at the start of the season gave many of us a bad estimation of actually good their partnership was.I mean yes the football was nice and flowing but it left the keeper too exposed because tactically and positionally the two of them aren't as good as Carrick.
    The entire team was on great form at the start of the season, it wasn't only about Anderson/Cleverley.
  23. May 7, 2012
    #63

    Cheesy Full Member

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    He won't exactly be on astronomical amounts, but I'd imagine he'd still be on a good £40k or so at least. If he's not going to feature in our plans, then that's a lot of money that will go to waste and could be freed up.

    I do think we have to get rid of some players. Yes, we need to buy in central midfield, but we need to buy because we lack quality, not depth. If we're going to sign someone new, then someone has to go. Even though Scholes is older, I still think he could be valuable for playing some games here and there.

    He may be relatively young at the age of 24, but that doesn't mean we have to keep him. Obertan was still young, for example, but we sold him because he was clearly quite rubbish. Obviously Anderson is much better than him and it's an insult to Anderson to compare him to Obertan, but it's just an example.
  24. May 7, 2012
    #64

    Cina Warrior Princess

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    How do we not lack depth in midfield? We were playing Rooney, Park and Jones there for some key games this season. 2 of our main players there are ancient. There's no depth to our midfield at all.
  25. May 7, 2012
    #65

    Cheesy Full Member

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    When all of our central midfielder -actual ones- are fit, we have Cleverley, Scholes, Giggs, Fletcher (if he returns), Anderson and Carrick, all of whom will be vying for a first team place, with Pogba in there as well. If we sign another one, then surely we have to get rid of someone?
  26. May 7, 2012
    #66

    MUFCgal Full Member

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    The football we played when they were the CM pairing was incredible, but yes we were too open defensively. We had to tighten up a bit in midfield, plus they both got injured.

    Honestly, I can't see Anderson lasting much longer here if he can't stay fit long enough.
  27. May 7, 2012
    #67

    Cina Warrior Princess

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    Good god, you're optimistic. It'll be a fecking miracle to get Fletcher back to anywhere near what he used to be. Pogba probably won't be here.

    Maybe let Scholes and Giggs retire then, instead of getting rid of a talented 24 year old?

    Carrick is the only reliable midfielder we have, and I say that based on this season, ignoring how poor he was for 2 seasons before that. The fact that we have 5 or 6 midfielders doesn't tell the whole story at all.

    I'm sorry Cheesy but it's really naive to think that the names you've listed there give 'depth' to our midfield.
  28. May 7, 2012
    #68

    Stack Leave Pep Guardiola alone!!!

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    Hasnt it been confirmed Pogba is now off to Juve?.

    The harsh reality now is that Scholes and Giggs are truely at the tail end and need cover/replacements. Also in all honesty I dont expect Fletcher back in time for next season and it will also take him time to get back up to his best if he does return.

    So we have Carrick, Anderson, Cleverly and then after that Park who can play in the middle but we are going to be pretty thin in the middle.

  29. May 7, 2012
    #69

    kouroux Full Member

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    The way I see is that Giggs in CM has got to stop, next season he should be slowly and slowly phased out
  30. May 7, 2012
    #70

    DevilRed Full Member

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    Well there is no guarantee that Pogba will be with us next season. It also wouldn't make much sense to sell Anderson considering how he still has years left on his contract and his price would be at an all-time low coming off injury.

    I think if we signed another central midfielder it will be because Fletcher and/or Scholes are not returning to the team. I just hope we make a signing that is different from the players we currently have on our books. If Fergie insists on playing a 4-3-3/4-5-1 in the big matches then instead of using Park lets bloody buy an attacking mid in the mold of a silva type (e.g. Kagawa).
  31. May 7, 2012
    #71

    Ash_G Full Member

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    Whether to sell ando or not is a tough call, we unquestionably need to add someone but we already have big numbers in the middle. Even if you count out Fletcher, we're left with carrick, scholes, giggs, clev, ando and pogba if he's still here. Add to that another midfielder who if we were to buy we'd expect to likely go in to the first 11 then that's a lot of squad players. I guess we could hope that if everyone stays reasonably fit we can get one more season out of scholes, and in that time an ando/clev can develop enough that we could rely on them much more, but still that's a lot of players to balance. I would't want to sell Ando, and hope we can keep him, but it'll tough. After the likes of Park and Berba who will likely leave, Ando is probably next on the list.
  32. May 7, 2012
    #72

    GCHQ Glazer Crevice Headquarters

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    Jesus Christ.
  33. May 7, 2012
    #73

    Cheesy Full Member

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    You say it'll be a miracle if we can get Fletcher back to full fitness, but looking at Anderson himself, I wouldn't say it's too far off a minor miracle that he'll be able to eventually play for us week in week out.

    Scholes and Giggs may be old, but I honestly think that both of them have another couple of years in them, Scholes especially. They may not be able to play every week, but over the course of a season, they'd probably still be able to play more games than Anderson. Age may be important, but it doesn't mean you just keep the younger one and get rid of the older ones, especially when one of them is on a completely different level to Anderson ability wise.

    I'd be willing to give him one more season, but we're in desperate need of a new centre mid and I really don't see Anderson being the answer to our prayers long term.
  34. May 7, 2012
    #74

    Cina Warrior Princess

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    Sorry but have you seen Giggs this season? He's been really abysmal in the middle in truth. Scholes had 6 months off, how will he cope for a full season? He was really poor last season after the New Year let's not forget.

    Also what the feck, Fletcher has been out for nigh on 2 years with a very rough illness and has played no football at all, he's also what? 29? Are you really comparing his situation to Anderson's? :lol:

    I agree with the bottom bit by the way, hence I said Anderson should stay, but Fergie shouldn't be relying on him to sort out our midfield issues.
  35. May 7, 2012
    #75

    gza the genius Full Member

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    When you say "left out", you mean injured. If he's fit and playing I can't really remember a time he was just "left out", he is simply injured and can't play.
  36. May 7, 2012
    #76

    Cheesy Full Member

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    He's not been as abysmal as you're saying. The thing with Giggs is that he's a player who always looks for the final pass, the killer ball so to speak. When it doesn't work for him though, it backfires. When it does, he's hailed as still being a genius. Things just haven't often gone his way this season, and the kneejerkers who don't see how he plays have turned on him. Scholes won't be able to play week in week out, however he'll still be able to play a large portion of games if he stays fit.

    I'm not directly comparing the Fletcher situation to the Anderson one. What I'm saying is that while, yes, it would be a miracle for Fletcher to return and be fully fit, it's mildly similar with Anderson, another injury prone player. Not completely similar, but mildly similar.

    I find it incredible that you don't think we can rely on two experienced veterans who won't be able to feature every week but can still play a lot and don't have too many injury problems, yet you insist we can rely on someone like Anderson, who seems to be constantly injured. Yes, he is younger, but that doesn't guarantee he'll be a top plaer at all.
  37. May 7, 2012
    #77

    devilish Full Member

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    If we sell ando now we will probably get peanuts for him. Id say loan the guy. If hes shit while pn loan feck it, if he does good...
  38. May 7, 2012
    #78

    Smores Full Member

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    There's little reason to get rid of Anderson in the summer. We may as well keep hold and hope
  39. May 7, 2012
    #79

    roseguy64 Full Member

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    It's all a bit too much speculation right now. As I said above, we'll have a clearer view once we know what Scholes and Pogba. Then we'll also have more knowledge on how Fletcher's progressing and can then decide if we need a new midfielder that Anderson is out.
  40. May 7, 2012
    #80

    Theon Full Member

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    What's the relevance of Pogba on whether we need to sign another midfielder or not? He's not going to be anymore than a back up. I'll be surprised if he even starts a game next season if he stays, so we shouldn't base buying or selling a midfielder on whether Pogba stays or leaves. It isn't relevant to next season.

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